Neoseeker : News : New Xbox 360 model may be Red Ring killer

New Xbox 360 model may be Red Ring killer
Sean Ridgeley - Saturday, November 29th, 2008 | 11:51AM (PT) 0 Like Favourites (0)


All hail King Jasper!

Reports of the "Jasper" model of the Xbox 360 have been reported to have been in stores since as early as late September, and now a newer report gives us some better details on what to look for, particularly the output voltage on the power brick.

The Jasper chipset is, essentially, supposed to be better in every way, this including the amount of power it requires. So it seems, any 360 made after October 23, 2008 should have the chipset. My only question is: why the heck wouldn't this be advertised and on the box? I guess if they did that a lot of unsuspecting customers would have suddenly been suspecting, meaning less sales since launch. Still!

VentureBeat reporter and "renowned Microsoft digger" Dean Takahashi has done a write-up on the new model giving us all the details on what to expect, and basically concludes the new model should kill the infamous Red Ring of Death problem. "We’ll see if the systems prove reliable. But logically, they should be a lot better," he writes. Note that Dean was behind the massive six-part series on the thing, so as far as journalists go, he's about as qualified as you get for the subject.

The first change is the graphics chip -- it's now 65nm and doesn't run as hot as previous versions (meaning, hopefully, no overheating issues), or consume as much power. As such, it should fit nicely into the motherboard socket, meaning less system failures due to the chip coming loose. It's smaller size and less expensive production costs also explain why Microsoft has been price dropping like crazy since September! Some new information on the new chip vs. the old one has surfaced, too. Dean explains:

The main failure cause [with the older 90-nanometer graphics chips and the boards that came with them] was “thermal fatigue” of the leaded C4 connections between the graphics chip die and its organic carrier. The underfill had too low a glass-transition temperature for the amount of heat generated. That caused cracking over time, resulting in graphics chips coming loose.

In previous versions, Microsoft addressed this with better heat sinks. The temperature sense diode was off in a corner and didn’t reflect the true temperature in the core regions. Jasper has shifted to a material with a significantly higher transition temperature. Coming up with this fix took time, since the new material had to be identified and tested. The smaller 65nm chip die also helps since the stresses that cause the thermal fatigue are related to size.

It's frustrating it's not possible for them to just build this optimally from the begining, but such is technology. Under the circumstances, though, I imagine any 360 owners that have had problems are probably feeling pretty ripped off at the moment. There really should be some kind of rebate program, no? Combine it with a recycling program, sure.

The second thing is the internal memory -- it's now been bumped up to 256mb from a petty 16mb, which means its capable of storing the New Xbox Experience (NXE), meaning even Arcade users can acquire it. Notably, Microsoft was nice enough to offer the extra memory for those users before, but for those that haven't picked up a 360 yet and are considering it, this is good news. Note that LIVE Arcade games can be saved on this too.

In conclusion, and for fear of sounding like a courtesan for Microsoft, it would indeed seem there's never been a better time to pick up a 360, if you've been putting it off. I've been more or less slamming the system (not in articles) but especially lately, I think it's really come around. Between NXE (which has gotten mixed reactions, but seems pretty cool overall), the new technology, this year's killer line-up (Soul Calibur, Gears, Fallout, anyone?), and the price drops -- Microsoft's really got this one in the bag. I would even go so far as to say it's not impossible for them to overtake the Wii, eventually...Will be interesting as well to see if this translates to at least decent sales in Japan, where the console has long been mostly ignored. I don't like to stay mad, so Microsoft: thanks for not sucking.

Source: VentureBeat

Section: Microsoft Consoles

  • 0 thumbs!
    THM since Jan 2008 | Nov 29, 08
    Hee Hee....,all Playstation 3 Consoles have had no problems like that. Sony promises PS3 buyers with absolute guarantee. Maybe Sony has better engineers to ascertain the overall reliability of PS3 consoles and its miscellaneous internal functions.

    Note: My PS2 also had no hardware problmes considering its time span of over 5 years with really really long hours of gaming. As a result, I have always used SONY for my electronic products. Hee Hee........
  • 0 thumbs!
    chautemoc since Mar 2008 | Nov 29, 08
    Well they've improved their chips and stuff, but yeah, to the average consumer -- no noticeable difference. Microsoft is at fault here..it was revealed they designed it the way they did originally to make more money..which is just..ridiculous, even from a business perspective.

