An odd convorsation i had if you make it to the end, i praise you :) Stranger: partying Stranger: clubbing Stranger: drinking You: your point? Stranger: but jesus is better Stranger: POINT Stranger: yup You: but jesus is a lie. point. Stranger: nope Stranger: i understand why u think that tho Stranger: because i used to Stranger: big time You: you can't say my oppinion is wrong, so another point for me You: :/ Stranger: never said it was wrong, just said that i dont think its right Stranger: or that i know its wrong You: i spoke my oppinion and you said no. thats saying im wrong Stranger: i well to be honest You: being honest doesnt mean being right Stranger: if someone says something to u Stranger: are u always going to just accept it Stranger: no Stranger: u say ur opinion on that You: no, but i wont say someones oppinion is wrong Stranger: ok fine You: i voice my own oppinion, i dont hear people and what they say and just say no or wrong Stranger: i should have not said nope Stranger: i should have said Stranger: i respect your opinion there my friend You: yes, you should have said that. Stranger: but my opinion is otherwise You: well thats fine Stranger: ok we good? You: sure Stranger: lol Stranger: ok Stranger: so Stranger: i belive Stranger: that You: I dont care what you believe Stranger: jesus is not a lie but in fact very real Stranger: same You: im not saying he didn't exist Stranger: yes u are You: no. i said he was a lie. i didn't say jesus didnt exist You: theres a difference Stranger: same thing basically Stranger: well no not really You: "basically" not advanced-ly Stranger: if u say jesus is a lie, your saying he is not in a sense 'real' Stranger: he is false You: basically they mean the same thing, but without basics, they are completley different Stranger: made up Stranger: thats what u mean You: thats not what i mean though. how can you tell me what i mean? You: you can think about what you think i mean, but you cant tell me what i mean You: i know what i mean Stranger: ok then You: another point for me You: thats 4 to 1. i win. Stranger: what do you mean when you say jesus, is a lie Stranger: u dont win Stranger: u lost at jesus is a lie brother You: but i always win Stranger: nio u dont Stranger: u failed You: and im not your brother. how can you say i fail when im beating you? You: you sir, have poor logic You: tsk tsk, shame on you Stranger: wow Stranger: ur very anti-social You: im very social Stranger: nope Stranger: oh Stranger: i mean You: if i was anti social, would i be talking to you? Stranger: i respect ur opinion Stranger: u can talk to people, but still be anti-scoial Stranger: ..brother Stranger: guess 'i win' You: i still cant be your brother, thats impossible You: so "i win" Stranger: were all brothers and sisters, since were all humans, so i win You: but im still not your brother Stranger: its actually a friendly term to associate with the person ur talking, unfortunately, ur anti-social behaviour does not understand it You: no, im a girl. its physically impossible to be your brother Stranger: great im happy for you, but ur being picky now arnt you? Stranger: ur obviously not physically my brother You: no, im not You: nor spiritually your brother, because jesus is a lie Stranger: but if u had good social understanding, u would understand the social meaning of that term Stranger: well Stranger: were back here again, so why is jesus a lie You: i do understand the term, i was taking it literally however Stranger: u said u think he exists Stranger: so why is he a lie You: i dont think he exists You: i know he exists. its historical. Stranger: well ur point u just argued with me said u think hes real Stranger: so it just does not make sense Stranger: right Stranger: now u say he does exist Stranger: ... You: you said i think, but i never said "i think" i said i know. Stranger: oooh, thats extra picky Stranger: really sister (i know u lovbe that hehe) Stranger: love* You: you call it picky, but you are using the wrong word to explain my word choices Stranger: you are picky on what you are saying Stranger: i think Stranger: i know You: its called "being literal" can i ask your age? Stranger: is that really going to get us anywhere even if u pointout exactly which one you said, they get us to the same place dont they Stranger: so its really pointless words Stranger: and retracing steps for no reason Stranger: im 18 Stranger: an you? You: no, they dont get us to the same place. if i think something, its completley different from knowing something You: my my, you cant trust the internet can you? Stranger: well, if u say " oh i think jesus is real" and then you say "i know jesus is real" Stranger: how does that change what you believe Stranger: i can understand what you believe from using either one of those You: if you think jesus is real, you have doubt. isnt that one of the main problems with religion these days? doubt? Stranger: and come to the same conclusion of what you believe cant i? You: would you rather know that i have