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A great move on IBM's part -- now they'll only fall deeper into the hole of insignificance. The last time that I think IBM's desktop business mattered was ... oh, the mid 90's.

Windows is a reality of the corporate environment. You can't run a business easily and cost-effectively on Linux when the rest of your collaborative world uses Windows.

"Windows is a reality of the corporate environment. You can't run a business easily and cost-effectively on Linux when the rest of your collaborative world uses Windows."
You're right there Tomchu, but what if Windows ceases to be a reality? Back in the 80's *NIX was *the* reality in any corporate environment. Who would've thought that everyone would have a computer at home then? As I see it, this is just a small step towards a new revolution in software use. Once the enterprise/corporate world takes notice that you can use a Linux desktop system and not die trying, more and more will dare to take the step, and live happily ever after.

>You can't run a business easily and >cost-effectively on Linux when the rest of >your collaborative world uses Windows.

Thats what MS want us to believe - but you're so wrong Buddy. IBM has just been waiting to get Workplace fully deployed to finish getting rid of Windows. IBM already has over 15,000 Linux desktops deployed. That just shows that a large corporation can work effectively with a mix of desktop OS's in place. But now on to 100% Linux. Bye bye .doc and on to .odt,. IBM will never use XAML. This is the beginning of the end of MS as we know it. The arrogant illegal monopolist will just have to become an ordinary company amongst many others.

>You can't run a business easily and >cost-effectively on Linux when the rest of >your collaborative world uses Windows.

Our company has been doing it for the last two years. Collaboration implies open standards.

Well, IMHO, from the typical University in Southern Germany, may be in Bavaria... really doesn´t matter... Haven´t seen ANY Linux desktop duriong last 8 years here, only WindowsXP and some Mac´s (there is some scientific equipment which comes only with Mac´s), have NEVER seen any IBM machine in ANY University... here in ´MediaMark´ - no IBM´s... yes, found one old IBM typewriter... picked it up... nice for kitchen, to make my shopping list! That´s the scale of IBM desktops in Germany.
Just for your information: at typical German University, around 90% of Windows computers are without the licence.

Well, IMHO, from the typical University in Southern Germany, may be in Bavaria... really doesn´t matter... Haven´t seen ANY Linux desktop duriong last 8 years here, only WindowsXP and some Mac´s (there is some scientific equipment which comes only with Mac´s), have NEVER seen any IBM machine in ANY University... here in ´MediaMark´ - no IBM´s... yes, found one old IBM typewriter... picked it up... nice for kitchen, to make my shopping list! That´s the scale of IBM desktops in Germany.
Just for your information: at typical German University, around 90% of Windows computers are without the licence.

I could have sworn that I read two years ago that IBM was switching to Linux desktops.

If switching your business was as slick and cost-effective as Linux advocates would have you think, then half of the businesses that employ computers would be running Linux.

That isn't the case. Wild guess as to why? What if Susie Secretary wants to plug her Pocket PC in and sync it up with her desktop machine?

It has to Just Work, and it doesn't.

Besides, IBM has been talking about moving over to Linux for years now, as have other companies. I don't see much being done about it.

IBM has over 300,000 employees. Moving them all to Linux would take years.

"That isn't the case. Wild guess as to why? What if Susie Secretary wants to plug her Pocket PC in and sync it up with her desktop machine?"
My wife had a pocket PC which she kept her checkbook in Money on and interfaced with Money on her PC... until Money ate her records on bothe the PC and the PDA. It don't "just work" on Windows either.
I mean, what a specious arguent; Microsoft keeps on moving the target so as to be incompatible with everybody else and tha't a goo thing. Please!

Actually my secretary does use Linux on the desktop ... and she does just synchronise calendars ... and it does hook-up and just work.
I wonder when tomchu last looked at Linux?

Shhh... quit telling everybody about how good Linux is... it's supposed to be a secret... we don't want Bill Gates or tomchu to find out until everyone else has already converted.

Heard this 100's of times before. Company XYZ switching to Linux. Years later, they still run Windows.

There are a bunch of you who need to learn how to read. It's not about them switching the OS of the desktops they sell, but the desktops they use. You might recall they sold their entire pc manufacturing wing to Lenovo.

Welcome to last year.

All good things come to those who wait for good things.

Hey, my wife and kids (7) & (4) have been using linux on an ibm laptop for almost 6months now without any problems! when it was Windows, I had to rebuild the unit at least once a month! plus, my kids love "super tux"

First, Linux has greatly changed in the last few years and while it did suck. It's getting better, and it will be a few more years before it a complete "desktop" OS... it work pretty damn well for programming, servers, etc. and last time I checked, that's what IBM seemed to be doing (that and protecting their IP).