    Yeah Sony is great for hardware! The PS3 is just too expensive for me..it meets too many needs I dont have. Hehe.
  • 0 thumbs!
    oni_hero since Jul 2005 | Nov 29, 08
    No one, other then rabid fanboys, denies that sony has excellent hardware. The problem is the price. I would much rather buy a 360(mostly because I love the xbox games) then dish the 100-200 extra bucks for a ps3.
  • 0 thumbs!
    tallteen86 since Feb 2003 | Nov 30, 08
    Meh, Sony's problem is doing the software/firmware just right >_>

    They've been adding features, to be sure, but they've also been screwing up other parts (removing some useful features, or new features cause problems, etc).

    So MS = Software
    Sony = Hardware
  • 0 thumbs!
    VeGiTAX2 since Apr 2001 | Nov 30, 08
    Console life is really a YMMV item, THM claims he had no issues with his PS2 and yet I torched 3 Japanese launch models and I've fried the PS5 fuse on my V5 3 times now. He had a decent run with his but I've cooked mine multiple times from mainboard failure to dead lasers to blown fuses, nothing is godly especially electronic devices.

    quote
    Maybe Sony has better engineers to ascertain the overall realiability of PS3 consoles and its miscellaneous internal functions.
    Might want to consider the fact that IBM and Toshiba are pretty much entirely behind all things regarding the Cell now and Sony is holding onto whatever they kept when they were selling everything off including other things like LCD fabrication (yeah it looks nice, but Sharp is producing it for you), credit goes to where it is due but most fanboys simply just go by the front label.

    I'm glad MS is trying to do something about their chips, the PPC unit they based it off of wasn't exactly the ideal chip for running cool from the start especially with processes so often running at the 90nm range. >_< I guess that's a problem they had to take on when they went with strictly existing tech over working on their own chip from the start. Although this does say good things for IBM as well though since they weren't exactly cranking out PPC chips friendly for home use.
  • 0 thumbs!
    chautemoc since Mar 2008 | Nov 30, 08
    Oh thats true too, I recall the PS2 having a lot of problems with lenses and stuff like that too. And I know everyone's PS1 died around the time the PS2 came out..not entirely coincidence Im sure..hehe. Comparable to the 360's problems but I estimate much less widespread.

  • 0 thumbs!
    oni_hero since Jul 2005 | Nov 30, 08
    quote chautemoc
    Oh thats true too, I recall the PS2 having a lot of problems with lenses and stuff like that too. And I know everyone's PS1 died around the time the PS2 came out..not entirely coincidence Im sure..hehe. Comparable to the 360's problems but I estimate much less widespread.

