Neoseeker : News : AMD starts "Gaming Evolved" campaign
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Dutch Oven Jul 24, 10
its great to see AMD really going for it on Open Source standards.
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Supernova1332 Jul 24, 10
"So overall, it looks a bit like "The Way It's Meant To Be Played" program, but a la AMD."

Oh great just what everyone needs. If you're not screwed by nvidia's twimtbp you'll be screwed by ati's GE. At least it focuses on open standards though.
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UK_John Jul 25, 10
This is about Graphic card sales down 34$ in the last 18 months or so, and PC CPU sales down nearly 40% in the last 2 years. In other words, it is desperation.

AMD have no control over the demise of PC gaming, it is the publishers of PC gaming causing it and AMD have no control over them. We have seen a whopping 60% drop in the number of AAA PC tiles in the last 3 years, and these are the games that push hardware. A bigger and bigger chunk of the PC games market is casual, indie and AA titles, and these generally run on low end PC's.

As long as publisher's concentrate almost exclusively on console, writing a game for the console market mentality and then converting it, as is, for PC, then the AAA PC market is going to continue to decline and so is AMD sales.

There is also the new situation of having over 5 years since the last console was released, and a likelihood of another 2 years before the chance of a new one. This means any games designed for these 5+ year old consoles will generally not make demands on PC's. When new consoles came out every 2-3 years, there was more high end pressure on PC games.

Today if you have 2GB ram, a 2.5ghz CPU or better and an 8800 or better, all components that are getting on for 3 years old, you have been able to play every PC games released from 2005 to today. Some, like Crysis, would not be able to be played on the highest resolution, etc, but the vast majority would.

The market has changed because of all the above. STALKER, for example, was reviewed in the 80% bracket for not having cutting edge graphics, and yet it sold twice as many copies as Crysis. This tells you for most PC gamers, gameplay has overtaken graphics as the reason to buy games. Also, with the advent of the Virtual PC and DOSBox, it is easier than ever to play the classic DOS/Win98 games of the past. This also changes viewpoints for PC gamers about the importance of graphics.

Every company involved in C gaming from Alien to AMD to ASUS are seeing sales way down, as PC gamers decide not to upgrade because their PC can still run the latest games and there are far too few PC games released to warrant spending money on an upgrade. Only a very small minority are going to spend $2,000+ on SLI and multiple monitors, Certainly not enough to sustain the industry.

Unless we see a new approach from the game developers/publishers then, the demise of PC gaming is a done deal. The only companies doing PC only games now are in Europe, and their games (Like STALKER, Space Rangers 2, Gothic, King Arthur the Roleplaying Wargame, Drakensang, Boiling Point, The Witcher, Spellforce and 2, Sacred 1 and 2 etc) do not demand high end systems.

So the die is cast I am afraid. And I say this as a 20+ year PC gamer that has never owned a console (unless you think a Commodore 64 is a console!)!!
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The Smith Jul 25, 10
I'm not quite sure. Some numbers seem to contradict this.

First, we said a few news ago that the graphics market sales are projected to be up: http://www.neoseeker.com/news/14426-graphics-card-sales-to-reach-63-billion-by-end-of-year/

Also, on the PCGA website, it says that the PC gaming software revenue also increased in 2009: http://www.pcgamingalliance.org/
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humorguy Jul 25, 10
I ma registered now so this is uk_john still:

@The Smith, I would look again very carefully at the words of those comments. Firstly they are manipulating numbers. If PC gaming components sales are down 28% between 2005 and 2009, than even if the 'projected' 2010 increase is destined to be 3%, then that will still be a 25% decline from 2005-2010. If I paid you $1,000 in salary last year, and this year I increased it to $2,000, I can honestly say I doubled your wages and you can honestly say your on slave wages that are disgusting low. Such is talking about increases based on very low or minus numbers.

The Alliance are always talking about how many PC's and laptops capable of playing games - but what games, if any, are they playing? If we go from approx 200 million AAA PC game sales in 2006 at $60 a pop and are moving to 150 million PC game sales that are mostly indie and casual at $10 a pop, then we are talking about we could be looking at a 40% decline in income for the PC industry, and as I say, casual and indie titles don't push hardware. The Alliance might as well be saying there will be a growth in car racing because of how many cars on the road - people would understand that statement better for being gobbledegook than when gaming is being talked about, because so many in gaming that make this reports have a vested interest. PC games company alliance are never going to tell the truth about a decline market any more than the hardware companies will.

