Blame the Wii, in part, for the rampant amount of Casual Games. Some can be good, but most are just milking the 'casual game' trend.

I still play RPGs and such, though there is no guarantee I'll finish them. I like the longer stories, and slower pace. Though I do like high-action games too. I liked Resistance, at least....

Some people can't have a long game, either because they don't have the time, or just lack patience....

I fear the ADD generation (not necessarily actually have to have ADD/ADHD, just exhibit the qualities) will lead to a market saturated with short crappy games....Only a few longer games will make it (franchise games, like FF, and some lucky new releases)....

Well, at least in the case of the Wii console. That market runs rampant with shoddy games that hope to sell on Wii popularity and buzz words alone...

PS3 and 360 at least, should cater to at least a somewhat more serious breed of gamer...

Too bad the piece doesn't even bring in the Wii, and instead brings in extremely easy cop-out options for gamers by offering campaign modes to beat games in record time, that titles coming out today if used to the full extent of options can be beaten in a really short manner offering almost no replay value on the SP mode but relying on multi-player instead to give people a reason to keep coming back to the game.

Last I checked the Wii didn't churn out FPS shooters that looked nice but could be completed within a few hours of dedicated time by a remotely decent player. Yeah it has casual games but seeing as GTA isn't in the same market as the Wii and GTA isn't on the Wii the real thing being tackled here is that games in general are delivering less and less and relying on DLC and online modes to give "replay value" when such a term once referred to the ability of the game to bring players back to the original story again and again.

On top of that the casual games market has been going strong for probably over 30 years now, I doubt the Wii really contributes much to that, just like Popcap games wouldn't attribute their piles of money to the console, instead they'd attribute it to a market that has been feeding on their titles for a decade now.

Veg, I thought this article was about the fact that casual games ruining the reception of deeper games like RPGs and GTA. And honestly, you can blame the wii as it has brought a massive amount of the so called "Casual" gamers into console the world. We are not talking about PC right now. So seriously, just because someone has an opinion of something don't mean they are wrong.

Actually I'm pointing out that the article talks about this

"While titles like Heavenly Sword and Gears of War are impressive in their own right, developers seem to think it's okay to to whip out a campaign mode that won't last you two days while covering it up with multiplayer content -- that's called a "cop-out." "

and the first reaction is, ZOMG THE WII IS SUK.

There's a huge load of GOTY nominations or winners but many of them have really lacking single player. COD4 is impressive the first round through but beating it in 4 hours didn't leave me with much desire to replay the levels again, I jumped into online, ranked up to 55 over a span and that was it. The "amazing" replay wasn't the game but the online. It's like people are being trained to ignore perfectly fine single player experiences in favor of online chat rooms / deathmatch.

The attention span refers to people no longer caring about the mechanics that made gaming great and instead wanting instant gratification gaming with action that rolls with you from start to finish with few if any real challenges in the process.

RPG's are getting the boot and GTA is getting a swift kick, but it's not from Bejeweled, it's from existing games in the same age bracket pushing for less story and more blind action that spans a few hours.

You can blame the Wii if you want but casual gaming has existed longer than the Wii, the devs making the games have lived before the Wii and will continue to do so without the Wii, if Nintendo stopped making the system tomorrow these companies would still just find a cheap platform to produce these titles on and go from there. The casual gamers were there before the Wii, if you go and read internet statistics on casual gaming you'll see that it has been on a massive surge in the workplace, there's an entire casual gaming alliance based on finding the latest avenues to explore for bringing their IP's to new platforms. Pretending that casual gamers came up only with the Wii is absolutely silly though.

So seriously, just because you thought you knew about something doesn't mean that you can rant on at someone who does know something.

"So seriously, just because you thought you knew about something doesn't mean that you can rant on at someone who does know something."

And so it begins. Did I say Casual gaming came into being with the Wii? Nope. I said this article is talking about console games, really, so PC casual gaming is totally irrelevant and you are using it as a device to try and make yourself look correct.

I did not rant, either. Not sure were you got that from. But it is wrong.

"Pretending that casual gamers came up only with the Wii is absolutely silly though."

