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Yet another frivolous lawsuit over a ridiculous patent.
J. Micah Grunert - Friday, September 14th, 2007 | 1:20PM (PST)


Someone actually received a patent for the concept of music play lists and is suing everyone who uses one.

Ever heard of Premier International Associates? Neither have I.

But they do hold two U.S. patents (applied for 6,243,725 in 1997 and received as 6,763,345 in 2001) for what they filed as a 'List Building System'. I could take a moment to dissect the details of their two identical patents filed on two different dates, but the abstract definition within is quite simple to understand.

A system implementable using a programmable processor includes a plurality of pre-stored commands for building an inventory of audio, musical, works or audio/visual works, such as music videos. A plurality of works can be collected together in a list for purposes of establishing a play or a presentation sequence. The list can be visually displayed and edited. A plurality of lists can be stored for subsequent retrieval. A selected list can be retrieved and executed. Upon execution, the works of the list are presented sequentially either audibly or visually. The works can be read locally from a source, such as a CD, or can be obtained, via wireless transmission, from a remote inventory. If desired, establishment of a predetermined credit can be a pre-condition to being able to add items to the list for presentation.  

That's the definition of a playlist allright. Just like the ones developed by Microsoft, Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba, Viacom, Real, Napster, Samsung, LG, Motorola, Nokia, and Sandisk, all of whom are named in one of the two law suits filed for patent infringement. Hewlett-Packard, Acer, Gateway, and Yahoo are named in the second, somewhat more absurd suit. The second suit accuses the defendants (Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba, HP, Acer, and Gateway) of building computers that are capable of running Windows XP and or Windows Vista which is capable of running Windows Media Player (and other media players) that infringe upon the patent. I guess you could call it involuntary patent infringement in some distorted sense.

It quite has me sighing in disbelief. But what follows is leaving a bad taste in my mouth so to speak.

Premier International Associates doesn't have any notable company history other than that of filing lawsuits for patent infringement. Furthermore they don't manufacturer or produce any product(s) that are threatened by the infringement of their patent.

If it seems odd that Apple wasn't named in the suit(s), they've been down that raod before. Premier International sued Apple back in 2005 for patent infringement with regards to the playlists in their iTunes software and playlists for Apple iPod hardware. Oddly enough, Premier filled for a motion of dismissal in their suit against Apple around the same time they decided to sue everybody else. They said that the issue with Apple has been resolved and that "the matter has settled in its entirety and all necessary costs and expenses have been paid."

Steve Jobs cut 'em a deal on the iPhone, $200 dollars off.

In both of the cases filed, Premier has asked for a permanent injunctions against the companies involved to have them stop their continued infringement upon the patents. Premier would also like to have a trial by jury with all attorney fees and damages paid in full.

It's difficult to say what will happen. Previous patent infringement cases like this have been in some cases upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court while others have been tossed out. Premier International Associates may get nothing or may get something, or the companies involved will settle out of court and Premier will be able to continue their long standing business model of suing everybody to make a buck.

Hey, what about my play lists in Linux?

Source: none

Alternate Source: Company patents playlists, sues everyone

Section: Media Players & Services

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Comments:

September 14th, 2007 1:35PM(PST)
iamjoe56
What the hell is wrong wit hthose people?
September 14th, 2007 1:45PM(PST)
Yorkieboy 5
They just want thier money.
September 14th, 2007 1:48PM(PST)
iamjoe56
Maybe they should stop worrying about money and worry about the lawyers those companies have! They'll get torn to shit!
September 14th, 2007 1:52PM(PST)
iamjoe56
hey Micah, how big is this company, Premier? Because it seems highly unlikely that they backed off apple for a single $200 off Iphone coupon. Were did you find that?
September 14th, 2007 2:26PM(PST)
MicahWrites
iamjoe56

There's the Ars Technica link at the bottom of the article. There's a few links in their article but none for Premier International Associates

But, if you Google for 'Premier International Associates' you'll find that they're a consulting/legal firm. Google for 'Premier International Associates patents' and you'll get several pages full of their court filling applications.

What they settled for with Apple was undisclosed (though a free iPhone or two wouldn't hurt).

