Neoseeker : News : Sony patent allows tracking of second-hand games and the ability to block their usage
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THM Jan 8, 13
quote Ded Valve
quote THM
Yes, even Master Plan can be changed or postpone or defer or (even stopped entirely) depends on the global/national/local economy.

Yes, previous consoles have been planned for years in-advanced, but if the global/national economy changes these plans are nothing but old papers on the agenda table.

Remember: there's always a contingency plan that takes over the original plan which never comes to exist as expected before, in this case, PS4 and Xbox 720 will be delayed for some time.

Every game/console tend to be delayed by unforeseen circumstances. Just don't expect/anticipate that strategic planning or Master Plan will lead to a success in-time!! It never happend in reality, folks (unless of course, Jesus make a plan himself).
Of course there are contingencies and backup plans that change on the fly but to allow the competition to get a headstart for more than 2 years is not only crazy but can hurt you in the long haul as third party support will flock to Nintendo.

Not only that but the market isn't in such a horrible condition as you portray that consoles can't be succesful. Just look at the 3DS and the WiiU. The WiiU while struggling is definitely pulling it's own weight despite not having many huge first party titles that really push Nintendo consoles forward, and the 3DS has been outperforming the original DS in the same lifetime. Add on top of a newcomer in the console hardware group Valve which is also gunning for a release either this year or early next year and Microsofts/Sony lack of lineup in late 2013/2014, all signs point to MULTIPLE console releases this year.

By the way you constantly mention the global economy and what state is the global economy in now so bad that new consoles cannot possibly sell and how would you know that this supposedly "down" economy will improve in 2015? You've brought no evidence to suggest that a new console can't perform this year when WiiU has already refuted that point.
I know, because I'm a Planner, I plan for the government and private organisations...I know the global/national/local economy will get more momentum after 2013 or 14!!

Surely, I don't need a guy like you to give an evidence, I know by my experience! Period.
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Socialist Gamer Jan 8, 13
Ded Valve, You'd better listen to THM!! He's a Master of Planning!!

Dad Valve: Do you how the planning of global/national/local systmes work? Do you have a tertiary degree? Do you know how companies use planner? You're just describing your opinion, it's fine. But it's not tangible from a professional poin of view! You're just a layman!

Don't argue with THM, I know you'll lose. Yes, PS4 will delay, Yes, Sony is still a ballsy company and can make money after one or two years delay of next gen release.
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Zombie_Barioth Jan 9, 13
quote Socialist Gamer
Ded Valve, You'd better listen to THM!! He's a Master of Planning!!

Dad Valve: Do you how the planning of global/national/local systmes work? Do you have a tertiary degree? Do you know how companies use planner? You're just describing your opinion, it's fine. But it's not tangible from a professional poin of view! You're just a layman!

Don't argue with THM, I know you'll lose. Yes, PS4 will delay, Yes, Sony is still a ballsy company and can make money after one or two years delay of next gen release.
Do you? You do know what you sound like right now, right?

The 3DS outselling DS and Wii U pulling its weight doesn't say really say much. Nintendo stuff sells well anyway, but what percent of the sales numbers aren't "hardcore" fans that buy their stuff day one anyway? The 3DS sales could just be reflecting our society's overall shift towards being on the go and mobile platforms. They're also much cheaper than consoles so are much easier to afford when money is tight and handhelds also seem to be the go to present for kids, heck my first "console" was a GBC.

Its not that consoles can't be successful but it might be alot hard with much less room for error. Also the "steam box" is more or less an HTPC with modular parts from my understanding, not a console.
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S-I-E Jan 9, 13
quote Socialist Gamer
Ded Valve, You'd better listen to THM!! He's a Master of Planning!!

Dad Valve: Do you how the planning of global/national/local systmes work? Do you have a tertiary degree? Do you know how companies use planner? You're just describing your opinion, it's fine. But it's not tangible from a professional poin of view! You're just a layman!

Don't argue with THM, I know you'll lose. Yes, PS4 will delay, Yes, Sony is still a ballsy company and can make money after one or two years delay of next gen release.
hush sputnik, it's beautiful 0_0
THM in a console discussion with ded valve, it puts the odds of panda sex to shame it does.
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DedValve Jan 9, 13
quote Zombie_Barioth
quote Socialist Gamer
Ded Valve, You'd better listen to THM!! He's a Master of Planning!!

Dad Valve: Do you how the planning of global/national/local systmes work? Do you have a tertiary degree? Do you know how companies use planner? You're just describing your opinion, it's fine. But it's not tangible from a professional poin of view! You're just a layman!

Don't argue with THM, I know you'll lose. Yes, PS4 will delay, Yes, Sony is still a ballsy company and can make money after one or two years delay of next gen release.
Do you? You do know what you sound like right now, right?

The 3DS outselling DS and Wii U pulling its weight doesn't say really say much. Nintendo stuff sells well anyway, but what percent of the sales numbers aren't "hardcore" fans that buy their stuff day one anyway? The 3DS sales could just be reflecting our society's overall shift towards being on the go and mobile platforms. They're also much cheaper than consoles so are much easier to afford when money is tight and handhelds also seem to be the go to present for kids, heck my first "console" was a GBC.