Also dare I say it, all you commented on were the numbers, and not a thing on the logic. The logic of for the first time having a 5-7 year gap between consoles, the growth in casual and indie PC gaming (Stardock's growth, etc.) When you look at what Steam and Impulse actually sell, you see the bulk is 2-3 year old games at sub $25 prices. Again, these titles don;t need high end hardware. GOG.com has come into existence selling 3-15 year old games for $6 and $10 and are expanding all the time. They have been able to start this business because of DOSBox, which has had over 6,000,000 downloads so far. So the logic of DOSBox,casual and indie gaming, and the only PC only games needing low/medium spec PC's and console conversions from 5-7 year old machines to PC are going to not need high end systems either. None of the above is about numbers, but feel free to argue against my logic. he logic of Gamespot reviewing 38% less PC titles in the last 2 years, and at the same time average reviews going from 74% to 68% tell a story. There are a million other logic stories out there. Outside of the bias of the hardware and games companies, and yet it's amazing how often I get cited links such as you gave me that are not independent, but biased marketing from vested interests.
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The Smith Jul 25, 10
Yeah that may be true, but one must not forget that these old games you are talking about, well, in that time they did push hardware. The old games people are going to play in 5 years from now on will be today's games, which are currently pushing hardware!
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humorguy Jul 25, 10
The Smith: Are today's games pushing hardware? I disagree on that too. I don't think Boderlands, Dragon Age, Far Cry 2, Bioshock 2, Mass Effect 2needed any higher end hardware at all. In fact Bioware said how Mass Effect 2 specifically didn't need any higher machine than the first one. Bioshock 2 specs were exactly the same as one. Any game coming out on console and then as a conversion to PC, like most PC games today. By the very fact they have to work on a 5+ year old console isn't it obvious the PC conversion of that game will be able to run on a 3 year old PC. You would have to have had a VERY old PC to have needed to upgrade to play any of the above games. Then when you add the PC only games, like The Witcher, Two Worlds, Drakensang, The STALKER Series, the Gothic series and Sacred 1 and 2, to name just a few (and you could add all the Stardock games!) that do not need cutting edge hardware; then finally add the coup de grace that World of Warcraft or the Sims could not be the phenomenons they are if they needed high end PC's to run them and you see that gameplay is not seen in terms of graphics any more, and that games like Crysis stand out as an oddity in today's market and get outsold by games with much less in the way of graphics. Indeed a PC with the specs I mentioned above could play all the above games. This doesn't bode well for hardware or games companies that have moved too far away from the consumer.
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humorguy Jul 25, 10
Name any game released this year that could not be played on the PC specs I mentioned above. You'll find there are none. If your PC is less than 2 years old, and 2 years ago it was 80% toward cutting edge (not even 100%!),you are going to be able to play all PC games from 2 years ago to 5 years hence. Although personally, I don't think we will see any AAA PC titles beyond 2012 so if you are playing games in 5 years they are Stardock, GOG or currently owned PC games you'll be playing. Just like a the moment I am playing X-Com again, off the back of all the hype for the new X-Com shooter. That one title alone should show how out of touch games companies are.
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The Smith Jul 25, 10
Even then, it is not a reason to say that PC gaming is dying and that hardware needs no more development! For example, we have seen in the past months a real explosion of 3D displays on the market. These require much more powerful hardware to get acceptable framerates; the IGP giving you that 40FPS in The Sims won't exactly be cutting it in 3D. Newer and more powerful hardware combined with the technical support and guidance from manufacturers is exactly what allows the gaming experience to get better than ever.

Anyway, if PC gaming is declining, it is just in AMD's interest to try to strengthen it up with some sort of campaign.