Interesting how a business can have no product or service and stay financially afloat by suing people. Darn lawyers.
September 14th, 2007 2:40PM(PST)
Cillchaoi
Yes, there is an arstechnica.com link as your source article but the question that was raised by Dave was where did you find the source of information that Apple settled out of court for a $200 discount on an iPhone? I am curious as well because I have not been able to find that after reading a number of articles regarding this litigation.
September 14th, 2007 2:44PM(PST)
MicahWrites
It's a satirical comment.
September 14th, 2007 3:05PM(PST)
Cillchaoi
Oh, I see. I thought you were writing a factual story and you were claiming that was the actual end result. Hmmm, okay. I found it hard to believe, so I went out looking for confirmation and found nothing, accepting that you are a journalist who likes to present accurate information. I did find the email address of the attorney, though. Mr. Yar R. Chaikovsky and wrote him an email asking for a yes or no answer as to whether that was accurate.

So far, I have not heard back. He may not write back, claiming attorney-client confidentiality, even though only a yes or no answer was requested, but we shall see.
September 14th, 2007 3:19PM(PST)
MicahWrites
In journalism, if something is presented to the audience in such a fashion that it would seem impossible and or absurd to the audience then it is allowable.

If I were to write an article with the by-line of "New probe lands on the moon. It's not Green Cheese after all, it's Swiss.", a reasonably intelligent individual understands that it is a joke.

Chill Cillchaoi, taking life so seriously is actually bad for ones overall health (heart mostly). The proverbial grain of salt isn't that bad once in a while. Besides, we need sodium in our diets to halp falcitate porper nerve function ;-)
September 14th, 2007 3:24PM(PST)
Cillchaoi
What you wrote was, "Steve Jobs cut 'em a deal on the iPhone, $200 dollars off," which seems to state it as a fact. There is no indication that it is satire. If you wanted to make sure that people understood it as satirical, you should have indicated that in some fashion such as, for example, "It would surprise me if Steve Jobs cut 'em a deal on the iPhone, $200 dollars off." That would indicate the satirical nature quite clearly.

Now that I understand it was meant tongue-in-cheek, so be it. However, that was not the way it was presented. All I ask is that, in the future, be careful with the way you phrase your satire. That's all I will say about that. :-)
September 14th, 2007 3:41PM(PST)
kspiess
Aw, geez. What did I do with that fire-proof suit? I always like to keep that thing handy, just in case.

Maybe it's in my closet...
September 14th, 2007 3:41PM(PST)
iamjoe56
Micah, assume nothing. Not as many people would understand what you meant. Besides the presence of Quote marks indicated you meant it as fact.

I did not notice it for what it was until a looked over it again. Consider the readers.
September 14th, 2007 3:43PM(PST)
tekmosis
I saw the joke in that particular statement. It was actually pretty obvious.
September 14th, 2007 3:50PM(PST)
iamjoe56
Tek, perhaps you are just saying that. Or you may have just noticed it. But the whole matter is not whether YOU noticed it, it is whether or not someone else did, mainly the common folk. I would aprecciete it if you stopped kissing Micah's ass, however. As you seem to be taking sides in a fairly nuetral discussion.
September 14th, 2007 4:41PM(PST)
MicahWrites
Again, there are statues in law and journalism that allow for the writing of an absurd or unbelievable statement as any reasonable individual would know that the statement is meant as a joke.

When comedians tell jokes about a celebrity or politician they aren't asked to clarify their jokes and indicate whether or not it is a joke or a fact.

Freedom of expression (and jokes) are protected under the Universal Deceleration of Human Rights (a great deal of Canadian contribution to that doctrine).

If Premier International Associates wants to sue me, fine. A judge will throw out that case based upon Freedom of Speech.

If Apple wants to give me (or anyone) a free iPhone I'll say no thanks (on my part). Just open up OSX to run on any x86 platform without Apple certified hardware.

If Cillchaoi wants to play international lawyer, he should get a degree and pass the bar first.

If kspiess wants to interject some toungh and cheek of his own I'll simply say that humor is the spice of life.

If iamjoe56 wants to split hairs then he should get a microscope.

If tekmosis wants to point out the obvious then that is understood, accepted and appreciated.

And if I would choose to interject a few drops of humor into a bland subject to give it some flavor then I may continue to do so as it is my right to speak and write and say anything I would like without fear of oppression and or repercussion for telling a joke.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
September 14th, 2007 4:53PM(PST)
iamjoe56
um...micah, no one is attacking you directly. We are just saying that the comment may not register as a joke with some. Damn dude. Lighten up. Also has it completely missed you that Cillchaoi has studied law? Rather extensively, it seems. So why attack him with: "If Cillchaoi wants to play international lawyer, he should get a degree and pass the bar first."