Nothing like modifying what I say, huh? Another thing, not sure what you mean GTA is getting a swift boot, it sold more copies on launch day than any other title in history. So if that is it losing against COD4, I am amazed.

You can't talk about a topic without considering the origin, being blind to the fact that casual gaming has been on the rise and has existed for ages on multiple markets makes it easy to slam a single console where it has emerged because of low cost development.

I'm not using it as a device to seem correct, I'm noting that this audience has been growing for years prior, and that it's not the spotlight of the issue, it's calling to question the developers of the games taking shortcuts to give gamers less of what they used to enjoy in favor of fast action and as many sequels as they can churn out.

I love how you assume that everything is around you. It's not. Did you even read the first post? Could you even attempt to think that maybe I'm talking about the person this started with before you decided to interupt? No? oh my.

It's not losing against COD4, it's losing because of what the author already wrote, if you bothered to actually read the article that is.

"There are those who have complained that the game is boring. Go ahead, hit up Google with "boring" and "GTA IV" as key search words, then click a few links to read about it."

It's not losing in sales but people are zoning out it seems with the game simply because it's not lightning paced with action and respawn. It's a new generation yet again but now they're based on short term reward games with fast interaction. Thats where the boot comes because GTA has fantastic sales and a great game system going on inside, but because new gamers aren't used to having to work for weapons and spend time in a game they're feeling rejection.

It's disturbing really, GTA for years has been a huge icon of gaming, I'd really hope that those gamers let up on things and really invest themselves in what the game has to offer because it's much better than the single player mechanics we're seeing right now.

I hate to break it to you, but Tallteen is actually correct. The Wii has the most games that try to sell using Buzz words and the Wii mote. There is no denying that fact, and try to deny it or call it false, is just plain idiotic.

The thing I do not understand is why you feel the need to be everyone's mother. he has his own opinion, and many gamers would agree. Just because you love your Wii to death does not mean you must assault others well founded opinions because of it. That is generally called flaming, trolling, or just being a Troll.

Again, I will say, that Tallteen is referring to consoles. Same as Lydia, I think, as GTA IV is console only.

A finale note, I am not disputing the fact that games can be criticized for having a good long story and satisfying gameplay. I never once did. I am objecting to your outright condescending attitude towards anyone, in this case Tallteen, who has a differing opinion.

I talked to Vegi about the article while writing it, so he has a decent idea of what I was getting at.

I personally disagree with tallteen, and his response is nothing like what I was trying to get at in the article. The Wii itself is a toy, in my eyes, and people who buy it may not necessarily purchase a 360 or a PS3. The target consumer groups are different, which is often why developers will not make any games for the Wii.. the demographic is too broad and unreliable (there have been many articles written on this topic).

It has nothing to do with my article, in which I was speaking against the brevity of games targeting actual "serious" gamers. I did not bring up any Wii or Nintendo games for a reason, because I think it's fine that there's a console out there for the casual group. I'm speaking in terms of the pricier next-gen machines, for which I expect there to be a higher standard.

Aha. I had figured perhaps, though hearing [reading] it helps. But like I said, I have no issue with the article, nor am I saying tallteen's post was 100% inline with the article. I just dis agreed with Vegi's attitude towards anyone who has a differing opinion or what have you.

And as it stands, I am plagued by the short cuts in SP right now, because I have no LIVE. So I fully agree with what you mean, I really do. And as it stands I am trying to obtain another game or two right now, stuff with good SP...have you played Iron Man yet? Or stuff like that. More open ended games with options, rather than short funellish games. Like Army of Two. *cringe*

I like that its causing controversy even for the people who love GTA.

In today's world everything has to have the "Dramatic Prairie dog" side of things. Something ALWAYS has to be controversial.

I think you wrote a very compelling article. However, it seems that you may be inadvertently oversimplifying. Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you wrote about the virtue of a game that takes its time and doesn't "hit you right in the face" with the action like Halo games or Gears. However, what the media, the forums and even Houser himself are surreptitiously glossing over (whether intentional or not) is that GTA IV is being criticized for other reasons that are far more honest than the criticisms you outlined. Oh, you are right, those criticisms are there as well. However, they are more from, as you put it, the ADD crowd than the true hardcore GTA fanbase.