Finally, here are some (sad) numbers that show just how much PC gaming is still strong: http://www.neoseeker.com/news/12689-the-most-pirated-video-games-of-2009/
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humorguy Jul 25, 10
Talk about the most dodgiest unknown numbers that could ever be created....!You certainly found them! A stack of numbers that mean absolutely nothing, other than be used as a poor excuse for all I have said about fewer PC titles being released more and more PC games being console versions ad infinitum! Every poor selling game is blamed on piracy! Dead Space and Mirror's Edge were admitted to be sales flops by EA 'because of piracy'. But of course they said nothing about the $60 price tag for two games that barely had 25 hours of gameplay between them! So $120 for a 25 hour game and they blame piracy for lack of sales. This is why gaming is a joke. For every other industry you have Watchdog or Consumer groups, if Hotpoint release a washing machine that breaks down in 3 months, or toyota release a car that has dodgy breaks, there is an independent consumer group of some type or another that gets the truth out. Not in PC gaming hard ware and PC games. All the numbers are released )or not mostly) by the publishers and hardware companies themselves. The PC gaming media does not investigation or exposures, but rather just regurgitates the press releases of the publishers manufactures and pretends it's editorial! Interview of industry leaders is never aggressive, hard questions are never asked and in general we have the most fawning, boot licking media that could possibly exist! It is also the most biased toward the large players in the market against the smaller players. hence a 'good' game from Blizzard will get a 90%+ score a really good European title will get review scores in the 80's. It has got to the point now that when a major publisher gets a review score of 89% it actually now gets seen as a bad game, and instinctively gamers now know an 89% for a game from a smaller publisher is a great game! The gaming media generally is not fit for purpose and it's lack of bravery with regard the bigger market players is the main reason for the decline in PC gaming and will soon be the reason for the decline in console games too. Too many good games are getting poor reviews and too many poor games are getting good reviews. From gaming forums there seems to be a trend of more and more gamers saying they will wait for user reviews as they don't trust media reviews. It is a fact that on metacritic very few games are 90% media and 90% user review average. More often than not, the 90%+ media review is accompanied by a 60-80% user review average. Where the media reviews average in the low 80's (Like with Space Rangers 2 from a small Russian company), if the game is from a smaller publisher it usually has an average in the 90's (SR2 has a user review score of 98!) The bigger the number of discrepancy's on sites like metacritic the more it bring, or should bring, the gaming media into disrepute.
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humorguy Jul 25, 10
I DID put the above into paragraphs!
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Supernova1332 Jul 25, 10
Love the apocalyptic scenario people. They have a bit of truth but are just as blind as anyone else, though they wont admit it. I do agree with some of what you say but there are definitely increasing demands in hardware to play on high settings. Because someone can pass with a 2.5ghz and 2gb of ram, on XP or possibly w7, and an 8800 or higher but before then you could have gotten by with a P4 and an x800 for a few years and before then you could have gotten away with a p3 and a geforce 256, voodoo 5, or rage fury maxx for a few years.


The hardware hasn't needed to get significantly better up until the release of dx 11 as dx9 was still the standard even after the last major update had been five years before, dx9.0 came out in 2002 and 9.0c was released in 2004. DX10 and 10.1 are pretty much a joke. Not many games have been released that can push hardware over the past few years I completely agree but before then they were still few and far between. Then again there aren't many companies that aim to make their games the standard as it could turn out bad for their sales.

Before it was "OMG CAN MY COMP RUN QUAKE? DOOM3? or OBLIVION?, DN3D?, CSS/HL2?(admittedly not very high requirements but it was still pretty taxing when it came out) TRIBES?, CRYSIS?. It comes down to what the consumers will settle for, which is pretty low. You could play new games but you're not going to be playing them like me and im not going to be playing them like someone with a i7 and a 5870 or multiple 5870's. Scaling, it's been around for a while.
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humorguy Jul 26, 10
Suoernova good post, but the only way I see for maybe having to upgrade is bad optimization from the console to the PC code, like in Oblivion, which still struggles at points even though I have surpassed the recommended by a long way!

I think people will look back and see that World of Warcraft and Sims pointed the way to millions upon millions of gamers realising it was not all about graphics. it's the reason each of the three STALKER games have all outsold on PC what Crysis did. There are so many clues out there, I don;t know why there are huge arguments. Hope over substance I suppose....!

And I will repeat, I am a 20 year plus PC gamer and I don't WANT this to happen, I just THINK it will. I am not letting my heart rule my head as I just see too many examples almost on a daily basis, whether it's the growth in DRM, the Blizzard 'real names' debacle, more and more reviews where the text says 9.0 and gets an 8.0 or where the text sounds like an 8.0 and the score is a 9.0.

But hey, maybe there's something out there no PC gamer knows about and I will turn out wrong about the continuing decline. If I don't want PC gaming to continue to decline but think it's going to continue to decline, I can certainly HOPE it won't continue to decline - just don;t ask me to put a percentage on it!
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The Smith Jul 26, 10
quote humorguy
Suoernova good post, but the only way I see for maybe having to upgrade is bad optimization from the console to the PC code, like in Oblivion, which still struggles at points even though I have surpassed the recommended by a long way!
That is exactly where business support from hardware manufacturers is needed.
Last edited by The Smith :: Jul 28, 10
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