    My PS1 is still working fine, and I got it the week the system came out.
  • 0 thumbs!
    L0GIN SLAY3R since Oct 2008 | Nov 30, 08
    While I agree with your comment THM, and I have nothing against you as a person, that is about the most stuck up fanboy sounding thing I have ever heard in my entire life. While the PS3 is more reliable than 360 (no one can deny that with this whole RRoD mess), I have seen the PS3 have errors at my friends house (he owns one). While the PS3 does not have the same issues the 360 does, some games on the PS3 get major slowdown where the 360 version does not have any. So while the PS3 is more reliable, its engineers could have made its console a little more user friendly for developers so that less slowdown happens in their third party titles.
  • 0 thumbs!
    chautemoc since Mar 2008 | Nov 30, 08
    quote oni_hero
    My PS1 is still working fine, and I got it the week the system came out.
    I wasnt being 100% literal - obviously its not going to affect everyone.
  • 0 thumbs!
    | Nov 30, 08
    same old shit....i won't count on the jasper, i don't have any respect for MICROSOFT and won't support their consoles ever again....whY??? easy....8months xenon and 4months falcon. they're full of bullshit!!!
  • 0 thumbs!
    | Nov 30, 08
    ps3 sucks xbox rules *bleep* mgs4 jk the ps3 and xbox are both go concels
  • 0 thumbs!
    VeGiTAX2 since Apr 2001 | Nov 30, 08
    quote oni_hero
    My PS1 is still working fine, and I got it the week the system came out.
    Mine gave up 3 drives and 2 spindle hubs (had to replace spindles mid-life) because the lame black tabs kept breaking off >_< I think had they remained on the drive it wouldn't have worked so hard to get the disc at the proper read speed since there was notable slippage.
  • 0 thumbs!
    oni_hero since Jul 2005 | Nov 30, 08
    quote chautemoc
    quote oni_hero
    My PS1 is still working fine, and I got it the week the system came out.
    I wasnt being 100% literal - obviously its not going to affect everyone.
    Oh I know, I just like to mess with people. But my PS1 really does still work. Haven't had to change a thing on it, and trust me, it has been used heavily.
  • 0 thumbs!
    chautemoc since Mar 2008 | Nov 30, 08
    quote oni_hero
    quote chautemoc
    quote oni_hero
    My PS1 is still working fine, and I got it the week the system came out.
    I wasnt being 100% literal - obviously its not going to affect everyone.
    Oh I know, I just like to mess with people.
    I'm easily baited.
  • 0 thumbs!
    | Nov 30, 08
    c,mon M$ is doing it right about their customer so why you all (including fanboys) arguing more about that?
  • 0 thumbs!
    | Nov 30, 08
    Xbox may be cheaper but what I don't understand is people who can't see the bigger picture. For addons onto the Xbox 360 you are getting near to the price of the ps3, there is a difference in games but i think we are equal in terms of quality titles. It is a shame that some things dont come out on ps3 which i'd love to buy, especially like Last Remnant, after reviews on the 360 version i'm not going to get it when it comes on ps3, whereas i would have if it had been released simultaneously. It's the company Microsoft, they *bleep* over their customers in both P.C and Xbox but their customers are so blind to it. Ps3 you pay for what you get whereas Xbox, initially, maybe not now, was a rip off from day one but the games always sold it. I find in these arguements that the old saying "Ignorance is Bliss" comes into it quite a lot.
  • 0 thumbs!
    L0GIN SLAY3R since Oct 2008 | Nov 30, 08
    quote Jamb0wise
    Xbox 360 you are getting near to the price of the ps3
    That is probably true.


    quote Jamb0wise
    i think we are equal in terms of quality titles
    That is not necessarily true. A lot of people do not see the PS3 as having quality titles (whether this is true or not I will not comment on for fear of being flamed). There are good titles, but whether or not they are as good as 360 is a matter of opinion and who you talk to. for example, I don't like Resistance at all and thought R&C was just ok, but I like GOW and Super Mario galaxy, and In my opinion they are better than the two PS3 titles. Someone like THM, on the other hand (I am not picking on you THM, its just that you make a good example, no hard feelings) probably loves the PS3 exclusives because that is what he prefers.

    quote Jamb0wise
    Microsoft, they *bleep* over their customers in both P.C and Xbox
    That is more than likely true in most cases, but considering they have the best online experience on the market, they pretty much get away with charging for certain services.

    quote Jamb0wise
    Ps3 you pay for what you get
    Not trying to be picky, but isn't it you get what you pay for?

    quote Jamb0wise
    box, initially, maybe not now, was a rip off from day one but the games always sold it
    Xbox has the best online as of right now. That is a fact, not an opinion, no matter what console you own (maybe HOME will change that to PS3 being equal, maybe not). Therefore, the 360 was never really a rip off, you paid $50 for a year of the best online experience on the market. The PS3 is free, but not as good as 360. You got what you paid for. As for the last part, the games sell every console, and yes, the main reason you should get a console is for its exclusives, so I agree with you there as well.
  • 0 thumbs!
    | Nov 30, 08
    Real issue is Microsoft's Product Designers the people like myself who design the interior and exterior of the console. It sounds to me that MS has either shit product designers, have a tight budget (ie the console should cost no more than £50 to manufacture or they have a crap engineering team when sourcing the electronics of the consoles. Bottom line is doesnt matter if you change the power input or output and modify some of the circuits if there air pockets in the console's interior which allows heat to build up of a space of time then the problem would never be solved. The consoles design looks good from the outside but poorly worked on from the inside.

    Yeah Sony does have many sub contractors building components for them but remember it will be sony them selves who will be designing, assemblying and testing the actual console and the motherboard
  • 0 thumbs!
    | Nov 30, 08
    Finally! I liked the 360, in fact i still do, but because of the red ring of death i bought a ps3 when it launched. Now i can start thinking about the 360 and hopefully wont have to worry about the red ring. This could be a really good thing. I hope MS did it right this time!!!
  • 0 thumbs!
    ShadowJ since Jan 2003 | Nov 30, 08
    quote chautemoc
    Well they've improved their chips and stuff, but yeah, to the average consumer -- no noticeable difference. Microsoft is at fault here..it was revealed they designed it the way they did originally to make more money..which is just..ridiculous, even from a business perspective.

