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Developer talks to pirates
Sean Ridgeley - Sunday, August 10th, 2008 | 9:56AM (PT)


Seeing eye to eye

Developer talks to pirates Image 1

 

Update: The result of the whole thing, which is very fascinating, can be found here!

 

The piracy thing is tricky. After doing even more research today, this is the contention I've come to: it's tricky. As "Gamer Girl" commented on a recent GameSetWatch article:

"Pirates come in a variety of shapes and sizes. Some honestly do try-before-they-buy and pay for the games they approve of. Some don't care about the games at all and crack just for the thrill and the status."

The same applies to developers, publishers, and even those in other industries with similar situations. Some say piracy is to blame for everything, or at least for a lot. Some say we need more protection, some say less, or none. In short, virtually every opinion possible is represented. How are we going to come to a consensus and have at least most people happy with the progress and/or results to follow?

Well, I think Cliff Harris, of Positech Games is on the right track, even if he doesn't care. In a blog post, he straight out says, "I want to know why people pirate my games. I honestly do." Now, you may be anticipating some noble step for gamers and developers everywhere, but Harris shoots that down quick:

"This is not some silly attempt to start a flamewar, it’s not at attempt to change anyones mind about anything. I don’t want to argue my side of it, and there is zero ulterior motive. I’m not looking to ‘catch’ anyone, or prove any points.

I know what I don’t know. And what I don’t know is WHY people pirate MY games. I might be able to get a general idea as to why people pirate stuff *in general* from reading warez forums, and every other story on digg, but I’m not interested in the general case. I want to improve my business, and ensure I stay afloat, and to do that, it would be mad to sit in the corner and ignore the opinions of that section of the public who pirate my games."

But like anything, everyone is free to take from it what they will. And what I'm taking from it is this: Harris is starting on some serious progress.

On a fundamental level anyway, the piracy thing is this: developers want money for their games, and pirates want more freedom from all sides (of course, this is how I see it and maybe some would say that's not how they see it at all, but I think that's a pretty good summation). These two sides often clash and rarely find themselves in this kind of (figurative) forum (Sony did a similar thing awhile ago, quite notably), where we're sitting down and explaining our views.

The thing is, usually whenever this kind of stuff happens, we all find out we have a lot of common ground. I mean, I don't think pirates actually want to hurt developers. Most don't anyway; the ones that do are the same people who get thrills from say, shoplifting, and well, that's always going to happen, that's just a natural response to economy, albeit an uncommon one. So this seems to be the feeling of many studios in the industry: they're pissed off at pirates and see them as the enemy. Sure, to some extent they may hurt your profits, but how is attacking them going to solve anything, really? Pirates then, often just get pissed off right back at the studios, typically because (and they may not say it this way) they don't feel understood. I realize this may seem like a ludicrous concept, but I believe it to be true. I'd go so far as to say all criminals do what they do simply from a lack of understanding from some source or another. Their view conflicts with society's rules, and they manifest that. This is natural, if not uncommon. So, establishing such a forum I believe will lead us on a path to understanding and therefore a better situation for all.

I'm not going to get into the meat of the piracy thing and the arguments for or against, as I suppose that's been done to death (nevertheless, there are some great reader comments from both sources listed below if you care to check them out). I just think the important point here is if we are ever going to reach any kind of an end on this, a willingness to understand the other side is crucial.

Source: Cliffski's Blog

Alternate Source: GameSetWatch

Section: PC Games

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Comments:

August 10th, 2008 1:38PM(PT)
gerard way owns you
as if u dont make enough money, who cares about piracy,, if you love doing something then do it
August 10th, 2008 1:58PM(PT)
x_revenge
end? no way
progress? hell yeah

that sums it up...lets just say i had a much bigger comment before...
August 10th, 2008 2:07PM(PT)
Jaw7765
you cant stop it, theres so many people in the world its impossiable to stop. you get rid of 1 then 5 others come to the stand and join in.
August 10th, 2008 2:19PM(PT)
chautemoc
quote gerard way owns you
as if u dont make enough money, who cares about piracy,, if you love doing something then do it
Unfortunately it's not that black and white..in any case, studios are closing down all the time because they can't stay in business. Conversely, huge companies merge and consolidate in order to thrive. I'm sure some (likely few) studios fit the depiction you make there, but overall it seems like the most dangerous time to be in the industry, to me.
August 10th, 2008 2:44PM(PT)
SUPREM_KITE
i can tell him why people pirate his games in one easy word FREE
August 10th, 2008 2:51PM(PT)
ViperSean
Am I the only one who thought this was gonna be about actual pirates?
August 10th, 2008 3:47PM(PT)
gerard way owns you
no viper, i to thought that upon first glance...then i felt like a *bleep* 3 seconds after the page loaded...
August 10th, 2008 4:04PM(PT)
Gamer Girl
quote Jaw7765
you cant stop it, theres so many people in the world its impossiable to stop. you get rid of 1 then 5 others come to the stand and join in.
It's not ABOUT stopping it. Most sensible developers don't really want to stop all piracy. What they want is to ensure that they have enough paying customers to survive. What they want is to find the little blips who never pay for anything at all and teach them a lesson, or to find the people who make money out of ripping people off, and shut THEM down.

