Gamers discuss Shadow Complex boycott due to homophobic writer
Orson Scott Card outed as extreme homophobe, gamers respond
Now it's no secret that Ender's Game writer Orson Scott Card is a homophobe with questionable views on gay rights (my opinions), but it's not really common knowledge either.
GayGamer.net certainly isn't the only one speaking out about his involvement in Shadow Complex either. There's definitely a lot to think about here, because the game is great, and most of the community recognizes that. However, it is also based on a world created by Card for his Empire series, and the writer is a devout Mormon with some pretty stringent views -- to say the least.
Gamers have since taken notice, and there's buzzing in the air. Some gamers are encouraging others to boycott Shadow Complex, as Card invariably makes money off the game, money which he then uses to fund his anti-gay marriage campaign in Utah. Remember Prop 8 in California? He was a major financial backer behind that disgusting piece of legislature. Those advocating the Shadow Complex boycott reason that he will just use his profits from the game to fund more anti-gay rights laws.
So the reasoning behind this is to give as little money to Scott as possible, though many gamers reply that it's silly to boycott such a great game because the author of the novels that inspired the game is a homophobe. Card himself admitted that he did not contribute heavily to the game other than the Empire universe.
Now I believe GayGamer.net writer "Dawdle" had the right idea:
I still don't have an answer for myself. I think if you're obviously too disgusted to enjoy the game, avoid it, and speak out. However, if you want to play the game, play it. Enjoy it, but offset the hate: if you buy Shadow Complex, donate $5, $10, $15 if you can spare it to a gay charity. Let them know why you're giving the money. Card won't get nearly that much per game. In message boards or user reviews, in blogs or tweets, if it comes up, let people know exactly what Card has said on the matter, and where, and damn him with his own language.
Money is important, but far more important to him, and to history, is his legacy. You can tell from his reactions how much being called a homophobe rankles him. Increasingly and through his own work, the line on Orson Scott Card has moved away from "respected science fiction author" to "kind of insane about this whole gay thing." As his views become more and more fringe, and we continue to gain the rights he's fighting against, he'll retreat further into a conservative ghetto.
If you don't agree with Card but really want this game, go ahead and purchase it. Enjoy yourself, but donate a few bucks to a gay rights group or something of the like, and let them know exactly why you're doing so. Hell, Card's one hell of a writer, so you don't really have to boycott his books either, if you truly enjoy reading them. However, speak out against his views, spread the word! We know Mr. Card resents being labeled a "homophobe."
Shadow Complex is a great game and deserves the hype.
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In short, I think the idea is plain stupid, bordering on ridiculous.
Now if his views are represented in the game or in his books I would see a reason to try to ban or boycott him
but if none of his believes are express in the game then it shouldn’t be held responsible for what the person believes
Take into consideration that he is a staunch Mormon, and his religous beliefs are likely influencing his opinions, of which he is not that vocal. I don't think he needs his house burnt down in anger. I'm pretty sure he is not out killing gays like an Iranian regime, so people should reallly focus their attention and outrage elsewhere on the more heinous human rights violations.
The amusing part is the closure you bust out, you're painting the impression that he's a victim to his own religious choice, that he can't help it because the church is so powerful. Right...
No one said anything about burning his house down and no one said he was killing anyone, the fact that you're trying to derail a topic by inferring these things is a good joke. Maybe you can focus back to the points made instead? Maybe you can focus your attention to him using his financial capital to influence campaigns against gays because that fits his own personal beliefs?
He's a big boy, he doesn't need people making excuses for him. If he funds anti-gay propositions to essentially establish them as second class citizens then he needs to own the fallout from that as well.
I don't know much about this game, so I dunno if I'd actually like it or not...
BTW: Chances are, on any decently large development team, there would be one or more individuals that has some sort of belief that you'd strongly disagree with /guess.
It's a kick to see it brushed off as a whole, if it was an entertainer using funds from their shows / movies to ban violent video games because it was against their personal beliefs against violence people would be up in arms.
Beliefs are one thing, using your wealth to impose your beliefs on an entire body (state) of people is another story entirely.
I don't think it's wrong for anyone to have strong beliefs against homosexuals. It's their right. It's a freedom that is (supposed) to be guaranteed by the Constitution. I feel the same way for Homosexual's beliefs. It's their right. And I know that they are in a struggle right now to be recognized, but I'm confident they will make it stick eventually.
Unfortunately "Freedom" means that we have to live with other people NOT always agreeing with our same beliefs, and not punishing them (illegally) for those beliefs. As far as anyone knows, OSC is not breaking any laws with his actions.
"trying to alienate rights of others"
If Gates comes out and supports the expansion of rights of others is he actually removing the rights of another group? No. There is the actual problem and that's what keeps it from being a catch-22 as you tried to paint it.
If Gates was trying to ban hetero marriage and endorse gay marriage then he'd be no different and he'd be just as wrong. Selective quoting isn't a positive attribute.
You talk about freedoms by the constitution and that's what they're fighting for, equal representation even as a minority across the board for the country. The country has always had that struggle, the womens movement, african americans fighting for it, hispanics and so on.
To simplify it to the easiest level, would you say it was his freedom if he wanted to ban women from higher education? if he said we needed to repeal the ability for minorities to vote? I mean those would just be his beliefs he's fighting for afterall even if they imposed on the rights of others, surely he would be seen as just a man standing up for his beliefs even if those meant that you shouldn't have any. It may be a bit of a push but it outlines the point of the topic.