I have posted this in the GTA IV forum many times, and I will reiterate it here: GTA IV is being criticized for straying from the feel and core gameplay mechanics that were present in III, VC, SA, VCS and LCS. Now I will also reiterate that I am NOT saying this is right or wrong, only calling attention to what seems to be a strangely overlooked, and far more honest critique than the ones Houser alluded to. The fact is that many longime fans of GTA are complaining because they feel that the game has been bogged down with realism to the point where a lot of the fun is sucked out and it becomes and exercise in tedium rather than an escape from reality.

Now, I know there are many people who just love to criticize and will invariably run into a forum and tear a game to shreds based on their own issues. However, there are people who simply disagree with the direction Rockstar has taken, and it is a little unfair to paint all of the GTA IV dissenters with the same brush. Again, I am not saying the criticisms are right or wrong, only trying to prevent the people who have more honest complaints from being ostricized from the forums for daring to criticize Almighty Rockstar! In the GTA IV (PS3) forum that I moderate, I see this controversy play out every day. I can actually see both sides of the issue. I see where GTA IV is an unbelievably groundbreaking, revolutionart game, and I also understand the complaints that range from the driving, Niko's running, the new police system and a myriad of other issues.

It seems to me that longtime GTA fans are split on this issue. Many herald the new GTA realism as the next great thing. Many complain that Rockstar has sucked all the fun out of the game and made it boring. I think that the word "boring" is being taken out of context to mean that people are complaining about the game being a movie-like experience. While I agree with you that this exists in the gaming community, it is not the whole picture. The fact is that GTA games have ALWAYS been like this, beginning with GTA III. The story always progresses through various stages of character development and slower starts, rather then thrusting the player into the middle of a balls-to-the-wall adrenalin rush of a game.

So, it is obvious that longtime GTA fans using the word "boring" are using it in an entirely different context than the "casual gamers" your article refers to.

Again, I am not taking sides on this issue. I am playing the game now, taking a break to write this response. However, I wanted to clearly demarcate the difference between gamers who know next to nothing about GTA and are criticizing IV, and veteran GTA fans who are criticizing IV. There is a very big difference.

Thanks, Chiro, I'm glad you found my article compelling enough to write a compelling comment for it. =)

Likewise, I don't disagree with what you say in your comment, and it does make sense. Other gaming franchises who attempt to pull away from their roots will get criticized like you say older fans are toward GTA IV.

Whatever the reasons for their distaste, I wish that they would take the time to understand GTA IV from a fresh perspective. I've played the other GTA's in the past, but what none as much as IV. In my opinion, IV really brings more to the table than most expect from a video game nowadays, and I really applaud R* for their efforts.

I agree with what Houser said. I believe games to be a great way to tell a story. A little action here and there is nice, but I like being able to be immersed in a game like the GTA series, Jade Empire, Kotor, Vampire Masquerade, The Elder Scrolls series, Mass Effect, ect. Truly, I really like GTA 4. Like some stories, fiction is not involved at all. Realism isn't all that bad actually. I kinda like how people in the game think of Niko as a crazy lunatic and stuff. In the other GTA's, all of the crazy shit you had to do was considered "normal". Dying really quickly isn't all that bad either. Now you actually have to take cover and use some strategy besides just using a better gun. I really like most of the free roam games. An example of an action packed free roam game with no story is Superman Returns >.>. God was that game boring! The combat was nice, but damn! There wasn't really any bloody story! They could've added a multiplayer deathmatch on that game and I still wouldn't have enjoyed it...

It's a damn shame that a lot of people nowadays
don't have the patience to enjoy such fantastic games.

I think the patience is lost when the game doesn't get any adrenaline going at all. Realism is what some people just don't want in a game. I'm a hardcore gaming fan, but you'll never see me play a game like GTA 4, or Gran Turismo, or any of those realistic games, mostly becuase real life doesn't have as much exciting action as fiction. I'm one of the gamers that don't hope for development in graphics in a game, but more for a great theme to base itself around.

I hate Gran Turismo as well.