My only point is this, no one is bashing you right now, and as far a Tek goes, he moderates a dead end PC forum and in my mind, their is probably a reason for that.
September 14th, 2007 4:57PM(PST)
tekmosis
Joe, did you not just say yourself "assume nothing"? I believe you did and yet here you are assuming and making false allegations. In fact, that was rather rude and I would hope to get an apology from you. I am definitely not kissing anyones ass. It is my own opinion and I would hope that you would respect that, which, you have not and have taken it that I'm kissing ass.

The whole article had a serious tone to it as it delt with a law suit. However, a single sentence that has no relevance to the article was its giveaway. You must understand not everyone comprehends the same joke. Some (ie: you) did not see it. I, did. I've also realized this was a joke based on recent events regarding the $200 price drop.

Also, I don't call the comments thus far a "fairly nuetral" discussion. Seems a bit one sided to me in those that could not see it for what it was. I figured I'd throw in my two cents for those people who did see it as a joke. Micah made a very good point in his comment if you would even care to take that into consideration.

Also, I would hope you don't take what kspiess said literally and that he actually has a fire-proof suit. I am going to assume you did not, correct? Well, apply the same concept to Micah's $200 sentence. See what we're getting at? Yes / No, circle one.
September 14th, 2007 5:03PM(PST)
MicahWrites
Ever see those old Asian ladies that can write somebody's name on a grain of rice?

I wonder if they could splice and split hairs this finely.

Still, a cigar is just a cigar.
September 14th, 2007 5:12PM(PST)
Cillchaoi
It seems, Micah, that you are not going to take advice given to you once again. So be it. Just be forewarned that statements such as that, which are not indicated as being satirical, can be interpreted as either defamatory about the party in question (in this case, Apple) and/or libelous (as the statement is untrue but presented in the article as if it were true). This is the reason that professional satirical journalists make sure to report the facts and indicate where the satire is inserted or appended. A perfect example is the satire written by Randy Cassingham at ThisIsTrue.com

Oh, and yes, Micah, I have studied Law, passed the State Bar Examination, and have practiced law. I did so during the years that I lived in Nevada but decided to give up practicing law when I moved out of state so as to pursue the field that most interested and fascinated me.

I shall point out to you, Micah, that I made a simple request and gave you some easy advice. I also told you that I was willing to let it drop but you decided to try to take digs. So, here you go again trying to joust with me. Be a mature adult and let it drop. I shall say nothing more in this thread, no matter what attacks you may try to use against me, even ad hominem attacks that you seem to enjoy making. You are no longer worth my time or effort. You learn nothing from the discussions that we have.
September 14th, 2007 5:18PM(PST)
iamjoe56
Tekmosis,

I can hardly believe you. You attempt to tell me you do not kiss Micah’s ass, yet you so clearly do.


Example one: In my opinion you're being too anal, Cillchaoi. Seriously, who counts words and compares it to another article and then looks up the source sites copyright and then quotes it in the article in question?

As bhenning stated it was most likely that Micah forgot the quotes. It could also of been a style of quoting that doesn't even have quotes. ie: indenting the quoted paragraph thus changing its margins from the actual story.

Stole the title? How do you attribute "buddies up with" to "signs-in to"? What if the title was "IBM partners with OpenOffice" oh SNAP plagiarism! I think by some of the comments you've made here trying to "call onto the carpet" is unprofessional and childish in itself, just over some missing quotes. <insert eye roll emoticon here> Question, why link to the article is he's going to plagiarize it?

Rather obvious you are trying to put Cillchaoi down for bringing up a true statement against Micah. You should recognize this off the IBM issue, by the way.

Example two is from the same source:Forgetting quotes != plagiarism. Humans make mistakes. Micah made his apology so just let it go.

You're being the biggest troll I've ever seen. Not only that but you like to belittle people. It seems Micah in particular is being targeted by you as you seem to stir up trouble/comment only in his articles.

You never answered my previous question as well. Who plagiarizes something and yet links to it very obviously in bold "Article Link"? You can't seem to accept the fact that it was an honest mistake. You remind me of Jack Thompson. By any chance did you go to the same law school?