    Yeah Sony is great for hardware! The PS3 is just too expensive for me..it meets too many needs I dont have. Hehe.
    strike another point onto the score list for conspiracy theorists
  • 0 thumbs!
    | Nov 30, 08
    Nice read... until the end where you were just jock riding and talking crazy. Wii will easily win this generation in both hardware and software. I still see 360 ending up in third b/c if/when the price of the PS3 comes down they will slowly but surely lose there lead over PS3. I say this b/c there are probably 50-60 million people who are just waiting for the price of PS3 to come down and then they will pick one up... not all at once obviously but...
  • 0 thumbs!
    Xenctuary since May 2001 | Nov 30, 08
    Whoo, go Green Ring of Light!
  • 0 thumbs!
    chautemoc since Mar 2008 | Nov 30, 08
    quote ShadowJ
    strike another point onto the score list for conspiracy theorists
    No. See here and here. Stop assuming.

  • 0 thumbs!
    RabidChinaGirl since Oct 2007 | Nov 30, 08

    YES! I love fanboy fights! But not really.
  • 0 thumbs!
    | Nov 30, 08
    No way. Now that the RRoD is going to be gone...I think I'm actually going to miss it....NOT REALLY!
  • 0 thumbs!
    | Dec 1, 08
    [quote=THM]Hee Hee....,all Playstation 3 Consoles have had no problems like that. Sony promises PS3 buyers with absolute guarantee. Maybe Sony has better engineers to ascertain the overall reliability of PS3 consoles and its miscellaneous internal functions.

    funny how you know nothing yet still talk. there have been people shafted by sony because of failures in ps3's. but of course you wouldnt know that. imbicile
  • 0 thumbs!
    oni_hero since Jul 2005 | Dec 1, 08
    quote RabidChinaGirl
    YES! I love fanboy fights! But not really.
    I do, I find it funny when someone is quick to arm themselves with mouse and keyboard and go charging mouse first into an all out fanboy war. It is funny how people defend these companies when the companies wouldn't give two shits about the arguments they have. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft would all sooner chuck your mom off the face of the earth for a quick buck then defend you back like fanboys do for them.
  • 0 thumbs!
    | Dec 1, 08
    THM is right, Sony has a good reputation of manufacturing reliable electronic goods and Sony is more reliable than Xbox 360. PS3 hasn't had a major failure like Xbox has.

    To F##@@@ Ric: You mother *bleep*er, cock s#@@##@#, you are a true imbicile. If you don't like Sony, don't use it moron.If you know someone who has been shafted by Sony, gave your mother for Fu@*&^.
  • 0 thumbs!
    | Dec 1, 08
    Same thing was said about all the previous ships, yet RROD is still screwing record number of customers.

    This also won't fix all the other errors with the 360 console. It is 3 years to late to fix this major problem. The PS3 already has a better games library with their best titles coming in the next year. You know, the titles that helped ship upwards of 120 Million PS2s. What does Microsoft have that compete with God Of War 3, Killzone 2, Gran Turismo 5, Heavy Rain, Twisted Metal, MAG, InFamous, Uncharted 2, Wardevil, Final Fantasy Versus 13, ICOs project, White Knight Chronicles... I can go on the whole day. What does the 360 have left? Alan Wake, the game that has disappeared because the PC version displayed with full settings looks dated, or some other titles I can just buy for my PC? Maybe 3 more Halo titles.

    Microsoft knew when PS3 got in full force they didn't stand a chance, that is why they shipped their broken console with known issues out as quickly as possible. They lost their window of opportunity using every franchise game they had with poor results, and with hardware sales that despite being inflated with RROD replacements and how Microsoft uses shipped units for their figures, the result has been embarrassing.

    But boy, doesn't Microsoft have this screw your customers thing down perfectly now! It's like stockholm syndrome.
  • 0 thumbs!
    oni_hero since Jul 2005 | Dec 1, 08
    Lol I love the "Educated" fan boys. You can claim all you what that sony is better, or Nintendo is the top dog, or Microsoft is gods gift to gaming. But when it comes down to it, the only thing your doing is making yourself look like an ass. Fanboys seem to not understand how stupid they look. Gaming, consoles, and everything in between is a personal preference. It all depends on what you like.