Tomchu, you're right, IBM doesn't appear to have much of a desktop business. But I think that's because that's the point. They sold off Thinkpad division to Lenovo, and they don't make much for PC software, that which they do make (e.g. Lotus Notes) is practically speaking for businesses only.

I think IBM is trying to make good on their Open Source commitment, but as mentioned earlier, it takes a long time for a company that big to shift direction.

Good ol' IBM: bucking the status quo. If they can move everything from MS to open source, then they'll probably have higher earnings than MS, considering IBM's revenues are quadruple that of MS. Yes ... flee the monster you created.

Oh, and I've been a desktop Linux user for two years now ... the speed of improvement has been staggering! Even WINE runs Windows apps faster than Windows itself half the time now!

>Besides, IBM has been talking about moving over to Linux for years now, as have other companies. I don't see much being done about it.

What I see being done is IBM cancelling their contract to Microsoft

Half of you have good points, the other half ... thanks for the laugh. :-)

WINE faster than Windows ... Linux "just working" with other proprietary devices ... ahh, when will the humour end? I take a look at the latest distros whenever the hype starts building up.

I was thoroughly unimpressed with the latest Ubuntu, for instance. Windows XP runs perfectly fine on my spare Duron 1.2/256 MB system. Ubuntu? Laggy as sh*t.

So much for better performance. Real people simply want to use computers, not spend half the day setting them up. My Macs are 100% plug-in-and-use, with no troubles. Windows XP is about 80% that way. I have yet to see any major Linux distro even come close to the same problem-free nature present in Windows/OS X.

Those who go around proclaiming that Linux is already much better than Windows/OS X are psychotic, and should drop the Linux religion. It's just an OS, people.

I presume IBM was running OS/2 a few years ago before they stopped support for it. If they moved to Windows, they can move to Linux.

<i>Windows XP runs perfectly fine on my spare Duron 1.2/256 MB system. Ubuntu? Laggy as sh*t.</i>

Odd, on my parent's 966 MHz Celeron with 192 Mb RAM it is all but laggy.

<i>Real people simply want to use computers, not spend half the day setting them up.</i>

That's why they should have to use a ready-to-go Linux distro instead of bothering with antivirus, antispywares, commercial pseudo-firewalls, video codecs, installing (often cracked) proprietary sw...
The time I spend needing setting up my computer has dropped next to zero since I switched to Linux.
Setting up my office network printer on Linux was a matter of three clicks and putting the IP address. My collegues took a day. I never had to install a single driver: they just were ready to go. What's the operating system where hardware Just Works?

<i>Those who go around proclaiming that Linux is already much better than Windows/OS X are psychotic</i>

Maybe. Freedom is inebriating

Point proven.

:-)

Go now, freedom frighter, your Crusade awaits you.

>>Windows is a reality of the corporate environment.<< (tomchu)

But Vista isn't Windows. It's Vista.

If you are going to be jerked to a new, largely incompatible environment, why not pick where you want to go, rather than having MS pull you along by the nose.

>I was thoroughly unimpressed with the latest >Ubuntu, for instance. Windows XP runs >perfectly fine on my spare Duron 1.2/256 MB >system. Ubuntu? Laggy as sh*t.

I was running ubuntu on Duron 1Ghz/640MB. Felt more responsive that my XP 3000+/1GB running windows 2000.

Even stripped down of useless processes and it's registry cleaned the win 2k box feels often laggy. Accesses harddrive when browsing the start menu etc. and gets less responsive over time. It starts swapping more and more the longer it's on.

My 1GHz duron is now running debian/fluxbox, current uptime is one month and it's still fast as hell. Im using it as my primary puter now.

>Those who go around proclaiming that Linux >is already much better than Windows/OS X are >psychotic, and should drop the Linux >religion. It's just an OS, people.

I guess im psychotic then.

I recently switched completely to linux because:
1. I find it easier and more logical to use and troubleshoot than windows.
2. It performs much better on my hardware.
3. It's a better network OS. I can use my puter from anywhere remotely. With a simple CLI.

So obiviously our experiences and opinions differ. We might try to respect it, ok?

@Tomchu if it takes you half a day to setup linux then you are in sad shape and you probably shouldn't be using computers.

I hope IBM dumps Microsoft. IBM has been pushing linux for a while and its about time it starts practicing what its been preaching.