doubt, or know that im a true believer. different conclusions. Stranger: you see all that which you and i said was pointless, because we were going over pointless things, that didnt get us anywhere, do u see what im saying. U were trying to be clever Stranger: but it was not needed Stranger: please say yes You: "because we were going over pointless things" i couldn;t agree more Stranger: thank god You: religion is pointless Stranger: right Stranger: religion is not good You: then why did you bring it up? You: were you, in fact, trying to be clever when all of this started? Stranger: because believeing in jesus is no 'religion' as such Stranger: no not at all You: oh but i believe you were. Stranger: ijust felt like in the moment saying jesus is better than those things Stranger: nothing more too it You: "drinking, clubing, partying, then jesus." paraphrased Stranger: no, i wasnt being clever, its not clever at all. Stranger: i literally, honest to god You: no, its not. but you were trying. Stranger: said that in the moment Stranger: bescause i felt like it Stranger: as we are on omegle You: can you be honest to a god thats not honest to you? Stranger: and it doesnt matter Stranger: god is honest to me Stranger: how do you know he isnt Stranger: ? You: why do you say that? Stranger: because seek and you will find Stranger: you seek answers Stranger: and hell be straight up with u Stranger: he will* hehe You: whos to say there is someone out there willing to answer you? You: or answer you with the truth? Stranger: um, a book called thebible Stranger: the bible Stranger: and its true Stranger: it works You: can the bible garuntee in a god who is honest, who gives the answers you seek? You: can the words of man tell of the non mortal existence? Stranger: if god exists, then do you think he is a loving god, or a hateful god? Stranger: the words of a man Stranger: ok.. Stranger: i see where this is going You: if god exists, then he cannot be one or the other. Stranger: right because he is not a personal god then? You: if he is loving, he is also lying. if he is hateful, were already dead. Stranger: ok your right on the hateful part Stranger: now Stranger: if he is loving, he is also lying Stranger: why do you say that? You: because its what i believe. Stranger: ok fine Stranger: but ask urself is it logical Stranger: if we have a lying god You: why must i look for the logical reasons? why cant i just simply believe? Stranger: then we wudnt have any way round to getting 'saved' Stranger: becasuse we were lied to Stranger: so then he is really hateful You: maybe because there is no way to be saved. Stranger: well then that is a hateful god Stranger: but we wouldnt be living then You: exactly. if he is lying, he really is hateful, because he lied to us about being loving. You: and then were all dead Stranger: but wouldnt a loving god make complete sense then? You: it should, but also, why should it? You: can't a god be capable of being beyond logical reason? You: or maybe, this god created logical reason so that we would doubt, and thus we cannot be saved. Stranger: the god created logical reason because its logical to believe that there is a god You: or maybe we are saving ourselves by doubting? You: or maybes its illogical to try and give reason to illogical things about god. Stranger: but there a no real illogical things about god You: so where is the point? on my scoreboard. 5-2. i win Stranger: its just the human mind now wants to doubt You: there are many things illogical about god Stranger: but if u just really look at it Stranger: u know there is a creator You: if you look closely at something, there is always something wrong. no matter how much you tell yourself its perfect, and nothing is bad about it. You: there is always something wrong You: and whats wrong with god? Hes not honest. can you be faithful to someone who wanted you to doubt his existence? Or perhaps, wanted us to be faithful, but made a mistake. why wouldnt god fix his mistakes? You: and if you say they arent mistakes, then why are there so many problems? Stranger: you just came up with that, how do you know there is something 'wrong' with everything. I think the fact that we wouldnt be alive and life wouldnt be possible if this earth was less the 1 degree more to the right, means it is perfect You: how can earth be perfect if it is its own death trap? unless that was its intention, in which case, i guess it is perfect, until man wants to make it imperfect. Stranger: no, it just shows how fine and perfect it needs to be to have life Stranger: inteligent design You: can i ask you a simple question, to drop all of this mass? Stranger: ok sure? You: why do you believe in god? nothing spectaculare about what he does, but why do you believe? Stranger: because i know what is going on in this world, i once believed there was no god, and humans could become god. I know what is true now, for many complex reasons. You: so you believe in god because what you once knew to be true, is now false? Stranger: