Neoseeker : News : Assassin's Creed 3 creative director dismisses Bayonetta, Japanese games as "literally gibberish"
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oni_hero Aug 19, 12
quote Dantess26
I don't think he 'gets' Japanese games. They are artforms, not conforming to your typical Western ideals. Gears of War being a prime example of dullard macho army jargon. True, Japanese games maybe strange and random at times, but at least they are different to one another. Unlike all the carbon-copy war games that dominate the charts here in the Western World. Anyway, he can talk about Nintendo rehashing the same stuff over and over... Assassin's Creed 3 uses a new engine and suddenly he thinks the franchise is innovation personified!
Not trying to be rude here, but really? I can point at any Japanese RPG game made in the past, I would say 10 years, and before playing it tell you it has 3 things.
1. A whiny pre-pubescent teen boy, either as the main character or a side kick.
2. A brooding/quiet tough guy who is either really in touch with his feminine side or carrying some rediculous story about his family.
3. An annoyingly upbeat female character that has an equally annoying voice.

Giving Japanese developers the excuse "It's an artform" is just allowing them to churn out the same shit game after game. True, their are very artistic games that have come from the region, but there are from everywhere! I don't understand his problem with Bayonetta, but hey to each their own I suppose.

oh and Ded Valve My friends and I played the three Gears games for the story.... I don't understand your point there? The games have some very good emotional high and lows, and the story is written pretty well. Sure it won't win any awards, but it is still pretty damn good.

He's got a pretty solid point, a lot of the japanese released games I have played lately have been "What the *bleep*?!?" and giving them the excuse of "Oh you have to understand the artform to get the story" is just a bullshit excuse to cover the recent failings of Japanese developers.
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Dantess26 Aug 19, 12
quote oni_hero
quote Dantess26
I don't think he 'gets' Japanese games. They are artforms, not conforming to your typical Western ideals. Gears of War being a prime example of dullard macho army jargon. True, Japanese games maybe strange and random at times, but at least they are different to one another. Unlike all the carbon-copy war games that dominate the charts here in the Western World. Anyway, he can talk about Nintendo rehashing the same stuff over and over... Assassin's Creed 3 uses a new engine and suddenly he thinks the franchise is innovation personified!
Not trying to be rude here, but really? I can point at any Japanese RPG game made in the past, I would say 10 years, and before playing it tell you it has 3 things.
1. A whiny pre-pubescent teen boy, either as the main character or a side kick.
2. A brooding/quiet tough guy who is either really in touch with his feminine side or carrying some rediculous story about his family.
3. An annoyingly upbeat female character that has an equally annoying voice.

Giving Japanese developers the excuse "It's an artform" is just allowing them to churn out the same shit game after game. True, their are very artistic games that have come from the region, but there are from everywhere! I don't understand his problem with Bayonetta, but hey to each their own I suppose.

oh and Ded Valve My friends and I played the three Gears games for the story.... I don't understand your point there? The games have some very good emotional high and lows, and the story is written pretty well. Sure it won't win any awards, but it is still pretty damn good.

He's got a pretty solid point, a lot of the japanese released games I have played lately have been "What the *bleep*?!?" and giving them the excuse of "Oh you have to understand the artform to get the story" is just a bullshit excuse to cover the recent failings of Japanese developers.
No, No, No. You fail to understand me. To the Japanese, games are an artform. I'm not saying that every game that surfaces from Japanese devs is a masterpiece and a prime example of it's own genre, FAR from it. I think Hutchinson speaks a load of BS, but I agree that Nintendo get away with releasing the same games over and over, without need for new IP's and new characters. They make millions with minimum effort.

The very fact you made those 3 points about 'a whiny pre-pubescent teen boy' and 'an annoyingly upbeat female character that has an equally annoying voice' tells me that YOU yourself don't 'get' what makes Japanese games and culture so popular.

The artform usually comes in the unique look and feel of a Japanese made game, not just the story. The Japanese have their own outlook on designing games. I'd rather have a Japanese-made game that looks and plays differently, with an odd-ball story, than a game that looks the same as a hundred other titles with a mediocre story that's been told a thousand times before.
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Dragoon Aug 19, 12
quote bluexy
Dragoon I don't mean to get spoilerific, but... do they actually clarify that the ones who came before originated on Earth? Or how about where they went to when they left?
It's never explicity stated if they come from Earth, but it is heavily implied by Jupiter saying "We were amongst the first to call Earth our home". As for when they left... they never did. A massive solar flare caused their numbers to reach near extinction and as their numbers dwindled they mated with their human creations to create hybrids. these hybrids were able to use a sixth sense, which in the games is called Eagle Vision. All of which Altair, Ezio, Connor and Desmond have, telling us they are a descendant of the First Civilisation, via mating with humans. Possibly descendants of the first human / first civilisation hybrids - Adam and Eve. So they never left, just died. (:
Staff
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RabidChinaGirl Aug 19, 12
Bottom line: everyone's got opinions.
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Boutros Aug 19, 12
The ridiculous plot is actually one of my favorite things about Bayonetta. You can't criticize a work on something that was never the point of the people behind it. Audiences will naturally expect different things from industries that aspire to different things. Why should we suddenly demand realism from a industry that never needed to focus on it to deliver a good product?