Some additional reasoning on perhaps why IBM would be looking to dump MS is because of the trial going on with SCO right now. IBM has recently subpoenaed microsoft in that trial.

IBM wants to know any deals Microsoft had cut with SCO. In the summer of 2003, Microsoft started buying what would amount to approximately $16.6 million worth of SCO's Unix licenses . Many people saw this as proof that Microsoft was bankrolling SCO's lawsuit in an attempt to stall Linux's growth.

It\'s in Germany, where the government is converting to Linux. It only makes sense.
There\'s probably a German word for that...

'>You can't run a business easily and >cost-effectively on Linux when the rest of >your collaborative world uses Windows.

Thats what MS want us to believe - but you're so wrong Buddy. IBM has just been waiting to get Workplace fully deployed to finish getting rid of Windows. IBM already has over 15,000 Linux desktops deployed. That just shows that a large corporation can work effectively with a mix of desktop OS's in place. But now on to 100% Linux. Bye bye .doc and on to .odt,. IBM will never use XAML. This is the beginning of the end of MS as we know it. The arrogant illegal monopolist will just have to become an ordinary company amongst many others.'

Unlike the Linux geeks who command <insert higher payscale here> to maintain Linux systems? It all boils down to which distro of Linux they plan on using, However, anyone trying to fool others into believing Linux is as user friendly as windows, is only really fooling themselves. Those of us who actually use both OS's know who is really fooling themselves...

@tomchu

Bill, is that you?

hehehe Yup

Or if anything, how much is Microsoft paying this guy to troll?

Speaking the truth guy, plain and simple. I like Linux as a matter of a fact, but would never use it as a desktop.

Debian is my personal preffered distro, works great for server applications, and so does Windows server class releases, if the user gets off his butt, and makes some security adjustments (assuming said person could AFFORD it to begin with)

Ease of use being the keyword here guys/gals, meaning easy setup, easy driver updates, and not to not having to worry about if your new hardware is supported by the OS or not.

Linux is great, if you do not mind learning more about the OS, and then tweaking it AS A SERVER OS. I have a few friends who also cannot afford, or dont want to afford MS products, so they also use it as a desktop OS. This being said, saying Linux is as good as windows in the desktop arena is pure BS.
Linux just isnt as polished compared to Windows, plain and simple.

I am a long time die hard MS fan, even attended a private lunch with BG himself last April...I have just installed, sorry, successfully installed ubuntu 510 (Linux) on my Dell 9300, and IT JUST WORKED, I did not have to go dig for additional drivers, everything including 3d graphics and the integrated wireless g worked...I was very surprised. I am LOVING linux so far, everything just works. I have one app that I need windows for, Quicken, but I have just installed VMWare for linux and installed WinXP on it, and it's working out so far. Once I find a decent personal finance app for linux, I won't need windows at all. I highly recommend ubuntu, it's the most popular linux distro on www.distrowatch.com right now. ubuntu 6 comes out in April.

I now love linux!

well, let's not confuse Operating System (OS) with Graphical User Interface (GUI). These discussions tend to follow that path lots of times.

Ubuntu is a really good GNU/Linux distribution based on Debian, that can have severall very nice GUIs, in my case and choice, the GNOME. I like XFCE (fast) as well. Fluxbox flies....

Of course if Microsoft wanted Windows to be banned from market, the world would not stop and other OS would take its place, preferably severall. No drama. MS Windows would be quickly forgotten.

In this moment, if i set up a GNU/Linux box with KDE and show it to 90% of MS Windows users and say it's Visssta, the new MS OS, they will believe and adapt to it.

Let's not underestimate the human capacity to adptation.

--
pedro.mg

Don't forget that Google is doing something with the Linux system also

When will windows be ready for the corporate desktop, Vista maybe. But lets face it, maintaining a firewall, antivirus and anti spyware is very pricey, and tricky, customizing said solutions for the paticular network in any given organization makes it a taller order still. Once all that is done (at an IT cost 3-7 times the cost of the hardware) still "reimaging" 10% of all desktops every 3 months is way too expensive and the loss of productivity is ridiculous. No product or service with this failure rate has ever been successful, but throw office on it and insist that people are productive, and pretend like there is no viable alternative...

I've used Linux, Mac and Win the past ten years quite extensively depending where I lived and worked. For example, I lived in a loft for 2 years with 4 musicians and one other geek and our common room had 3 Win machines for LAN gaming, a Mac for the 'artiste' and Red Hat running on the oldest box for email and surfing. As the latest riser, I was often forced on the Linux machine because I was the last one up. Yet I survived.
I never installed Linux on my own machines because I didnt want to deal with it, I liked the idea of FLOSS but not in practice.
Now, I run a dual boot Win/Linux on both our home desktops and even on my trusty Thinkpad I have dabble with various Linux flavors. My Mac laptop gets very little use.