Also, tbe course of action should of been:
1) PM Micah
2) Wait for reply from Micah. If no reply received in a relatively timely manner then do #3
3) Get in contact with the webmaster/editor and again wait for enough time for him to reply if no reply then do step #4
4) Get in contact with TheRegister
5) Let TheRegister deal with it as you are not their attorney

Making this into a public scene is very very unprofessional (especially over a mistake of forgetting quotes). My two cents.

Again, rather obvious you are trying to defend Micah, you continue you do so in your posts by seemingly declaring Micah’s infallibility. This all points to one single conclusion, you are Micah’s brown nose, plane and simple.

I also apologize for offending, as it seems I did, but your own actions have pointed me into this direction, also, your rather pointed attempt at insulting me: “Some (ie: you) did not see it.”

That had no effect on me, in fact, it just showed me that I appear to be right. You just displayed a hot temper and a total lack of restraint. You also used an Ad Hominem attack, by trying to insult my intelligence. I hope you will think more carefully before trying to assault me again.


Oh, yes, this IS a neutral discussion, and example of a heated debate:http://www.neoseeker.com/news/story/7100/

Be glad you have not found yourself amidst one of these debates.


September 14th, 2007 5:21PM(PST)
iamjoe56
Sorry about my forgetting the quote marks.
September 14th, 2007 5:33PM(PST)
iamjoe56
Oh I forgot to say, Tekmosis, that I did not assume anything in my post. I followed the bread crumbs.
September 14th, 2007 7:37PM(PST)
MicahWrites
A cigar is just a cigar, splitting hairs, step back to step further, and a new one, making mountains out of mole hills.

Why does it seem that I'm the only one who isn't all flustered and frustrated by the little and inconsequential things?

A thorough lack of sleep, that's it!
September 14th, 2007 8:52PM(PST)
tekmosis
If you took what I said as an attempt to insult you, you're sorely mistaken. If you're used in an example do you take everything as an attack towards you? "Lots of people love video games, such as Dave". I could of said Cillchaoi instead. Who else was I supposed to use in my example? You're the only two in this article that stated you did not see the joke.

I suggest you read up on what kissing up/kissing ass/sucking up/brown nosing really means. When someone attacks a co-worker over a simple mistake I'm not going to sit idly by. If I accused your friend, family member, etc over something which they had made an honest mistake would you not step up and say something or would you just sit back and watch as said person gets falsely accused? This is btw actually called slander. Think about that for a second. Now, reassess what you've been saying. Clearly you do not fully comprehend what you commenting on.

However amusing this is, if you want to continue this discussion feel free to send me a pm or even shoot me off an email: tekmosis@neoseeker.com (:
September 15th, 2007 7:42AM(PST)
Diablos
Micah shouldn't have to defend himself from tongue-in-cheek comments, this isn't Tehran people. Lay off.
September 15th, 2007 1:17PM(PST)
tallteen86
Now, I personally saw the whole joke with the deal on the $200 off an iPhone...

If anybody here didn't, then...well, they either take everything too seriously (absolutely no sense of humor), or are just...lacking in intelligence -_-

Its plain as day that the so called 'deal' was a joke...if you know ANYTHING at all about business, you'll know that 'deal' to be absurd, in other words, it didn't happen, therefor, the article writer was likely making a joke >_>

Personally, I find no fault in Micah adding that satirical joke, since to most people who actually would actually be interested in reading this stuff, should be able to figure that out...and if they can't, they fall into the two categories of people I mentioned earlier...

Now, if it was a FREE iPhone, I'd believe it /another satirical joke.

Even my brother, who I find to be somewhat...thick (well, he is 11) would probably get that the so called 'deal' was rediculous...OK, maybe not...$200 is a lot to him, I suppose you should disregard this part >_>
September 15th, 2007 1:33PM(PST)
Raijin1999
Back on topic of the long list of companies who've 'infringed', the reason their list is so long and as extensive (as far as covering 'big dogs' goes), is that any one of them that decides to do the quick and easy, and throw money at them out of court, justifies their motive for, well... business. I'd much rather see them snuffed out than get away with this crap.
September 15th, 2007 2:30PM(PST)
skythelegend
I didn't see it as a joke but I did think it was funny how they'd accept $200 for a phone rather than sueing

when it was explained away as a joke though I was relieved that people aren't "that" stupid

but then I saw Cillchaoi's comments and he looked like he was trying to why there should be no "freedom of speach"