Its not that consoles can't be successful but it might be alot hard with much less room for error. Also the "steam box" is more or less an HTPC with modular parts from my understanding, not a console.
Nintendo doesn't sell on name alone or else the Gamecube wouldn't have been such a failure sales wise. The WiiU came out with confusing advertisement (was it an addon for the wii? Is a very common question asked at the local Gamestop), high price point, an archaic online system, buggy and slow OS and the biggest of them all hardly any Nintendo first party games outside of NSMBU and NintendoLand and overpriced third party games (Batman and ME3). It's obviously not pulling the numbers of a wii (which was a fluke) but in spite of all the cards held against the WiiU it has been performing on or above average in nearly all regions. Nintendo (outside of ridiculous console names) have really wisened up this past generation and the success of the 3DS and WiiU proves that. That said it looked like they made a bad move by relying on the success of the Wii and thought they could recreate that with the WiiU, their original forecast of 5.5 million sales by the end of march globally probably won't be. http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-57562396-235/nintendo-chief-iwata-wii-u-sales-not-bad/

Of course competition is more tense now with Google and Apple and overall console sales have lowered yet on average their install base keeps growing in the long run which is why it seems like Microsoft and Sony are so focused on getting new consoles out by the end of the year to insure that the WiiU install base doesn't get too big or even worse allow a new competitor to enter the fray with almost no direct competition (Valve).


Of course I'm not a Government Planner who's a master at planning so what do I know huh?
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THM Jan 9, 13
quote Ded Valve
quote Zombie_Barioth
quote Socialist Gamer
Ded Valve, You'd better listen to THM!! He's a Master of Planning!!

Dad Valve: Do you how the planning of global/national/local systmes work? Do you have a tertiary degree? Do you know how companies use planner? You're just describing your opinion, it's fine. But it's not tangible from a professional poin of view! You're just a layman!

Don't argue with THM, I know you'll lose. Yes, PS4 will delay, Yes, Sony is still a ballsy company and can make money after one or two years delay of next gen release.
Do you? You do know what you sound like right now, right?

The 3DS outselling DS and Wii U pulling its weight doesn't say really say much. Nintendo stuff sells well anyway, but what percent of the sales numbers aren't "hardcore" fans that buy their stuff day one anyway? The 3DS sales could just be reflecting our society's overall shift towards being on the go and mobile platforms. They're also much cheaper than consoles so are much easier to afford when money is tight and handhelds also seem to be the go to present for kids, heck my first "console" was a GBC.

Its not that consoles can't be successful but it might be alot hard with much less room for error. Also the "steam box" is more or less an HTPC with modular parts from my understanding, not a console.
Nintendo doesn't sell on name alone or else the Gamecube wouldn't have been such a failure sales wise. The WiiU came out with confusing advertisement (was it an addon for the wii? Is a very common question asked at the local Gamestop), high price point, an archaic online system, buggy and slow OS and the biggest of them all hardly any Nintendo first party games outside of NSMBU and NintendoLand and overpriced third party games (Batman and ME3). It's obviously not pulling the numbers of a wii (which was a fluke) but in spite of all the cards held against the WiiU it has been performing on or above average in nearly all regions. Nintendo (outside of ridiculous console names) have really wisened up this past generation and the success of the 3DS and WiiU proves that. That said it looked like they made a bad move by relying on the success of the Wii and thought they could recreate that with the WiiU, their original forecast of 5.5 million sales by the end of march globally probably won't be. http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-57562396-235/nintendo-chief-iwata-wii-u-sales-not-bad/

Of course competition is more tense now with Google and Apple and overall console sales have lowered yet on average their install base keeps growing in the long run which is why it seems like Microsoft and Sony are so focused on getting new consoles out by the end of the year to insure that the WiiU install base doesn't get too big or even worse allow a new competitor to enter the fray with almost no direct competition (Valve).


Of course I'm not a Government Planner who's a master at planning so what do I know huh?
I'm glad that it has been an energetic online discussion overarching various issues/policies so far!
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Zombie_Barioth Jan 9, 13
quote Ded Valve
Nintendo doesn't sell on name alone or else the Gamecube wouldn't have been such a failure sales wise. The WiiU came out with confusing advertisement (was it an addon for the wii? Is a very common question asked at the local Gamestop), high price point, an archaic online system, buggy and slow OS and the biggest of them all hardly any Nintendo first party games outside of NSMBU and NintendoLand and overpriced third party games (Batman and ME3). It's obviously not pulling the numbers of a wii (which was a fluke) but in spite of all the cards held against the WiiU it has been performing on or above average in nearly all regions. Nintendo (outside of ridiculous console names) have really wisened up this past generation and the success of the 3DS and WiiU proves that. That said it looked like they made a bad move by relying on the success of the Wii and thought they could recreate that with the WiiU, their original forecast of 5.5 million sales by the end of march globally probably won't be. http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-57562396-235/nintendo-chief-iwata-wii-u-sales-not-bad/