Fast forward to today and over the past 8 months I have installed Ubuntu on 10 desktops belonging to my parents and their retired friends with half the machines being P3's and you know what? No problem with the old folks including the 3 who never saw a mouse before.
They can surf, write letters, email, IM, listen to and burn cd's, watch dvd's,..you know, 90% of what people do on their computers (apart from gamers or pr0n addicts but theyre both degenerates!!).
My dad even asked me why I didnt switch him earlier! I've done minimal maintenance on a few machines but honestly its been out of sight out of mind apart from the old folks who IM me to say hi every time im online.

On the other hand, when my Windows using friends call for free help (all geeks are burdened by this) because their computer is crawling at a snails pace, I tell them to reformat their HD, dump IE and Outlook, get Firefox, AdAware, Zonealarm, AVG antivirus and a few other freebies and THEN I might look but most of those machines are so loaded with trojans, virii and other goodies that its a total waste time.

So please let me laugh in your face if you think that Linux is too hard on the desktop.
A browser is a browser, a word processor is the same and if a dozen retired people (as well as the two dozen people who work at the compassion club and the community center mentioned below) can get it with no problem, then it says a lot more about you.

As well, I got together with some friends at work last summer and we donated our time to wire up and install computers at a local compassion club (8 terminals) and a community centre (15 terminals) which had no new computers as they were donated and we had to cannibalize many of them to make others run. Both places run Linux. Actually, the community center asked us for Linux because they heard it was free and they were on the software watchdog shitelist because they were running illegal software.
And you know what? No problem.

Does this mean it would work at the graphic firm I am currently working at? No but I wouldnt buy a Mac if I was a gamer either.
You have to know your use.

I would have never dared try this with the ol Red Hat 6.2 but it seems to me that's where a lot of Linux 'experts' last saw a Linux desktop which reminds me that before OS X, I thought Mac software sucked.

Things change, preconceptions dont.

Funny how the first posting on this forum is by an MS lackey. His comment echoes the latest "Get the facts" campaign by MS. I won't be surprised if he's a paid MS minion.

"The arrogant illegal monopolist will just have to become an ordinary company amongst many others."

they already are

I stand corrected. Just read the comments more thoroughly. Half the people here seem to be on MS'es payroll. To me, it looks like if you can't install Linux (at least the current distros(versions for you MS monkeys)) easily, just go back to using type writers. And all the bull these people sell too. Linux is hard, linux this and linux that. If only you had gone to a real school instead of DeVry or Phoenix online, you would not be pouting MS adverts.
Lemme see, a free OS, a free Office System, free browsers, firewalls, anti-viruses, music players and so on. I don't see the problem.

Add to that MS costs of calling in the geek squad or people like me to fix your Windows boxes, I don't see any way MS is cheaper or better than Linux. Even my parents are using Linux comfortably now.

Just because everyone uses something and it is all they have every used doesn\'t mean it is easy to use, it means it is ingrained. Just because something appears awkward doesn\'t mean it isn\'t powerful – or just as easy to use.

I watch a little Chinese guy using an abacus - now for the life of me I couldn’t figure out _how_ he was using it, but he kept getting the correct answer.

Now perhaps from some perspectives people see Linux like this. Mainly because all they have ever used is Windows in some form or another. This doesn’t necessarily make Windows easier to use, it merely means that Microsoft’s monopoly means people are pre-indoctrinated and prejudiced towards Windows because everything seems more difficult than perhaps it is, because it isn’t what they know.

However, there are at least two things working against Windows, firstly people are curious more than a few will try something else and stick with it, secondly the competition is free.

The ultimate thing Linux has on it side is time, it doesn’t have to win today or tomorrow, it cannot lose – what is there to lose? It is really nothing more than an idea. There will always be alternative because people value choice – everywhere else there is choice, and eventually there will be in OS’es as well. Conversely Microsoft can’t win or continue to be a winner, because naturally a monopoly can get a bigger market share than 100%, but every time someone switches from Windows – they generally lose at least two perhaps three customers. An OS customer, an Office customer, and perhaps another voice in the market place saying “hey you know there are alternatives to Microsoft.”

heh, already using Linux at IBM...pfft

I've been 100% Ubuntu (+Kubuntu-Desktop) for 4 weeks and it 'just works', better than Windows XP. I'm an IT contractor and support primarily Windows, its my bread and butter, but Ubuntu is the linux we were waiting for. Kubuntu is probably more friendly for the windows zealots to get started with, but my 4 year old son can navigate Ubuntu menus its so simple and straightforward in its design. Take a new Dell Optiplex or Dimension, install Windows XP on it, see if you have network, audio, etc. drivers. Then install Kubuntu/Ubuntu, hey look, it just _works_.