because i found out the truth Stranger: about everything Stranger: because i looked for it Stranger: desired it Stranger: i went through some crap Stranger: but ultimately, i got to the truth You: ok Stranger: ok we cool? You: No...heh, very much no. Stranger: right ok Stranger: thanks You: there is so much that doesn't make sense with what you said Stranger: im sure there is to u You: it may make sense to you, but to me, its laughable, it really is. Stranger: im sure it is, i do not doubt that for one second Stranger: look Stranger: i believed basically the complete opposite to what the bible says Stranger: and i was extremely enthusiatic about it Stranger: that was a year ago You: so what changed then? Stranger: i am ewhere i am now Stranger: what changed was i was woken up to the reality of it Stranger: that its a lie Stranger: ever heard of the New Age? You: it seems to me like, you are dodging the question. you may not be, but to me it seems that way Stranger: im not dodging the question at all its just quite a complex series of events Stranger: but what i wrote sums it up basically You: ok then. there is a difference between waking up to a reality of the lie you lived, and going through complex events. You: im simply trying to establish that. Stranger: well, it was quite instant actually, but i had to research and go through things to fully realise the reality of it You: so...what changed in your perspective? What did the knowledge and beliefe in god allow you to do? Stranger: it allowed me to see the truth about everything I had come to know of wehat is happening in the world You: i see...now, heres what i have to say comes in. What you may see as the truth, i see it as "what makes it the truth, and everything else a lie?" I dont look at things to see an answer, but to see the question and the answer. Stranger: i understand You: thats good. many people i talk to don't understand what i mean by that. Stranger: well, its what i found out, and then after seeing how simple it fits in Stranger: to the turht Stranger: truth* Stranger: it fits in so well Stranger: its actually illogical to think otherwise You: you cannot simply say "because it is what i believe to be the truth, so why question it" can you? That's the response ive been waiting for you to say for a long time now. Stranger: i never in a million years said that Stranger: you made that up You: i know you didnt say that. ive been waiting for you to say it. Stranger: read abovve again please Stranger: above* Stranger: oh ok Stranger: i see Stranger: right sorry You: ive been asking my questions, and all youve been doing is to try and convince me. Why cant you simply believe? Does there need to be reasons and answers? no! Stranger: well, i would rather explain Stranger: but i perfectly know i dont have to tell you anything You: its ok to explain, but you never gave the direct answer. Stranger: because its a conversation maybe? Stranger: direct answer? Stranger: to what? Stranger: i pretty much did didnt i? You: you gave the explination to an answer you never directly specified. Stranger: well i actually did Stranger: i did point out that its complex You: if you think you did, i guess thats your own reasoning. Stranger: but then you would rather me say "its what i believe" Stranger: so you should be happy no? You: yes, that is what I would rather hear. Stranger: right then You: I am happy, i havent been unhappy this entire convorsation. Stranger: right ok You: I've been dissapointed numerous times, and worried, but never unhappy. Stranger: dissapointed and worried... Stranger: :) You: heh, and my worries pursist. Stranger: look, theres no need to be Stranger: u dont know me Stranger: i dont know you Stranger: i smile because i think its interesting what you said Stranger: it shows exactly your position here, what you believe, how you think You: here i am questioning your beliefes, your reasons, and you dare not reach your curiosity out at me? Im worried you don't care what i believe, or atleast, dont care enough to even ask about me. Stranger: your approach Stranger: open mindess Stranger: you as a person Stranger: right there Stranger: so Stranger: i smiled You: smiling is good. Did i ask why you smiled? You: or maybe you want to ask me why i didn't ask why you smiled? Stranger: see Stranger: thats pointless right there Stranger: just why? Stranger: youre trying to be clever Stranger: but its silly Stranger: and just not needed quite fankly You: because not everything has to have a point, and being silly is more fun. You: but is the "not needed" part of things, just make people wonder why they aren't needed? Thus giving them a need? a need to have a point... Stranger: ok but you understand what im saying? Stranger: its 2:57 here, give me a break Stranger: am Stranger: ok then You: :) I smile because im having a good time talking to you, incase you wondered. but wheres the point? I must bring up what i said last time, why do things always have to have a point? Stranger: what do you