Of course competition is more tense now with Google and Apple and overall console sales have lowered yet on average their install base keeps growing in the long run which is why it seems like Microsoft and Sony are so focused on getting new consoles out by the end of the year to insure that the WiiU install base doesn't get too big or even worse allow a new competitor to enter the fray with almost no direct competition (Valve).
I never said they sell on name alone, just that Nintendo stuff sells well in general and rarely are there any flat-out flops. The Wii U has been doing pretty well, sales numbers aren't what was expected but that may be be from a change in market trends, stronger (and alot more) competition, money, or any other possible problems.
Last edited by Zombie_Barioth :: Jan 10, 13
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allen33and88 Jan 10, 13
Expect xbox and wii scales to sky rocket i this holds water. This would seriously have me contemplating going xbox or wii.
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Shave ya Head Jan 10, 13
One thing i just thought about guys. Why would Sony patent this?

Maybe its the law or they have something up their sleeve but otherwise why? I mean they've blocked Xbox from using this particular method, therefore shooting themselves in the foot again.
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Mnmfan Jan 11, 13
^ I was thinking the exact same thing. The company that uses this feature will inevitably see a drop in sales. Sony should be happy to let MS use this tech.
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Misato Jan 17, 13
Note to self: Don't buy any new Sony consoles. I like buying second hand games on games I heard are good/look interesting but not willing to drop $50-60 on. This will just be more of a motivation for people to pirate stuff because if they don't like the game they can delete it and be out just the time it took to download, whereas with this they'll be out the entire cost of the game and can't resell it so it isn't a complete loss.
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Shave ya Head Jan 17, 13
That's an aspect I never thought of Misato. I'm very picky about games now so imagine I pay £40 for a game and don't like it. Which by the way happens alot these days. Think I'll stick with PC thank you.
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Lorx Jan 19, 13
Saw this coming a mile away, was wondering when Sony or Microsoft would make a move.

Video games are not physical objects. When you go to the store and pay $60 for Call of Guns: Black Cops 3, it is not because you really want that shiny disc and it's package. You're paying for the data it contains, data meant to give an experience, not something you buy specifically just to hold an object. The disc is like a ticket for a movie theater, it's your ability to enter the showing room for the media you wish to consume. Should you be able to resell the ticket after it's served it's purpose? Of course not, it has done what it was meant to do. Being able to sell it to somebody else at that point would not help the people who made the movie at all, or even the theater showing it.

Buying used games is the same thing as pirating from the viewpoint of developers and publishers. When you buy a used game, they get no profit, only the distributor gets profit. While making games for the love of the field is great, it still requires quite a lot of money to do, and people need to get paid. They need to be able to afford food and housing. In the last month alone neoseeker has had articles on three different developers/publishers who are having huge financial issues. Including THQ, who publishes some fairly popular titles.

How do I know a platform without used games could work? How am I not angry? Well, I'm a PC gamer. I've been living in that world for five years. I own quite a few games on Steam that I cannot resell. In the absence of used game, Steam has big sales multiple times a year. My 249 games, at full price last month, would have cost a grand total of $3,462.29 plus tax. During the sale? $1597.04 plus tax. Not bad for a collection that's been five years in the making. Will Sony actually step up and put some systems in place to make gaming affordable for the average joe, without used games? No clue. Will they need to? Yes. Definitely yes.

I would not be surprised in the least to see Microsoft announce something similar. Used game sales are not a good thing for the industry, and now with digital distribution being a strong enough release platform where AAA can use it, will definitely start to see physical retailers and used game sales get shut out of the picture.
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oni_hero Jan 19, 13
What gets me is if they do use this to block used games..... Then my routine that I have done time and time again would be shot if I were to buy a ps4.

Like just yesterday, I traded in 3 games, got 32 bucks back, and bought 1600 microsoft points, then browsed for a cheap game I could play, and hey, Fallout 3, one of my all time favorite games, for 7 bucks! So now I have new far cry 3 content, points toward Mass effect 3 Omega, and FALL OUT 3! I love doing this! Don't take this away from me!
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Zombie_Barioth Jan 19, 13
Lorx You definitely have a point, but going after the consumers end of things isn't the answer. Games are frequently compared to other media where the second-hand market is concerned but thats the whole problem. Why do people complain about loosing used sales for games but not anything else?

Its the price, you can get a new movie, album, or book for the price of a day or two's worth of lunches, while a new game is 2-3x that. Either the way second-hand sales are done needs to change (i.e. royalty fees from companies) or a better digital price model needs to be put in place. It works for the rest of the entertainment industry with itunes, e-readers, and on-demand, and sites like steam or GOG prove it works for games, the industry just needs to move in the right direction both cost-wise and convenience-wise.

Publishers constantly talk about how digital sales cut cost and make games more affordable, but instead of using that to makes digital sales more attractive (thus getting 100% of the profits) they opt to pocket the difference. Thats not so bad for smaller/niche companies that could probably use it but doesn't give anybody a reason to stop buying and selling their games. Its not like retailers loose their purpose since you can't exactly download a PS4, and this is where games like Skylanders shine as a business model.
Last edited by Zombie_Barioth :: Jan 19, 13
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