I'm preparing a migration of a realty management corp with 4 sites entirely to Kubuntu. I'll soon have firsthand knowledge of just how 'not ready' linux is for desktops.

(Note: Stay away from Xandros Linux, its bloatware all the way, even with their hack for active directory domain login into the kdm login page. Although xDMS would be nice to hack for ubu system imaging)

I wouldn't call Linux "Free". It seems that every command requires you to buy and digest a $40 book from O'Reilly.

I wouldn't call Linux "Free". It seems that every command requires you to buy and digest a $40 book from O'Reilly.

All these points of view make an interesting read for an old computer user who remembers the 70s when PARC invented the WIMP GUI.

The 80s were really fun when UNIX took over from the old Big Blue and desktops were blindingly fast 32bit 8 autonomous processor GUI workstations with 10MB Ethernet and 19 inch portrait screens.

I liked the applications that populated the desktop with their own icons letting functions be dragged and dropped onto the app work space, I liked the way the menus were right clicked minimising mouse movement and increasing productivity and I liked the 3 button optical mouse and pad that could rotate objects in 3 dimensions as well as cut and paste.

We seem to have gone backwards from there till now, Still mainly only 32bit, one main processor controlling the peripheral ones, drop down menus, 2 button mouse, single tasking, small landscape screens for years, a desktop computer for every user. Not half as good as the 80s where one workstation could effectively support up to 8 users.

Thank Linus et al for Linux. We are now getting back on the forward development track. 64bit on the desktop now and leading rapidly to 128bit. (For those that say what use is 128bit, just remember that the Intel MMX extensions run in 128 bit internal registers). Multitasking Linux forcing MS to play the forward development game. Larger screens forcing software developers to embrace the right click menu. Robust Linux forcing MS and all the Unices to emulate its garbage treatment capabilities. (IBM and the rest knew about this way back in '95 when Monterey got the drop, so the writing has been on the wall since then.) Modular Linux where crackers have to get through so many doors to do anything nasty, it's easier to go for the one door of an MS system. And lastly Universal Linux that runs robustly, cost effectively, and productively on hardware from Mars Rovers to Desktops to Mainframes.

Since '95, IBM realised Linux was the best OS, so they and their chip making partners have been concentrating on designing and building hardware that can take us into a future long denied by MS, where desktops will once again be large displays (this time controlled mainly by voice), hand writing readers and 3D recognisers, and the bums on seats brigade of the Microsft Anomoly will be out of a job.

Think about it. Do you really want to be associated with something as old fashioned and out of date as a Microsoft desktop?

*I wouldn't call Linux "Free". It seems that every command requires you to buy and digest a $40 book from O'Reilly.*

Or a 20 second search on Google

"Don't forget that Google is doing something with the Linux system also"

If you're referring to Gubuntu it was just a myth for a short while, Google completely denied it. I'm not saying it's not true, but from what I read it was a myth, unless you're referring to something I haven't heard about, I apoligize.

Linux is progressing, it's not as user friendly as Windows because most people are used to Windows. I introduced Ubuntu to someone who knew NOTHING about computers, she just does word processing,surfing, and occasional burning of pictures. She was very happy with it, I got it onto her Windows home network and showed her how to use it and she couldn't tell the difference. If you untrain this Windows superiority out of people they'll slowly migrate and adapt to Linux. Yes, many of the GUIs of Linux are memory hogs, but there are plenty that aren't, and XP isn't that much better, let alone when Vista comes out the ridiculous hardware requirements for that.

First: I wouldn't take tomchu seriously. He's a troll that likes to bash people, has been doing so for the last two-three years. Seems he never grew up from being 14 years old.
He even set up a messageboard once in order to get some friends of his to bash a MAC-editor for saying MAC was a better and safer computer to surf the net with, since there are hardly any viruses that attacks MAC.

tomchu also used to put up different versions of Windows for people to download from his homecomputer, all up until his ISP threatened to cut his internet.

And no, I'm not trolling, this is all true...


