Neoseeker.com Forum Thread: End of Z Goku. - page 1

reprinted from http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/
original thread: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t1722786-end-of-goku/


Author:   XxSkelterXx
Date:   Mar 21, 12 at 5:58pm (PST)
Subject:   End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
Ok, I will say the same thing i said on Pojo regarding Goku and Oob's power at the end of Z, and hopefully this will be the last time I will have to address this.

es, Oob being anywhere near Ssj3 Goku is ******* halarious.

Let's break it down for you boys:

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P6.5
Goku: “…But someone besides us and Boo might win.”
Satan: “Hahhahhah, now really! There’s no way that could happen, right

Goku thinks that Oob is as strong as Kid Boo, and he is not sure he can win. This here implies that Goku is not that much stronger than he was when he fought Boo 10 years ago. If he was a lot stronger, and he was going up against a guy as strong as Kid Boo, he wouldn't have doubts about him winning.


Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P8.1
Trunks: “…Hey, is there really some absolutely incredible guy here somewhere?”
Goten: “…Well, there’s some weirdos at least…”

Nobody can sense a guy that's supposed to be as strong as a freaking Super Saiyan 3 here. Oob can't control his energy, he can't fly or shoot ki blast, so why would he be able to supress his power?


Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P10.2
Context: Goku asks Boo to rig the match-ups so he can fight Oob
Goku: “…Sorry, but I wanna fight with him no matter what, in the 1st round when both of us still have 100% of our stamina…”

He still thinks that he needs to be at 100% to fight Oob.


Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P11.6-8
Goku: “He’s the one…While I’ve been training on my own, I’ve been waiting all this time for that kid to enter the tournament…[ ]…10 years ago, when that outrageously bad Majin Boo died, I made a wish…That this time, he be reborn as a good guy, so we could fight one-on-one…Apparently old man Enma Daio heard me, and pulled some strings on my behalf…”

This right here tells us again that Goku still thinks he is fighting against a guy as strong as Kid Boo.

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P12.3
Oob: “Maybe mom was right after all…She told me that though I may be far and away the strongest in my village, the world is way stronger than that, and it’s sure to be full of people stronger than me…”

His mom doesn't think he is anything special, if he was one-shotting guy around his village, she would have been a little more confident?

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P6.4-5
Context: as Goku and Oob are about to fight
Piccolo: “This will be the most notable fight this time around…”
Dende: “Huh?”
Goku (to Oob): “Don’t be so tense. You won’t be able to put forth your true ability.”

He wants him to fight him at full power, using his full ability, at this point, Goku doesn't think much of Oob's Ki. Remember, Boo can't control his ki, so he can't hide his ki, what you see is what you get.

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P12.2-5
Context: Oob is surprised by Goku’s Bukujutsu
Goku: “Oh, I see. You still don’t even know how to fly, huh? …I guess there ain’t no helping it. You haven’t had no teacher, and you probably never even considered things like that. Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected. But you don’t know how to use your power. This is the first time you’ve fought like this, right? I've got it! From now on I'll live with you at your house and teach you

Once Oob gets mad, and powers up a bit by pure luck and accident he shows some real power, sadly, this is a power that base Goku can handle.
So why would Goku think that a guy he can sneeze at while being a Ssj could win the Budokai?? Because he didn't know Oob had no training. He expected Kid Boo, and that's who he got... So yes, Oob is who Goku thought he was, he just can't fight with his full power, so Goku decides to teach him.

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P13.6
Context: talking to Gohan about training Oob
Goku: “I don’t know how many years it will take, but I’ll come back home every now and then. Give my best to everyone!
Oob is so weak, that it might take years to bring him anywhere close Kid Boo's power, Remember, Goku thought he was fighting a guy as strong as Boo, and he still didn't think he had a sure chance at victory...Now, can this base Goku=Kid Boo **** be put to rest??
__________________



Author:   SSj3 Gotenks
Date:   Mar 21, 12 at 6:03pm (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
Like i said on pojo, i am going to love to see COH and Co. try and refute your giant wall of evidence.



Author:   XxSkelterXx
Date:   Mar 21, 12 at 6:07pm (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
Lol, no shit huh? So far, the thread has been ignored on pojo even though there is some action going on other threads. Let's see how it does here at Neo.