Examine the depth at which these things go instead of taking them at simple face value. If it's ok to rally to stonewall rights then what would be taking it too far? Would we just make exceptions over and over until we realized we let them go too far? If you pat and ignore an issue, it builds, it doesn't go away.
Keep the box big. Don't go narrowing the field.
What I'm saying is that you can't deny him the right to believe in what he's doing. He obviously feels strongly enough to invest his $$$, soul, and thinking into it. Just as I'm sure the gay community feels the same way against him. In a sense it's similar to the illegal immigrant issues that Californians and Arizonans face as well. We spend a shit ton of money as tax payers denying them rights to be here....when we actually took it from them. LOL different story though.
No, I don't feel the need to go after Jack Thompson. But I surely wouldn't punish a whole staff of people who worked on a project based on an idea of his. How many people at Chair Entertainment share his beliefs......let alone met the man?
This to me makes the most sense:Don't keep the hate going. I'm not trying to contain anything in a box, but I am trying to break the circle of hateful thinking.
Deep philosophy is deep.
Once one side establishes their rights Card will have to find something else to move onto unless he decides to take it to a federal level by repealing it. Comparing this to immigration is a bit of a "LOL" moment if you ask me, you're basically putting homosexuals on the same level as illegal immigrants to the country that assumed rights from the state. I hope you're not doing that. You'd have to go back to the early civil liberties battles of the 20th century if you wanted something remotely accurate to compare it to.
The fight only goes on until equality is established. Then people like Card just have to deal with the fact that their investment fell flat.
which civil liberties are you referring to? Women's right to vote? The ending of black segregation? Women are just now finally realizing their potential in the work place and socially....nearly 90 years after the laws were past to give them the right to be equal. And blacks....well they're still in their fight. They've only ended segregation completely what....40-50 years ago. A mere speck on the ass of time. So please don't pretend like the gay struggle has no relevance to the past. It's merely the past repeating itself....only in a more timely manner.
It gets better with each generation. Each generation becomes more and more tolerable. As they say "this too shall pass". And it's true! The gays will have their rights restored in the near future...I have faith it will be in the next 5-10 years.
Either way, if you're quick to blow off the illegal immigration issue as nonchalantly as you did.....then you're on par with OSC when it comes to equality. That's the point....you can't blow off one group for the other while you're screaming "EQUALITY"! It's either all or nothing.
Kik what are you smoking? Did I ever say they had no relevance to the past? WHERE? Oh wait, I never said that. I said you were crazy comparing homosexuals to illegal immigrants in the regard that they're not legal citizens battling the state for rights. Maybe you can enlighten me on that one. I pointed out if you wanted an accurate example to point to then actually cite legal citizens of this country paying equal taxes to state and federal as ordinary people trying to fight for equal representation in their respective states. I'm insulted entirely you're trying to omit or twist so much at this point for whatever reason.
I'm hoping they have rights given to them, restored is a false statement you can't restore what they never had.
Kik, the amount of conclusions you jumped to or points you skipped over is insane. I never blew them off, I blew off your wild claim because the comparison was so off base from the state of the people, maybe you should re-read all of my statements before you start claiming I'm with hate groups and other crazy things. If you come up with more defamation I'm not even going to give it my time. Seriously READ.
As it stands now, I just don't feel it's cool to condemn a gaming company with ~80-100 people because they produced a game with a man's name attached to it that you don't agree with. Those people worked their asses off to create a kick ass game, and by all accounts they pulled it off wonderfully.
While I agree on your point Kik, I don't agree with your view on illegal immigration. Yes, the land was taken from Mexicans at one point in time. However, currently, nothing has been taken from illegal immigrants. They don't retain any right to take back what was once theirs, because it never was theirs. It belonged to their ancestors, distant relatives.
That's kinda off topic though.
Epic games worked hard on it, but they're not going to lose their shirt if they don't ship a blockbuster, the publisher is a lot different in that respect. People are going to be consumers and do what they feel is best for them in the end. If they want the game they'll get it, if they want to get the game and feel guilt free they'll get it and try to do what they can. I'm pretty sure they knew the can of worms they were getting into before they even picked it up, legal and other branches were probably versed enough on Card.
You're obviously passionate on the subject. Hopefully you're channeling that passion into those groups you mentioned and actually making a difference. I'm sure they would gladly accept more support.
That's another mess in itself really.
I do most of my work at home with my parenting. I am definitely about teaching my children to be tolerant of other's beliefs....and hope to instill those ideas in them. My wife and I plan to speak openly about homosexuality, and would fully support any of our children if they felt that they were in fact gay.
I definitely agree the prop 8 shit was totally one sided. But to be honest, I haven't seen a proposition yet where there was a clearly stated reason for it's existence. Both sides try to slander each other so much that the idea of the laws are buried under the rubble. I *bleep*in' hate politics! LOL
I'm more offended by games like GTA's "Ballad of Gay Tony" for forcing gay themes in everyone's face than anything. So I'll probably buy Shadow Complex, but I definitely won't buy anything GTA anymore. But that's just how I roll. I voice my opinion with my pocketbook.
Personally, I find homosexuality offensive. But I'm not going to make someone else feel shamed for what they do in the privacy of their own bedroom. I just don't want to know about it whether your straight, gay, or undecided. Unfortunately there's a militant arm of the gay population who feels its necessary to shove their sexual habits in everyone's face and expects us to all be happy they did. If they'd keep their sexuality to themselves the way I keep mine to myself, the world would be a much more accepting place.