it's our right dammit
September 15th, 2007 3:26PM(PST)
DeathMonkey
I recognised the comment to be a joke right away, there isn't a problem with it. This arguement over it was pretty much ridiculous, you got any idea how much time is took me to read through all of that when all I wanted to do was say I wished that Premier International Associates would die
September 15th, 2007 4:47PM(PST)
iamjoe56
Ok, people, for one I do not keep current on apple related matters, second, I tend to stay out of tech news in the most part. I only read and comment what I find on neo seeker. So...quite inplying that I am not smart enough to nitice this stuff.
September 16th, 2007 6:48PM(PST)
leah
What kind of crazy patents will this group inspire? I imagined in this online comic:
http://www.itgumbo.com/mumbogumbo/2007/09/pay_for_play.php
September 17th, 2007 10:38AM(PST)
Hinata2007
Look I'm not here to offend or anything but...

WHAT KIND OF MORON HAS SO LITTLE TO DO THAT THEY ARE GONNA SIT AND ARGUE ABOUT WHETHER THE READER UNDERSTOOD A JOKE OR NOT?!?!

I have a few things I'd like to say.

1.) I'll be straight up... I thought that it was fact that they took the 200$ off thing. I'm not sure how other people felt. I think the person who wrote the article should just fess up they made a mistake about it and end it.

2.) I don't think a patent should be allowed unless you have a working product. Stupid patents like "something that might do this or that" is an absurd thing to do. It makes you wonder what kind of place they are running there. After all, aren't they the ones that let Trump patent the lines.."your fired"? It makes me wanna patent some lines of my own... Retaaaaaaaaarded! Oh wait... Did Carlos Mencia patent those?!?!

3.)And what kind of backwater *bleep* jury would actually find something smart in a case like this? But sigh... I guess we will always find someone willing to sue for anything.
September 17th, 2007 1:31PM(PST)
iamjoe56
"A man's grammar, like Caesar's wife, must not only be pure, but above
suspicion of impurity." -- Edgar Allan Poe



I just though I'd share this, it may help to clear up some of the issues here.
September 17th, 2007 1:52PM(PST)
MicahWrites
Could someone please edit this for both spelling and grammar.

"Ok, people, for one I do not keep current on apple related matters, second, I tend to stay out of tech news in the most part. I only read and comment what I find on neo seeker. So...quite inplying that I am not smart enough to nitice this stuff."

I counted 9.

Also, if anyone feels so inclined to do so they may printout my new posting and present it to their English teacher, journalist, author or novelist to ask them if "
Steve Jobs cut 'em a deal on the iPhone, $200 dollars off." is a mater of grammar or prose.
September 17th, 2007 2:08PM(PST)
kspiess
It's more so a matter of prose. Your sentence contains 2 'rhetorical devices'...first one being a synecdoche (where Steve Jobs is made to represent Apple Corporation) and the second device being a hyperbole ("cut'em a deal on the iPhone, $200 dollars off" being an exaggeration intended for comedic effect).
September 17th, 2007 2:16PM(PST)
iamjoe56
Micah,




“ Could someone please edit this for both spelling and grammar.”


For one, you make plenty of spelling mistakes yourself, I am sure.
But what really drives me up a tree is your love of insulting me. Now, if you so fully wish to engage in yet another battle of the words [and spelling and grammar] then so be it. Let the opening shot be fired. The quote above serves as that shot.


Your totally irresponsible manner of, again, questioning my spelling and grammar is becoming so loathsome as to make the most hardened person, vomit. I do not understand why you attack me, yet again, after I so simply put up a Quote, from a REAL person. Why does it bother you so much? I put that up as an explanation for My scrutinizing your posts and so on.


“One thing that disturbs me is that so much writing today has no moral framework.” -- Barry Lopez


Oh how true this holds. Read closely Micah, this is aimed at you.


"Ok, people, for one I do not keep current on apple related matters, second, I tend to stay out of tech news in the most part. I only read and comment what I find on neo seeker. So...quite inplying that I am not smart enough to nitice this stuff."

I counted 9.

Also, if anyone feels so inclined to do so they may printout my new posting and present it to their English teacher, journalist, author or novelist to ask them if "
Steve Jobs cut 'em a deal on the iPhone, $200 dollars off." is a mater of grammar or prose.”


Now, if the readers would be so kind, compare that post, I just quoted, to the meaning of the above Quote from Barry Lopez.