    So why, exactly, do these fanboys become rabid when you seem to say something "wrong" about "their" console or company of choice? Simple really, and I think Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw said it best. "Because when your mum can only afford to buy you one console and it turns out you made the wrong choice, you are hell bent on bending reality with your fan boy shouting until you have drown everything out and your console is now the best one." In other words, you shout until you convince yourself that the other consoles are only good to be used as paperweights. So the fanboys, have essentially turned themselves into the massive creatures of hate that sit in the corner writing hate mail to the rival companies and twitching as everyone mocks them for being such losers.
  • 0 thumbs!
    VeGiTAX2 since Apr 2001 | Dec 1, 08
    quote oni_hero
    You can claim all you what that sony is better, or Nintendo is the top dog, or Microsoft is gods gift to gaming.
    Exactly they can claim all they want but we know for a fact 3DO ended this debate long ago and has yet to ever be overthrown.
  • 0 thumbs!
    chautemoc since Mar 2008 | Dec 1, 08
    quote VeGiTAX2
    quote oni_hero
    You can claim all you what that sony is better, or Nintendo is the top dog, or Microsoft is gods gift to gaming.
    Exactly they can claim all they want but we know for a fact 3DO ended this debate long ago and has yet to ever be overthrown.
    Didn't see that coming!
  • 0 thumbs!
    THM since Jan 2008 | Dec 1, 08
    Hee Hee.., I've got brave legions of centurion to support me in this heated debate of PS3 Vs Xbox 360 in terms of hardware reliability.

    After reading 32 comments, Sony's PS3 is still more popular than unreliable occassionally broken Xbox 360 consoles.

    Every console has its pros and cons, nevertheless, I'd prefer PS3, call me fanboy or whatever, I don't care, but I've got to say what is in my mind.

    The most important thing in this life is reliability, it doesn't matter whether it's in console or in people or in economic transactions, if something does not have a reliable feature, its future is somewhat doomed!!!!!!!
  • 0 thumbs!
    VeGiTAX2 since Apr 2001 | Dec 1, 08
    quote
    The most important thing in this life is reliability, it doesn't matter whether it's in console
    Actually it does matter if it's a console, the CDI could be the most reliable system in the history of the world for centuries but it's sheer lack of decent software mutilated any hope of success. Yeah it works for years and years, because there's nothing to play on it.

    It's no contest to who had the more stable design out of the box, trying to debate that is pretty pointless, I believe I noted it earlier but I'm amazed they managed to even have a 3 core PPC chip from that generation run in a small enclosure to begin with because of all the teething problems that were being had with Apple in their towers for heat. >_<
  • 0 thumbs!
    kspiess since Jun 2007 | Dec 1, 08
    quote THM
    The most important thing in this life is reliability, it doesn't matter whether it's in console or in people or in economic transactions, if something does not have a reliable feature, its future is somewhat doomed!!!!!!!
    I hear ya THM . Reliability is pretty important.
  • 0 thumbs!
    killgong_101 since Feb 2008 | Dec 2, 08
    I was a hardcore MS and origional XBox fanboy, but they really screwed everyone with the 360... I still bought one though even knowing all of the terrible things... which can only mean MS has produced some kind of mind controlling device...

    I still have my origional XBox and i still play but all i really do is mod it...
    Im just sad thatt MS let go of a product that still had years of life left...
  • 0 thumbs!
    Bill Gates03 since Dec 2004 | Dec 3, 08
    I have always been a hardcore MS fanboy.

    I have both my Xbox's (current and last gen) modded, and have had absolutely no issues with either.

    Plus, I have used every version of Windows since 3.1. I have enjoyed them all, except Win ME maybe, but it held me over until XP...
  • 0 thumbs!
    KyLeDaWg since Sep 2004 | Dec 29, 08
    quote tallteen86
    Meh, Sony's problem is doing the software/firmware just right >_>

    They've been adding features, to be sure, but they've also been screwing up other parts (removing some useful features, or new features cause problems, etc).

    So MS = Software
    Sony = Hardware
    Well, what do you expect? Microsoft is practically the original software company, and as for Sony... they make TVs .
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