Second: I've used Linux in various distros since late 98. SuSE (back then it was S.u.S.E.) always was my favourite, beacuse of the simplicity of setting it up and the option of tweaking it after your will.
I use a 486/66-16Mb as a name and dhcp-server. It's running SuSE 7.0 and is faster than ANY windows-computer I have running.
Linux even corrects the faulty BIOS who's not being able to tell if it's 1996 or 2006.

And no, it was no hassle to install SuSE on it.


Anybody who claims Linux is difficult to use is technologically impaired.
Most often this type of people wants their computers pre-installed with windows, since they find it impossible to go into the BIOS and make it boot from the CD-ROM...

It's all a matter of what you're used to. When i first used mandrake linux in 1998, i hated it with a burning passion.

Then a year later, i installed Debian on my desktop and after using it for a few days, i really appreciated it. I've used debian exclusively at home since 2000 and love it.

The same thing happened when i first saw a mac way back in the 90s... i thought they sucked and thought mac users were weenies. Then i actually used OSX for a few days and a week later i purchased an iBook and use it constantly.

What, IBM isn't using OS/2? Bahaaha. This is hilarious. If I was any big company I'd be saying the same thing to Microsoft.

We've seen this all before. They'll make a deal with Microsoft sooner or later after the linux desktop experiment fails.

Oh, and no matter how much the GPL/Linux fascists scream, it's 2006 and linux desktop market share is still in the low single digits.

First things first,
I have this question too, (@tomchu >< Bill, is that you?) 
All of our discussion is for nothing I think. The reality of Linux, and unreality of M$ is not a thing to discuss about here, even for you Mr. Bill (tomchu) – Don’t forget, you’re just a simple user. (Or maybe you’re something more, if you’re Bill )
MS/Windows, simply hides the procedure and *you* / like a N00B just look at monitor and see everything is wor-king! Oh, what a great OS, > Always want to pay / play / stay noob. It’d be suitable of course.

tomchu is rather obviously one of those would-be Linux users who had trouble with his specific hardware and decided it must be the same for everyone else too.

The reality is that Linux hardware support, despite being less complete than Windows', is far more clear cut. Either the driver exists, or it doesn't. This saves a lot of time, as opposed to the Windows scenario of having drivers only for Win98, or only NT, or you're not sure which, if any. Then there's the amount of times a driver simply hasn't worked.

On Windows, people like tomchu see this as normal. On Linux, they see it as the "reason Linux isn't ready for the corporate desktop". I've got news for you - all the business machines I've had to touch (quite a few) have been *ware infested pieces of shit. This wouldn't happen in Linux, for the simple reason that software can come from a single trusted source.

Jesus Christ, look at these morons like Behnam. It can't even cobble together a cogent sentence. That pretty much sums up your typical demented linux dweeb. They know they're mentally deficient, so make up for it by circle-jerking with other short-bus riders who think they can somehow craw out of their nearly subhuman existence by running Ubuntu.

Oh, now I get it. Benham is probably a socialist european

I switched over to Linux about three years ago and here are my observations.

I installed SuSE 9.2 about a year ago and it works just as well now as it did then - no "WinRot".

The core system works extremely well as do most of the apps. I get the occasional app crash on me but that situation is improving with each new release. In the three years I have used Linux I can count the number serious crashes (needing me to press reset) on one hand. I have NEVER had any situation so dire that I had to wipe my HDD and re-install - beat that MS !!

Hardware support is still patchy on Linux but thats the fault of the device manufacturers not writing drivers for it, despite that most Linux distros can detect all the important things like video, sound, network, USB etc "straight out of the box".

Some of you will never use Linux. Thats OK, thats your choice but at least you have a choice now. It has also forced MS to improve its own software so you benefit if you use Open Source or not.

PJ Blue
CTO RareList

When Autodesk go Linux I will go Linux.
I need CAD and other only windows software.

Hey Richard,
It's not a matter who I am and I'm a user just like you; Try not to be angry about realities. Sorry for my English. (It’s not a matter as well and it’d not change the reality)
---
PS. I'm not European buddy

I think all these posts are funny. Windows is not perfect but neither is Linux. Windows gets slow becaause it gets spyware and virus's etc....... Linux may not have these issues now but if we all moved to Linux they would appear and the same crap would start all over again. Just face it, it is a personal preference, I prefer windows, I have used Linux and still use it as a firewall and proxy as virtual machines. Linus is fine but I like windows more. now I am an IT geek so my windows machine is so locked down that it is practically impossilbe for me to get a virus or spyware or whatever. They are opinions people, remember that.
Good post, lots of very interesting comments.