believe? Stranger: your actually having a good time talking to me? Stranger: well theres a surpise Stranger: i thought u were dissapointed, woried, and completely disliked this 'stranger' You: What do I believe? That's a good question. And ofcourse im having a good time talking to you. Its not on every occasion i have a good time talking about religion to people, so its nice :) You: i was dissapointed that you couldnt answer my questions the way i wanted to, i was worried that you didn't care about how curious i was and how non curious you were. can i truly dislike someone i dont truly know? especially not even knowing their name? i think not. Stranger: well, im glad you cleared that up from ur side You: I believe there is no god. there is not higher being out there, and I believe this because Its simply what i believe. There are many times and things that cause me to think if there should be doubt, but honestly, its the things that make sense to other people, and not me, that make me believe what i believe. Stranger: right ok You: if someone else can find reasoning in place of which I cannot, then they simply think different than I. Why think that because of this, they are right and i am wrong? or i have lived lies while they live in the truth? You: I believe...everyones religion is right. Whatever everyone believes in, then its real. The human mind is strange, but if you can truly believe somehting, with all of your heart, how can it be my place to deny existence or true beliefe that others hold? Stranger: if you know that 2+2 =4 Stranger: but an un educated child does not Stranger: do you think that you both have come to different conclusions because you simply think different Stranger: or because one of you has simply not found out the truth Stranger: of the question? You: both. Stranger: right ok Stranger: why both? You: but then again, religion and math are different. What we learn from math is that numbers have values, where as religion is about what you believe. sure beliefes can have their values, but why compare something so complex to a math question. The only variable in your question is the education difference. In religion, it is not ones place to teach something like religion to those who dont want to learn it, because one doesn't need religion in common society as much as they would need math in common society. You: why both? why not? Stranger: well, considering its math related Stranger: it cant be both Stranger: i understand what your saying You: people with different education levels can come to as many different conclusions as they wish, but to compare a right answer to "truth" is strange. Because one hasnt learned, they cannot know, but does that mean they cannot reach their own conclusion? Stranger: well the truth is 2+2=4 Stranger: and we know that Stranger: so if someone doesnt Stranger: they dont know the truth, but we do. And we know, its the truth, but they dont You: if someone doesnt know that that is the truth, then they think differently. People can think different, and people can also be unable to find "truth" Stranger: yes but do you see what im tyring to say Stranger: maybe there is ctually a truth Stranger: actually a truth* You: if they dont know what truth is, then anything can be true, and anything can be false, and this is what makes people think differently. Stranger: but some people do not know it Stranger: like 2+2=4 Stranger: tyhat is truth Stranger: but some poeple do not know it You: If there is a truth, why must it be math? why must it be more?why can't things just be? Things are, and each mind can see truth differently. What one believes to be truth, may be different than what someone else to believe is "truth". You: you think truth is god, right? God is truth and the things god does are in the name of truth, to preserve goodness and truth, correct? Stranger: yes, but even though one may see 2+2=5 as truth and one does not, does it mean the former person is right? Stranger: no, even though they have different truths You: and this is where comparing math to religion is wierd. You: 2+2=4 is a truth, but to someone who doesn't know, might think 2 and two make something different. the variable in this is that one is a definate truth defined in our society. with religion, the two truths must be different, and then one is going to be wrong and the other right, so hows place is it to decide whats right and whats wrong? You: does that make sense? Stranger: actually, "so hows place" doesn't... Stranger: :) You: perhaps, i should reword my question. You: putting aside any spelling or grammer mistakes i make in my typing haste, does it make sense? Stranger: well, yes it does, but it does not mean that there isnt an actual right and wrong Stranger: people may think differently on what is right and wrong Stranger: but there is right and wrong Stranger: but i know how your going to andswer that Stranger: answer* You: well, ofcourse there is right and wrong. And its what you believe to be right, and what you believe to be wrong, that