Different artists, different styles, different priorities. That's what gives us true variety of selection and what draws people with varied tastes in.
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oni_hero Aug 19, 12
quote Mystic Aurora
Secondly, gibberish? I'm sorry, I forgot that all games must have rippling, muscley men, almost-naked women, guns, blood, warfare, and cursing to be considered a mind-bending, perfect gaming experience.

Zero Wing has a better story than any stupid-ass "bro" game out there. Gears of War was a disgusting, clunky game that I was completely unable to connect with. (possibly because my gender doesn't match the target demographic, but that's another issue)

American developers need to drop the racism and realize that if they don't start thinking outside the box, Japanese developers will continue to kick their ass in developing games, like they have been since the 70s.

The only non-Japanese developers that've ever delivered a quality gaming experience on a console (for me) are Retro Studios and pre-Microsoft RARE.

Ok just as a rebutal to all of your points here....

I agree with the Mario one, so I edited that out.

Not all western games do that whole speal you just put out, so I will move past that as well.

Zero wing is your opinion, so I won't bag on you for that either.

American developers need to drop the racism.... Um...... No? As in they aren't racist. Japanese developers haven't been kicking anyone's ass as of late. For the past year or so Japanese games, the majority of them at least, have been bombing with outside of japan crowds. Japanese developers themselves have expressed concern over the failing world maket for their games. A lot of the problem falls on the fact that their games fail to connect with a wider audience due to there "Artistic" stance. I am not saying all of the games out of japan, or even the ones that fail to sell are bad games. Hell I enjoy the gaming and programming part of a lot of these games, but the problem is the stories tend to be either a.) hard to follow or b.) too much of a sort of "Inside" thing for japan themselves. They are out of touch with the world market gaming wise. There are some games that are amazing all around, but that number pails to the ones that fail due to not connecting.

As for your last comment, well it's an opinion, but one that appears INCREDIBLY close minded. So you are saying you have never enjoyed a game from Bethesda? Bioware?
Mass Effect, easily one of the most well written games in recent history? Skyrim, one of the best RPG games in recent history? Fall out? Dragon Age?

Seriously, anything said about Western developers pigeon holing their games into the same stock image, can damn near be mirrored right back at japanese developers. If the developers at the top of the japanese community are saying something is wrong, something is wrong.
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RabidChinaGirl Aug 20, 12
Mystic Aurora Hah, I'm like the total opposite of you.

I didn't grow up soaking in Western culture, but Western games appeal to me so much more! After a certain age, I turned away from Eastern games (most, but not all) and haven't much cared to look back.
Mystic Aurora | Aug 20, 12
*** This comment was removed by its author. ***
Staff
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RabidChinaGirl Aug 20, 12
quote Mystic Aurora
You never feel like you're being pandered to with the themes and dialogue?
Actually, that's how I feel about Eastern games. Not everyone likes every sort of game ever. Fortunately, options exist, and no one is forcing you to like anything you don't want to like.

I do enjoy hypermasculine beefcake as long as its not taken too seriously. Bulletstorm, though imperfect, doesn't try to force you into approaching it with a straight face. But hypermasculinity is not the theme I read in all Western games, though a beefy dude (or fully armored Spartan) is certainly a welcome change of pace from having boobs (and ass) shoved in my face.

Every culture and its products have their own problems. But they also have their own appeal.

Edit: Of course, all this is generalization. Not all Asian games are the same, and not all Western games are the same. Derp. (Case in point: I like shooters but with a sci-fi twist. Don't particularly care for "realistic" military games like COD, BF, MOH, etc.)
Last edited by RabidChinaGirl :: Aug 20, 12
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Boreas Aug 20, 12
Got to agree. I hate playing beefcake characters who always win in the end. Why can't we just get a game where you play a murderous teenager who goes around killing people because he believes that doing so will fix the world, who eventually gets caught. Like Deathnote.