A few points to add:

1) Installing a current distro (I'm using Suse 10) is fast (15 minutes from scratch incl. all necessary apps) and very easy (boot and go) but yet very flexible if desired (compare alone the partitioning and bootloader placesment with Windows installation).

2) For standard PC users (office + browser) there's no difference between Linux and Windows in usability.

3) If you want/have to use non-standard software, a different driver than the standard one under Linux, you quickly need expert know-how. You need to be able to compile code, often fix compile errors, resolve package and library dependencies manually. Short: non geeks are lost because there's not setup.exe

4) As with Windows it's possible to overcome the problems under point 3 with centrally managed clients in a corporate environment.

5) OpenOffice is capable to open/save MS Office files. But even with the latest version some templates, .doc and .pps files I open still don't look exactly the same as in MS Office. In my point of view this is the biggest hinderance in a business environment. Not being sure if the customer sees the same document as I do. To ease the transition from .doc to .odt I suggest to provide both versions of a document e.g. as a mail attachment.

6) I'm working at HP. Besides the standard Win installation we also have a complete process to deploy several linux distros to our internal hw (see open source solution LinuxCOE) and some geeks already use it. Technically we'd be able to switch our entire environment within a few days from windows to Linux. I guess it's the same at IBM. What takes time is bulding up support, migrating collaboration environments (exchange, calendaring, etc.)

I switched my Laptop to Linux one year ago as an experiment to find out if it's possible to use Linux on a desktop/Laptop in a business environment. My conclusion: Linux/KDE/Gnome has become mature enough to do so. Although I lost many many hours in fine tuning, trying and guessing to integrate it with our corporate exchange server - with a professional internal IT service and support it would be as easy to use as windows.
Once "Evolution" has become mature enough, it would even be possible to keep the excahnge infrastructure...

So it's not the OS/GUI per se that hinders us to switch but just the installed base and the exchanging of documents with the world outside. This will change once 80% of Windows installations have a ODT Viewer installed. That's where the Linux "industry" should put their focus to in order to overcome the final blockade.

Mike
Technical Consultant

IBM has created the MonSter, but now is late to try to kill it.

Why is IBM wasting time and effort on Linux when they invented AIX and are the ones behind the early researches on UNIXes ? Why they just don't port AIX to other architectures like the x86 one instead ? Also, it makes no sense to have left OS/2 die and not having used AIX instead. It was in the plans to have a merge between OS/2 and AIX some years ago actually. I wonder if IBM is going to sell its OS division like it sold out the Hard Disk Storage division...and IBM invented the Hard Disk technology itself...
What's for sure is that a giant group like IBM selling out its main groups means that they are doomed to fail and go bankrupt sooner than expected. I wonder if their CPU division will be bought by Sony or Toshiba since Sony needs it to not lose its money on the Cell project if IBM goes bankrupt..

It is all about money! Why spend resources with your old software if you can sell new software made by others?

USE LINUX!!! I like what IBM is doing, I'm a Ubuntu/Kubuntu user and I can't understand that people will pay for windows (i'm from norway and here you'll have to pay approx 150 US $)

WinXP is after all made in 2001, the next ubuntu is released in April, I think that when Vista is released it will take another 4-5 years before the next windows. It's a new Ubuntu version every 6 months!

You guys are just as bad as Microsoft. You can't extoll the virtues of Linux without bashing its competitor. I have a Server 2003 machine as a router, web server, firewall, and various other tasks and it has zero downtime unless I'm upgrading hardware. It has never crashed or even been unresponsive. My desktop Windows XP machine behaves just the same.

That said, Ubuntu sounds pretty nice and I will check it out. The last time I looked at Linux it was interesting but very much a GUI cobbled on top of an old CLI OS. Maybe Ubuntu is better - at least I will go into it with an open mind instead of a religious devotion to an idea.

Oh, and darren, I like my games and my pr0n! I fear for your sanity when you find out just how surrounded by degenerates you are...

IBM can go to Linux and it will not be easy, but it IS very possible. People who claiming M$ to be the only reasonable choice for corporate desktop will find it very surprising, but it all comes down to a personal (user's) knowledge base.

The advantage that IBM has, compare to many middle and even large size businesses, is a powerful internal world, which has its own Educational System of many different kinds and in many different flavors. This will be the key to expand a knowledge base of its employees.

IBM developers will have no problems at all, whereas IBM global services and support people may need additional education.

Besides educating people there is also a software problem that can be 80% solved by adopting the IBM Workplace within IBM.