matters to you. Stranger: yes i thought so You: Your wrong and my wrong could be the same, but may be different, or be mostly the same with tiny, but full of meaning, differences. much like the different religions themselves. Stranger: yes but people 'know' whats right and wrong, in this world Stranger: its in us Stranger: our soul You: people can "know" their own differences, on what theyve experienced in life. Stranger: you blieve that there is no god? Stranger: believe* You: correct Stranger: and this is an accident You: an accident? Stranger: an accident You: explain Stranger: life was created Stranger: because of circumstances that were not, created by inteligent design Stranger: so in effect, our existence, and life on earth, and a universe able to sustain life, was indeed an accident Stranger: just happned Stranger: happened* You: oh, i think i understand what youre getting at. heh...i think i said this before, "there are some things that i cannot explain, that others might be able to, using their own beliefes" and its perfectly fine with me, because even though someones beliefes might explain something that mine don't, it wont change what i believe. Stranger: ok thats fine Stranger: but isnt it logical then to believe there is a god Stranger: a creator? Stranger: since there is reason to belive that, but no solid reason to think otherwise? You: perhaps it may be logical to one mind, and to another it might be illogical. To me, its both logical and illogical. Stranger: until we can truly disprove it? You: why look for reaons to prove or disprove another? Why must we fight with words until one of us(and by us i just mean people in general) must in the end lose because the other one is right? You: ill say again, i have my own believes, and if someone can truly believe in something with their heart, mind, soul, and body, then they are right. To themselves they are right, and thats what religion is supposed to be. atleast, thats what i think religion is supposed to be. Stranger: its not necessarily a must, but if there is a right, does that npot mean the wrong needs to be disproved if your soul depends on it? Stranger: (incorporating my own beliefs yes....) You: should i have faith in something that gives people reasons to believe that those who cannot find truth cannot be saved? Why can there not be a collective, somehting that allows people to be happy with their lives and not worry about making the right or wrong choice? Stranger: because our souls and the situation we are in is more complex than not worrying about making the right or wrong choice Stranger: as complex as the existence of life itself You: so you believe in a system that has you make the right choices, or attempt to get you on the right path, otherwise you'll be damned? You: or maybe theres more to it than that. Stranger: as a matter pf fact Stranger: yes Stranger: yes i do Stranger: of* You: ok then Stranger: but its not a system You: do you think that i am trying to cast down your beliefes? or attempting to make you doubt what you believe? Stranger: no not at all, not for one second You: ok good, because to me, it seems like everything that i say, you have a counter for it. Stranger: well its not countering, but i guess i could be, but your asking questions, and we are pretty much bouth countering each other arnt we? Stranger: both* You: to me, it seems like you subconciously activate a defense that causes you to try and defend your belifes. do you feel like I am attacking your religion, ro that you should defend yourself for what you believe? Stranger: i don't feel the need to defend my belief (it is not a religion), and i don't think ur attacking what i believe in at all You: ok then. Stranger: lol ok good You: i have to clear that up sometimes. usually in these kinds of ddebates or arguments about religion, people think im actually attacking their religion because im pointing out my reasons as to not believing Stranger: no you see thats the difference between being in a religion Stranger: and having faith You: and ofcourse there are those types of people who honestly think that what they think is right and all else is wrong... Stranger: and thats what i want to point out You: hmm, you simply have faith, you aren't in a specific religion? Stranger: well, i dont think that all else is wrong, but it is true that i have fiaht towards Jesus and what he says, so there must be an element of me believing i am right and a lot of else is wrong Stranger: faith* Stranger: i dont go to church Stranger: i dont belong to a community liek myself Stranger: i have athiest friends, in fact pretty much all of them are Stranger: like* You: so, because you have faith, and because you have your own beliefes, what other people believe is wrong to you? I have lots of religious friends, and i even go to a youth group, and im still an atheist. Stranger: i dont have a ppastor, and listen to him and what he tells me to do and think Stranger: pastor* Stranger: i have me and my bible :) Stranger: and the