T'was a good manga
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oni_hero Aug 20, 12
It just seems a bit hypocritical to can Western developers for games that seem to force in sex appeal when there are entire genres in japan about Girls and the disgusting sex acts that happen to them. That and there are developers over there that work on "accurate breast physics". Come one, you will never see a western developer with a bulletpoint on the back of the box reading "Real Breast motion!" Yet Japan is releasing games like Dead or Alive Extreme beach volleyball 1 and 2 world wide, not to mention the SMUT they put out pertaining to schoolgirls and tentacle monsters.

Boreas Really? You don't see why they can't make that game? School Shootings? Bullying? Teen suicides? Seems like it would bomb souly off the fact that the critics and developers wouldn't want a thing to do with something as touchy as Teen violence.

Close thing though, Lollipop chainsaw. Teenage girl carrying her disembodied boyfriend's head around all while killing her former classmates? Fun! Plus it's ok because they are zombies, not people.
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Boreas Aug 21, 12
oni_hero: So it's alright if a game like GTA (anything) is okay, so long as its just adults brutally murdering other adults, but a teenager killing corrupt adults leads to bullying and teen suicide? Excellent logic! [sarcasm]
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DedValve Aug 21, 12
quote Mystic Aurora
RabidChinaGirl: You never feel like you're being pandered to with the themes and dialogue? It feels fake and forced, borderline pretentious. Bulletstorm is a great example of that sort of thing.

It's like "You're supposed to like this. Men like this! Aren't you a man!?" Yes, but not _that_ kind of man. I guess I fail for not wanting to be hypermasculine beefcake.
To be fair though, your doing exactly what Hutchinson is doing and taking a game that isn't meant to have a deep and rich story and using it as an excuse, same way he used Bayonetta. Bullestorm never took itself seriously, now if you used Gears which did take itself seriously (and outside the amazing novels and graphic novels the game itself failed miserably at grasping a true war story, even Cliffy B admits it) then yeah you'd have a point.

Both markets suffer from sticking to a guidline of what a protagonist/antagonist should be like all too much. Eastern markets are overflowing with asexual androgynous, crazy hair pretty boys and hyper sexualized girls just as western markets are overflowing with bald/shaved headed brooding soldiers that scream "manly men do manly things with manly menly guns" and both markets fill the streets with their version of how men/women should act or be, it's like that all across the world. Both markets are at fault but that doesn't stop that both markets have a plethora of games that completely throw away these extremely stereotypical tropes in favor of something fresh and new.

Western: Halo (kat, good lord kat), Valve (Alyx, Zoey, anyone really), Rockstar (Niko, John Marston), Bioware (Shepard, practically anyone from ME) etc.
Eastern: Capcom (Jill pre-RE5, Claire, Leon and Chris Pre-re4), Konami (Heather, Snake, Big Boss), Team Ico (Ico) etc.

These are all great characters that break from the mold and I'm just scratching the surface, there are plenty of games with original, inventive gameplay or stories, you just gotta take the time to look for them sadly in a world where half the games are war games and the other half are typical jrpgs.
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Zombie_Barioth Aug 21, 12
Boreas I think hes just talking about the controversy it could drudge up. The press and everyone else had a fit with GTA to begin with blaming everything on it, I could only imagine the field day they would have if kids or teenagers where fair game. I do think a game that stayed true to the series but used a style similar to The Hunger Games or 999 would work well.

As for the other part I agree western culture puts far too much stock in the "ideal" man/woman. Weather overly buff men and twig women or the Mr./Mrs. perfect you see in most non-action genres everything has it. Even most popular comic book characters, they usually combine both sides of the spectrum. Compare iron man or super man to spider man or the x-men, even batman is closer to James Bond than them. The only ones with an excuse are Thor and the Hulk.
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oni_hero Aug 23, 12
Boreas Really though? You don't see the logic in that? Recent shootings caused movies that had NOTHING to do with any of the situations to be edited and moved back. Mob Squad? Hell, the Dark Knight rises commercials were edited to take out some of the violence. Whatever that new Step up movie is had it's ads edited to take out a gas mask scene...... A DANCE MOVIE EDITED COMMERCIALS TO AVOID BEING PULLED INTO THE CONTROVERSY. So you really think a game where a teenage brutally murders people under the impression that he is bettering the world would really go over well with the public?

Even outside the current environment, hell, take it two years from now, Something tells me the game would be called out anyway. Grand Theft Auto was turned into a controversy several times over the past few games. Fox news threw a fit about Mass Effect 1's soft core touching scene. Anything that is seen as slightly touchy is instantly made into a controversy, Something tells me a psychopathic Teenager going on a killing spree would be a touchy subject no matter when it comes out. Sorry for thinking logically.

Note: Didn't say it wouldn't be a good game or a good change of pace from a lot of the carbon copy games out there.
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