Also, Micah, your joke does have to do some with grammar. Satirical comments to tend to need some type on denotation, thus having them fall under a grammatical heading.
So, we now have another problem on our hands. What kind of a writer is Mr. Grunert if he cannot take any type of Criticism on his stories? I fail to see how he hopes to retain merit of any sort with such attitudes as that.



"To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." -- Elbert Hubbard

Wise words indeed, Mr. Grunert. Perhaps you should take them to heart? If you cannot take the heat, get out. A final Quote.



“There are two kinds of writers -- the great ones, who give you truths, and the lesser ones, who give you only themselves.” -- Clifton Fadiman



Again, Mr. Grunert, wise words. Now, correct me if I am wrong [the readers, too] but should someone who has no real credibility, no real morality, no real honor and certainly, no understanding of any reality beyond that of his own making, question a few spelling errors and a missed period? I fail to see how this is just, or in anyway fair or honorable.


I now invite the readers to look forward into what Mr. Grunerts next post will be like.

It will involve his flaunting of his Intelligence, his honor, his restraint, and how I started this whole problem. Oh how I started this.

I will again invite the public to witness Mr. Grunerts humiliation, once more, at the hands of a sixteen year old boy. I say this with the utmost of confidence, Mr. Grunert will be so maddened by my polite, and well though out post, he will fly into Ad Hominem attacks, insults of a vile sort and the like. Place your bets, you good people of the readers section, place your bets!







September 17th, 2007 2:17PM(PST)
Cillchaoi
Hmmm, Micah making comments about the issues of misspellings and other typographical errors when he commits a large number in his articles and comments. It sounds as if someone needs to correct his own problems before attacking others for the same issues. Then again, it has already been shown that Micah does have problems with maturity and handling his own issues anyway.

On a side note, this weekend, I had a luncheon with a group of professionals that meets once a month and showed them the article that started this entire debacle and asked for their comments. Not a single one saw the comment about the settlement phrased in any way that could have been considered anything but a fact in the article. Some did comment that the settlement did seem odd but none saw it as a joke/satire. Further, the attorneys in the group stated that they would classify it as libel at a minimum. One of them got back to me later and stated that, seeing as how NeoSeeker is a small organization that does not appear to pay its reporters yet, as evidenced on this page:

http://neoseeker.com/info/positions.html

what he would do if he were an attorney involved in the settlement would be to contact the Editor-in-Chief and speak with him about the falsehood as well as the legal ramifications of the dishonest reporting.

Beyond this, I did hear back from Mr. Chaikovsky and he stated that he was not amused by the libel. He did not say what action he would take but I would not expect him to do so since that is something that would be between him, his client, and NeoSeeker.
September 17th, 2007 2:30PM(PST)
kspiess
Sigh. Cillchaoi, iamjoe56, you guys have both exhausted much energy trying to annoy Micah. All readers of the involved news stories have read your extensive commentary and are no doubt aware of your relative positions. Why continue on with this endless diatribe...it's like you guys are out on some personal vendetta against Micah or something.

I'm not going to expend much time further describing my feelings about your comments -- I have better things to do. But please, stop wasting your own time Cillchaoi, and iamjoe56. Surely as a teenager, and a owner/operator of your own buisness, you two must have better things to do.
September 17th, 2007 2:34PM(PST)
Cillchaoi
Some quotations that I have found that have relevance are:

Journalists are supposed to owe a duty to reality, not to platforms. -- Jack Fuller

"If a person is not talented enough to be a novelist, not smart enough to be a lawyer, and his hands are too shaky to perform operations, he becomes a journalist." -- Norman Mailer

“What this country needs is more free speech worth listening to.” – Hannsell B. Duckett
September 17th, 2007 2:34PM(PST)
iamjoe56
I understand you position, Kspiess. But Again, Micah insulted me me.

"Could someone please edit this for both spelling and grammar.

"Ok, people, for one I do not keep current on apple related matters, second, I tend to stay out of tech news in the most part. I only read and comment what I find on neo seeker. So...quite inplying that I am not smart enough to nitice this stuff."

I counted 9.

Also, if anyone feels so inclined to do so they may printout my new posting and present it to their English teacher, journalist, author or novelist to ask them if "
Steve Jobs cut 'em a deal on the iPhone, $200 dollars off." is a mater of grammar or prose."

So I am asking this, should I simply lie back while he attacks me, again, over a simple Quote? I have no rea ldesire to annoy him anyways. But I will not allow him to insult me.