turth is, thats all anyone really needs Stranger: and interaction with other christians Stranger: i believe! Stranger: lol You: if thats what you believe, then I wont cast it down, nor give you reason to doubt You: but, when peoples belifes get in the way of how they judge others and whgat they think, it saddens me. You: what* Stranger: Jesus said "I am the truth, the way, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me". Stranger: He also said, "the path to life is narrow, and many will not find it" Stranger: so, my faith means i do believe others are on the wrong path Stranger: because i believe Stranger: jesus You: ok :) You: you've finally gotten to a good answer on your own, im proud of you. Stranger: lol fantastic! Stranger: awesome :) You: is my praise really worth that much to you? Stranger: lol no not at all Stranger: i dont need your praise :) You: i could be 8, 12, 30, 80, i could be gay, transsexual, male, female, and you seem so excited :) Stranger: lol there was a reasonable amount of sarcasm in what i said! You: =) Stranger: you did say your female though Stranger: so... You: hm? I did? Stranger: actually i should have said Stranger: don't praise me, praise Jesus! Stranger: that would have been better lol You: im not a very trustworthy person you know Stranger: that's ok Stranger: trust is a great part of being christian :) Stranger: you can trust Stranger: a true christian Stranger: :) You: but sometimes trust illogical, in the rarest occasions such as this one? so why? You: because thats how you are? Stranger: well, the bible teaches to love Stranger: one another Stranger: never lie Stranger: dont hate Stranger: but pray for your enemy Stranger: is there an ounce of 'bad' in that... You: i know. I study the bible every wednesday. Stranger: its come from a nice source Stranger: a loving source Stranger: really? You: yes Stranger: thats very odd... Stranger: not that ur not christian Stranger: but You: not alot, but usually a small bit that my youth group discusses over, what the part could mean, what the message is trying to be conveyed as Stranger: just by how you come across Stranger: so why do you do so? in your youth group? You: well, ive been an active atheist all my life, but i recently joined the youth group, about a few months ago. From what I've learned, my beliefes and my faith remain unchanged, but I do respect other peoples beliefes and wish to know more about them before taking the easy way out and casting them away Stranger: is the bible necessary? Stranger: is its message any good? You: im not sure how to answer about the bibles necessity, it can vary from person to person, those who can benefit from its teachings, and those who are baffled. the messages are nice, I like the messages. Stranger: ok i see, so you recognise that the messages are good, and loving You: yes. Stranger: but i guess its hard to believe it comes from god, because you do not believe there could possibly be a loving go? Stranger: god* You: i never said i didnt believe in a loving god. Stranger: everyone can benefit from the bibles teachings. Wouldn't the world be a better place if they believed in its message Stranger: no more hate Stranger: just love You: yes, i couldn't agree more. You: however, i believe that there are points in its teachings that could be gone without, and points that do not make sense. I believe in the many messages, and those who receive them can do as the please with them. A message is meant to be listened to, not force fed. Stranger: I believe the bible is a piritual book Stranger: spiritual* You: the bible is more of a...life guideline, to me. i dont disagree that it is spiritual, i believe it is spiritual, but looking at it like guidelines instead of rules makes the message more clear for me. Stranger: unless there is connection to god, it is hard to understand Stranger: well you see Stranger: rules will be broken Stranger: and god knows that Stranger: because its who we are Stranger: we are sinners Stranger: were all sinful Stranger: i am Stranger: you are You: instead of the "you shouldn't do this" aspect of it, I look at it like "this is frowned upon. You shouldn't do this, but there are ways to repair mistakes" Stranger: but thats the point of christianity Stranger: no one is perfect Stranger: because once we sinned in the beginning, we will always sin. Its like a mark or burn, once its there, its always going to be there Stranger: so thats why Jesus was sent Stranger: its a perfect plan Stranger: and makes sense You: ok. :) Stranger: lol okay dokey You: perhaps by meeting me today, youve made a stronger connection with your god. or perhaps late on in life you can look back at this moment and think "god sent this person to me to make my connection stronger" So with this, I must leave, but I'll tell you a few truths. Im a 17 year old boy living in the new york suburbs named Kevin. Perhaps we'll meet one day in person, or perhaps we have already met? The strange may be unexplained, but thats the fun in life for me.