As to the Bryan's post about running Win'2003 and XP without downtime - it all depends what exactly the load those systems have. Because besides Mainframes, that have ~5-10% of downtime, all other systems running all kinds of Unixes, Linuxes and especially Windows will have a much greater downtime.

Windows have a huge problem with its MM (Memory Manager) which can be solved [hypothetically] with Vista by going to 64-bit, therefore no matter how good it looks and easy to use, you will have to restart it at least once every couple weeks as a must. Which can be acceptable for Desktops, of course.

Linux is a good OS, so as XP or 2003, but the "good" part here highly depends on who you are and what your strategy is - IBM is not a person and it definitely has a combinations of such strategies. So far, for 90 something years, it exists and feeds its employees - if it is time for Linux now, then why should IBM wait?

I can only wonder how many of the posters here have actually worked in large, mixed platform environments. MS likes to tout its low cost of ownership, but the reality is that in the environments I've worked in (several Fortune 500 companies) MS workstationss suck up IT resources far out of proportion to their number. MS is the full employment plan for IT staff. This will continue to be the case because the entire MS security model is flawed. Unix and linux are intrinsically more secure because of their basic design, and even if linux were to become as popular as Windows, it's doubtful there would be anything like number of exploits.

I'll believe that MS is reliable when MS tech support stops telling people to reboot your computers. We have unix servers that haven't been rebooted in years. And interesting, when I did IT work for a major manufacturer of medicaal monitoring devices, there wasn't an MS box to be seen. Why? Can the most ardent MS shill honestly say they want their heart pump run by MS windows?

MS has aa lock on hearts and minds, and as several previous posters noted, people like what they are familiar with. I am often amazed at what MS windows users will tolerate and can only believe that they just don't know aany better.

Linux is still rough, but it will continue to improve - 6 months in the computer world is an eternity. And once people figured out that by changing, they can free themselves from the upgrade lock that MS has built, they'll never go back. All software has a lifespan. MS windows is reaching its EOL. When was the last time their software offered a really compelling upgrade? The main reason business upgrade at all is because MS drops support on older products.

I see a dark future for MS, even though it may be many years off.

this will probably take as long as it has taken IBM to migrate from VM to Lotus Notes....

I've just built a new Athlon based machine and paid £6 for a SUSE 10 DVD. On that I get an excellent easy to use and administer system that installed itself automatically while I tidied up the boxes and other miscelaneous packaging that the PC came in.

I can't understand how Windows at over £100 for the OEM version, and Office at more than that on top, can continue to be attractive when for £6 I get a DVD with all this functionality and more on it - and it works a lot better than my Windows XP desktop at work. It made good default choices too for things like the firwall which I trust a lot more than Windows, and offered to go off and fetch the NVidia commercial video drivers for my graphics card and set them up for me.

I recommend this system to anyone that asks that doesn't have special Windows needs (noone I can think of), and am happy to show friends around it. What's more - I can perfectly legally lend them the DVD!

Windows must be living on inertia and fear of change. So much is invested in Windows in terms of processes and infrastructure that people are afraid of losing that investment. It is this, not software quality, that is keeping Windows going.

Windows is suffering though through complexity. As Microsoft add more common UNIX ideas such as least privelage computing to their server line, as they break compatibility between Dot-Net-1 and Dot-Net-2, and Eclipse trounces Visual Studio for free, and as they change their file formats in Office to new incompatible ones - things may become more difficult for Windows.

http://www.getdemocracy.com

I agree with tod. But there is one thing about MS and other commercial ventures I would like to highlight. They are *PUSHING* DRM to a level that is unheard of. Do you really want to have to say to your kids, sorry, I know we bought that movie, but we can't watch it any more, because it expired.

Choose freedom! Choose Democracy! http://www.getdemocracy.com/download/

You, and your children, will thank me.

I would like to have it stated that we at ASU use IBM for our servers, and over in our computer science areas we have multitudes of linux based computers. Granted these are not all of our computers, so most of our students don't even realize that they are there. I am only saying this to let you who were at a University in Southern Germany know that just because you cannot see it, doesn't mean that it isn't there.

Re: "Do you really want to have to say to your kids, sorry, I know we bought that movie, but we can't watch it any more, because it expired."

Unfortunately the kids may just accept this as the way things are - and thing you odd for thinking that copyright was actually once a trade-off between the owner and the public, that fair use rights existed, and that it was possible for a non-big-commercial entity to own copyright.

Don't forget a lot of IBM developers use linux already. This isn't a massive shock, the fact that other staff will move towards Linux is a great thing though. The IBM workplace tool should make the transition a breeze.