September 17th, 2007 2:44PM(PST)
MicahWrites
iamjoe56 & Cillchaoi

Why don't you two meet and talk about all this stuff over coffee or tea or some other steeped beverage that's both flavorful and relaxing.

I mean honestly, the two of you live only a hour or so away from one each other and have knowen one another for a few years now. iamjoe56, it was your mother that introduced the two of you, was it not?

It wasn't an attack either, just a poke back for implying that an American authors' quote about some guys wife 800 years before his time has some bearing upon my composition skills.
September 17th, 2007 2:44PM(PST)
Cillchaoi
Kevin,

What I originally tried to do in this thread was the same thing Dave tried to do: find out the source of the "fact" that the settlement was for a $200 discount on an iPhone. After that, I gave some free professional advice to Micah about how best to be a professional journalist but he decided to try to hurl insults instead. Now, just out of interest to see if I were off the mark, I did present copies of the article (without all the following commentary) to others in a group with which I met this weekend and found that there was nothing in error about my interpretation of the article as it stood nor in my interpretation of the legal position.

I am not out to attack Micah specifically but he does set himself up for attack easily by spewing statements phrased as fact and putting out "facts" that are inaccurate. Further, he does lower himself to a very low level by making ad hominem attacks when he is countered in an intellectual discussion.

He has shown himself to lack professionalism repeatedly and it would be best if someone above him in this organization would have a discussion with him about his bad attitude and his inappropriate actions. As he continues unabated, it seems that has not happened yet. Permitting his acts to continue diminishes NeoSeeker in the public eye. If NeoSeeker's goal is to obtain a reputation for being a source of good information, then those in a position to do so should step in and take appropriate actions against Micah for giving it a black eye with his immature, unethical, and illegal acts.
September 17th, 2007 3:09PM(PST)
iamjoe56
First off, yes, me and Cill know each other, second, keep my family out of this.

Third, how do you know he and I are friends?
September 17th, 2007 3:36PM(PST)
MicahWrites
First off, I'm happy that you two are fiends since friends are important.

Second, I'm not attacking your family, I'm simply acknowledging the fact that it was most likely your mother that introduced you to him.

Third, there's more information available to certain people though certain channels (and I'm not talking about the Internet) than most of the population is aware of.

And to add a fourth, I just thought perhaps that the two of you could save the pot shots and quick little quips upon how the two of you question my character. Maybe save for your own discussions and not subject the other readers to off hand and irrelevant subjects.

And to pull out a fourth, could we start a poll to see how many people woulf like to have the term 'ad hominem' banned?

Try smearing, slanderous, defaming, discouraging, etc.
September 17th, 2007 3:47PM(PST)
Cillchaoi
Micah,

Pot shots? Question of your character? Irrelevant subjects? All I can say is for you to look at what you have done both in this and in other areas on this website: make up information that you present as fact, commit plagiarism, make completely out-of-line personal attacks against users of this website, refuse to acknowledge when appropriate and accurate information has been presented, and above all, refuse to take responsibility for your misdeeds and wrongful actions. These are the reasons that I have issues with you.

It would behoove you to make sure to act professionally and responsibly as a journalist and as a representative of this website and to take make amends by issuing a public apology for your misdeeds without further attacks or excuses. There is no excuse for plagiarism, libel, or grade-school-level attacks (such as calling names as you have done).
September 17th, 2007 3:54PM(PST)
iamjoe56
I told you, micah, to leave my family out of the discussion, I neve one said you attacked them, second, only blind people take pot shots.

As for swearing ,yes I do that, but to directly swear at you, only lowers myself to your level.
September 19th, 2007 9:46AM(PST)
Hinata2007
If I have to keep hearing you guys bitch and moan on every aricle I may just leave this site. Cause it's getting pretty damn annoying to read an article then listen to you guys attack each other. Seriously, it's annoying as hell. Can't we all just get along?!?!
September 30th, 2007 1:31PM(PST)
jonnyblack1301
They also forgot Adobe.
October 12th, 2007 9:48AM(PST)
LordShotGun
Seriously, you guys all need to calm down and stop trading insults. i like hearing all three of you Micah, iamjoe56, and cillchaoi on other news items but this constant attacks on each other have to stop.

This is one of my best sites to find information i care about and all three of you are ruining this experience for other people including myself.

Respectfuly could all of you just get along with each other and post relevent information about what topic is meationed in this artical.

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