Buy games you like, support the creators so they can continue. That's really all that the sensible people want.
August 10th, 2008 6:18PM(PT)
OmegaFury
I wonder if this is the same Gamer Girl that was quoted in the article 0.o
August 10th, 2008 7:41PM(PT)
arkangyl
I think that piracy will always be around, more or less. I typically go for the try it thing. If I like, I buy. If no, then I can free up my hard disks. One thing that I think is *bleep* is copy protection on games, where they prevent you from using virtual drives. If I own the game, I'm sure as heck not gonna risk scratching my disks. I just make an ISO. It's just when that doesn't work, it pisses me off. Any pirate will make a crack file, anyway. It's the honest people backing up their disks that pay the price.
August 10th, 2008 9:15PM(PT)
riiaku
Corporations are wrought with white collar crimes, embezzlement, and various other (war)crimes. Such as Sony's use of Coltan which is mined in Rwanda where warlords pillage villages murdering thousands of people taking their kids and throwing them in mines where they mine for coltan and die in these mines. Sony then uses this coltan for their ps2, ps3, and psp. Yet they claim innocence. Governments wage oil wars (Bush) and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people and use the presidency as a means for their own personal gain. The US is the largest weapons supplier in the world, and those weapons used throughout the world are used to kill insane amounts of innocent people. Yet THESE AHOLES HAVE THE AUDACITY TO ARREST PIRATES AND GIVE THEM A SPEECH ABOUT MORALS AND VALUES AND WHATS RIGHT AND WHATS WRONG. Oh, please, get over yourselves. You corporations and world super powers make so much money by exploiting other countries and their people and causing famine, mass genocide, rape, murder, terrorism, etc.. and yet you have the audacity to sit on your high horse and dictate whats moral. Your moral compass is so effed up i doubt you could find your way to the bathroom. Piracy shouldn't even be an issue. It barely affects a companies profits. Many independent groups say it only affects less than 10% of their profits. Which is nothing in long run scheme of things.
August 10th, 2008 9:24PM(PT)
chautemoc
riiaku, it's a little more complicated then that. I've researched the coltan issue extensively and written about it..the thing is, most of these corporations don't know where their materials are sourced from, or at least that's what they say..but I've heard this from suppliers, they have no clue, it's not their job and they don't have the time anyway.
Moreover, simply withdrawing sourcing from that area or any area under those conditions is actually likely to further the poverty and therefore violence in the area. The standards and pay may be crap/next to nothing, but removing it completely worsens the situation, in a sense. NGO intervention brings its own set of complications. It's a shame we can't just solve this problem easily..with money for example, it seems as if it only works when you want to do useless and/or bad things with it, when you want to do good..it's entirely likely to be futile..once the money is out of your hands you have no control over what's done with it. And foreign intervention is often seen as interference..it's rough.

Anyway, you're linking things together where there's not too much to really link together. I mean, the same people that wage oil wars are not the same people that attack pirates. I mean obviously the piracy thing has gotten to the government on some level at some time or another, but it's not like they're the piracy police or something..I'd expect they say 'sounds good' and sign something and it's done.

Either way, it's good to see someone so passionate about these sorts of things.
August 10th, 2008 9:50PM(PT)
riiaku
That is such a load of crap chautemoc, they know where its coming from. That is so incredibly naive to say. So when bush attacked Iraq based on false pretenses, or otherwise called made up evidence, they had the willpower to just attack a country. The US could do the same in this situation, They could go in there and exterminate these warlords and bring peace to the region if they really wanted to, or at least help build the infrastructure of the government.
Sony isn't the only company that does this. Nike is notorious for its exploitation of using children for sweat shops where most of them die at a very early age. I could go on and on and on about companies and their knowledge of where their products are coming from and how their being made and by what means. To say they dont know is extremely naive. You know what blood diamonds are? Do some research. My point is that companies are merely trying to shift the focus away from whats really wrong and unjust in the world. Actually governments are the ones that make the arrests and write the laws for this stuff and corporations are the ones that own the governments and get them to do as they want. For instance what happens to the money after the RIAA sues the people that infringed? We know the profits dont get distributed back to the artists. Instead it goes to the pockets of the rich lawyers. Its just another way to funnel money back to the rich. Just like after every natural disaster that happens throughout the world. Companies come in with disaster relief, then acquire the lands and build hotels and resorts. This has happened in the pacific. The US government is nothing more than a wholly owned subsidiary of the largest most powerful corporations in the world (pharmaceutical, defense contractors, oil companies, etc...) Try watching the documentary Zeitgeist.
August 10th, 2008 10:10PM(PT)
chautemoc
No, it's really not that simple. I've read the UN reports, and it's really just not that simple..unless you want to develop a conspiracy theory about the UN and US government working together or something which I guess isn't entirely unfounded, but nevertheless..it's not my only source, and I have solid reasons to believe as such.
Being opposed to every source doesn't solve anything, you know..

