Neoseeker : News : Microsoft Vista desktops don't play well with Linux servers.
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SillyPuddee Aug 31, 07
Is every single article on neoseeker anti-microsoft?
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MicahWrites Aug 31, 07
Nope, of course not. But if someone can point me in the direction of some Linux distro wreaking havoc upon the public, I'll write about it. OSX doesn't cause many difficulties for usrs.

But for some reason, Windows just happens to be that one OS that spawns these huge news worthy stories.

Besides, as I had pointed out in the article, the onus falls upon both parties involved to work together to find an equitable solution.
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Guest Sep 2, 07
There is no need to "open windows to let penguin in" just follow the rfc's that document these protocols.
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Guest Sep 2, 07
MicahWrites,

This Linux admin wont give details, wont tell us the problem, and wont tell Microsoft how to fix it...But stands by his "Vista is Bugged"...Come on, this is a BS story and you know it.

TCP/IP is TCP/IP on all systems. This Linux admin is blocking packet headers that contain "Windows or NT" and trying to make it look like a Microsoft problem??

Your a noob sir.
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Guest Sep 2, 07
I disagree that it is the responsibility of the Swedish city to test Microsoft's apps beforehand.

The Internet isn't a creation of Microsoft, who other people need to work to play nice with, it's an international standard that's not going away anytime soon, whether MS lasts another 50 years or folds tomorrow.

If Ford comes out with a revolutionary new kind of engine, should each gas company be forced to buy one of the new model to see if their gas works in the car, then create a new formula if not?

Gas is a standard fuel and the Internet is a standard network. It is up to the developer of the product that uses these standards to make sure they're producing a compliant product.

While it would be nice for the city to give detailed bug reports to MS, to help explain exactly what's going on, this shouldn't be needed. MS shouldn't even need a Linux server in house to see if Vista will behave well. All MS has to do is make sure THEIR system obeys then standard. Once they do, if it still doesn't work, they can pass the blame back to the Linux server.

At this point MS needs to

a: Fix Vista (or prove it is obeying the standard and the Linux server isn't)

or

b: Declare they're not going to fix their OS, openly defy the standard and see what happens

Keep in mind, this isn't the 1st attempt of MS to talk with the Net. We've used the Internet WITH Internet Explorer in Windows 3.1 and up. MS has been working more or less reliably for years. Why would this suddenly break / change? Per the article, no mention is made of XP users being hampered.
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Guest Sep 2, 07
Not all TCP/IP protocols are the same, quote taken from MS website,

Microsoft® Windows Vista™ and Windows Server® 2008 include a new implementation of the TCP/IP protocol suite known as the Next Generation TCP/IP stack. The TCP/IP protocol stack provided with Windows® XP and Windows Server 2003 was originally designed in the early 1990s and was modified and enhanced over time to meet the needs of home and enterprise users. The Next Generation TCP/IP stack in Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008 is a complete redesign of TCP/IP functionality for both Internet Protocol version 4 (IPv4) and Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6) that meets the connectivity and performance needs of today's varied networking environments and technologies.
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Guest Sep 2, 07
OkDude, don't be an idiot. MS is to blame for their OS incompatibility. They are the ones not following internet standards. The problem has nothing to do with the server and everything to do with their new OS.

Also, the internet company shouldn't help MS debug their product. Why would they? Is MS paying them for help on fixing their issues? Network standards are known and documented, all MS has to do is follow them to fix the issue. Everyone other OS does, and that is why they work.
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Guest Sep 2, 07
First, I'm not saying the ISP isn't doing something that could be getting in the way of Vista customers. However, in the tech support circles I work in Vista is NOT known for being a very stable product. In one instance our customer put in Vista against our advise, and about a month later finally acknowledged that it would be better on XP and so we back-upgraded them (read: the newer product stinks so bad that an older version is better).
Communications *Standards* are put in place so that everybody is playing by the same rules. TCP/IP was a standard before Microsoft was anywhere near the size they are today, yet they take the liberty to change the protocol when they feel necessary. It seems to me that if a legitimate problem exists between the ISP and a Microsoft related product(Vista) that the ISP could donate perhaps some time in working with Microsoft to resolve the problem. Unfortunately, unless you are a large corporation or significantly sized government customer of Microsoft, getting ahold of somebody at MS who can fix a legitimate programming bug is near impossible. Additionally, if the ISP's systems are truly Internet Standards Compatible (in tech speak RFC compliant) it is not their responsibility to insure that every product on the market can communicate to the internet. It's up to the product maker to comply with standards.

Finally, I've personally experienced where patches from Microsoft that change their implementation of TCP/IP have broken Linux based networks. KB893066(a Microsoft Identifier for their update) was meant to address security problems in TCP/IP, but because it was a Microsoft-change and not an Internet-Standards change several computers that were connected over an office-to-office VPN link (read: office-to-office secure communications channel) could not function. The Linux based part here was a Watchguard-Branch-Office-VPN solution, where Watchguard products run on Linux ; Note: Watchguard is a popular international company that produces firewall and related software.
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Guest Sep 2, 07
Johnny 5, if the admin does not provide any details of the "bug" and refuses to talk, then he is looking like he's making sh*t up. On the flip side, it's the linux admin that might be doing some weird non-standard configs on his servers. We just don't know. MS was willing to look into it, but if they hit a brick wall from uncooperative linux-geek-MS-hater admin, then that's all there is to it: NO VISTA FOR U!
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Guest Sep 2, 07
Funny, how Vista's TCP/IP stack is now compliant with the DHCP standard and the Linux implementation is not and this is a Vista problem. Boo.....
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Guest Sep 2, 07
"Lundis Energi should have been testing Vista back in its early alpha release stages to ensure compatibility with their Linux based server system."

Why? Why should they waste time testing Microsoft's crap, it's up to M$ to test their stuff not everyone else!
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Guest Sep 2, 07
Sure, it's MS's fault. This is the only place in the world where Vista won't work with the entire network. Maybe Vista has a problem with their TCP/IP stack, maybe it doesn't. How can anyone tell with a bonehead sysadmin that refuses to help.

I'm pretty sure it's the users choice to run whatever OS they want to run, and it sounds like some of them here want to run Vista. Great customer service by this Swedish SA in not helping his customers achieve what they want to achieve. Sounds like an immature little hater that can't wrap his head around a simple problem.

There are so many things wrong with this article, I'm suprised it got published. Does this really even make sense? Is there a rift in the space time continuum in this particular town that is causing this problem? Maybe the newly invented invisibility cloak is shielding all common sense from the writer and the goofy sys admin. Who knows... but this article is utter rubbish.
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Guest Sep 2, 07
Packet headers that contain "windows nt"? I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. In order for someone to selectively block HTTP traffic originating from IE, the TCP connection would either have to terminate on the ISP's devices, or they would have to be filtering all HTTP traffic an introspecting it for the USER-AGENT string in web request. This wouldn't identify other types of traffic besides HTTP anyway.

There's an actual, technical problem here, TCP/IP is not TCP/IP as has been claimed. But we can't easily pinpoint the issue without more technical details.
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Guest Sep 2, 07
Just a short comment.
I don't know how many of you actually write software. Well I do for multiple platforms. And I can't tell you how aggravating it is when a user comes over to my cube and tells me it is broken without any details. Come on people bugs exist. How can you fix it if the admin won't at least tell you what is being broken? Any time I have run into a bug in someone else's code I at least offer them a starting point or I work with the person to figure out what has gone wrong.
Remember what I said before Bugs happen that's life. But to be hardnosed and not tell the dev what is wrong is even worse.

Just my 2 cents,
Douglas
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