Nike, as I recall, are virtually+completely unaware of the situation, as I mentioned previously regarding companies/corporations in general. See here. They just seem completely unaware. They don't buy the materials directly from these people, there's a supplier. They get it from the supplier and don't think about anything else. It's not their job to, their job is to serve the corporation, increase profits, etc. I'm not even saying this is "evil"; I quite understand it. But nevertheless, something somewhere has to be done.

I didn't mean to imply all companies and corporations are unaware, or all people within them, but it seems as if many are. And yes, I'm sure there's plenty of diversion going on. Always is, in many facets of economy and society.

And yes, corporations run countries, and work with governments. There's been filmed evidence of this. Quite literally, conventions I suppose you'd call them, where governments and corporations come together, plan. It's frightening.

Zeitgeist..no thanks. That film doesn't hold all the answers like everyone hypes it to..I'd say there's some viability in it, but..I've researched and seen too many holes. Just merely opposing institutions isn't enough, and essentially reduces the work in question to the very thing or things it claims to oppose (which is to say, non-credible misinformation): we need irrefutable proof, and then action.

Anyway, if you wish to continue this you should probably PM me.
August 10th, 2008 10:16PM(PT)
Jaw7765
1 thing we all could agree on are the whole "just for Japan games" atleast with piracy we can recode Japaness games into our laguage so we can enjoy them insted of getting the big F-U from them
August 11th, 2008 5:07AM(PT)
Gamer Girl
I'm the same girl, drawn here by the link to my blog, although I can't prove it since I'm not a member here and anyone could spoof me.

riaku - The developer in question is a one-man business making enough money to pay his rent and his groceries. Not a huge corporation making international deals and causing wars. It's great that you're thinking about ethics, but if you're assigning blame to people at random rather than looking into who actually does what, you're making the problem worse, not helping. Cliff's British, ranting about the US government and the RIAA is totally irrelevant. Research first!

jaw - I do buy a few games legally from Japan, but that's because I can afford to and I like the status of having the ACTUAL japanese game box along with my personally hacked copy to try and make it readable in Englisn. I don't expect everyone to do that. I have no problem with people fooling around with games where the company doesn't WANT to sell to them.
August 11th, 2008 8:56AM(PT)
OmegaFury
quote Gamer Girl
I'm the same girl, drawn here by the link to my blog, although I can't prove it since I'm not a member here and anyone could spoof me.
Cool. I'm surprised no one caught that....
Or maybe they did and assumed without asking 0.o

Also, do you go by another alias besides Gamer Girl, and what do you do (sum it up in four words maybe?)??? I just want to know why your comment was important.... and why clicking on your name (both in the Neoseeker and on the GameSetWatch) leads to 'I Whine About Games.' Now I could assume things, but I'd rather want a straightforward answer from the camel's mouth. (It's kind of obvious when you said "my blog," but maybe you can say it anyway? -An introduction, if you will.)
August 11th, 2008 10:36AM(PT)
GG2K8
I played Kudos for a little while. It was fun but got boring later.

Personally, I wouldn't buy almost anything anyway. The very few things I would buy I do actually go out and buy. I make about $800 a month and am trying to save up a little for college, so I don't want to be spending tons of money.

However, the only Positech game on [the largest private BitTorrent Tracker for games - for security I have not included the name, though it's not hard to find] only has of your games. If they don't have any others, that means there have been no scene releases (most likely), which therefore means there has been no large-scale piracy of your games. Any release of your games has been by amateur P2P releasers.
August 11th, 2008 12:19PM(PT)
kspiess
I think the issue of pc game piracy is pretty simple. People pirate games because it is easy, and free. The way to cut down on piracy is making games more convenient to download, less expensive, or by making the legitimate versions of the games superior to the pirated ones.

Currently pirated games often run better than legitimate versions, and are available sooner, than legitimate versions.

Piracy is definitely a huge problem. Games are damn hard to make, and it would be a shame to see something you worked on for years stolen by thousands of people. But I think developers have to stop swimming against the stream -- you can't change peoples behaviors; it's much wiser to offer them superior alternatives and then watch them adopt to it.

Games are making tons of money. It is possible to make tons of money off of a PC game, (Sins of a Solar Empire come to mind.) Micro-transactions and digital delivery systems are the way forward. Unoriginal, over-budgeted games with more style than substance are not going to be huge sellers on the PC -- either earlier, now, or later on.

*People should definitely support the studios that make games they like. The cool PC gamers actually buy their games
August 12th, 2008 7:02AM(PT)
OmegaFury
Dammit. She didn't reply >.< Looks like my ego will not be fed anytime soon....

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