Author:   SSj3 Gotenks
Date:   Mar 21, 12 at 6:14pm (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
That super vegito guy is making my day at pojo. He thinks i am blade LOL. As for the activity not picking up in that thread. People are trying to find ways to discredit it imo. Takes some times. You layed it out perfectly imo.



Author:   XxSkelterXx
Date:   Mar 21, 12 at 6:40pm (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
I rarely take my time to make arguments like that. 9 times out of 10, when I post, I do it from my phone. I don't take the time to look up the quotes and lay it out like that. I had to this time. This is one of them arguments that I think they are so dumb, that something has to be said about it...Its such a dumb argument.



Author:   SSj3 Gotenks
Date:   Mar 21, 12 at 6:45pm (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
Well the way people here take every single implications to heart, it isn't weird to see something like this when you have people with chains like this: SSJ gohan(Ship)>=Dabura>Yakon>Base saiyans>pui-pui>kaioshin>SSJ2 Gohan> piccolo.



Author:   XxSkelterXx
Date:   Mar 21, 12 at 6:54pm (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
I know, that type of shit is ridiculous, and makes me lol everytime I see people taking it serious just because is implied, or it was never contradicted..Lol..



Author:   Kaboom
Date:   Mar 21, 12 at 7:02pm (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
I think the best argument, or at least the best logical loop, against the 'Base Goku = Oob = Pure Boo' preconception I've seen is: "If Goku's already that strong in base, why would he be so excited about someone whom he can OHKO with just Super Saiyan 1?" No matter how measly one might think the Super Saiyan multiplier became over the years for the sake of Yakon or GT, there's no denying that if 'base Goku = Oob,' then 'SSj Goku >>> Oob,' no matter what else.

I'm surprised I've never seen that, much less thought of it myself, until so recently. But to me the whole idea's always seemed like a no-brainer. In terms of power levels, the notion that Goku got roughly 400x stronger in just a few years would, or should, be hard for anyone to swallow, much less be the preferred explanation. The simpler idea that Goku got enough of a "taste" of Oob's power, when it was brought out by anger, to confirm who he was has always struck me as making more sense.

Also, another thing to keep in mind is how the two different versions of each fight are. In the original manga, the fight was VERY short, and Goku was actually, well... losing. The anime not only dragged it out, but made it much more even in the process, making Goku look better, naturally. In the manga, it's quite likely the power Oob displayed, whatever portion of Pure Boo's it may be, was much greater than base Goku's.



Author:   XxSkelterXx
Date:   Mar 21, 12 at 7:14pm (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
I think people that follow such absurd logic is mostly due to Dragonball GT. If people would forget GT was ever made, they would look at the whole thing with an open mind, and realize that to believe such notion is ridiculous.



Author:   Kaboom
Date:   Mar 21, 12 at 8:18pm (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
quote XxSkelterXx
I think people that follow such absurd logic is mostly due to Dragonball GT. If people would forget GT was ever made, they would look at the whole thing with an open mind, and realize that to believe such notion is ridiculous.
True, that might have a lot to do with it. I've never bothered approaching GT from a serious power levels perspective because GT was written by squirrels. But if someone felt the need to do so, then some pretty wacky stuff would probably be "required" for it to even loosely fit with Z.



Author:   SSj3 Gotenks
Date:   Mar 21, 12 at 9:19pm (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
GT has base goku>Everyone in Z, but he struggles against some worms. Yeah GT has amazing logic.



Author:   raisura
Date:   Mar 21, 12 at 10:28pm (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
I agree with the above poster



Author:   Mishimi
Date:   Mar 22, 12 at 12:24am (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
what the hell is this shit?



Author:   super michael
Date:   Mar 22, 12 at 4:55am (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
quote XxSkelterXx
Goku thinks that Oob is as strong as Kid Boo, and he is not sure he can win. This here implies that Goku is not that much stronger than he was when he fought Boo 10 years ago. If he was a lot stronger, and he was going up against a guy as strong as Kid Boo, he wouldn't have doubts about him winning.
Goku had no idea how buu reincarnation would be like, he might have thought that this reincarnation would be stronger than kid buu seeing that piccolo jr is stronger than king piccolo.

quote XxSkelterXx
Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P8.1
Trunks: “…Hey, is there really some absolutely incredible guy here somewhere?”
Goten: “…Well, there’s some weirdos at least…”

Nobody can sense a guy that's supposed to be as strong as a freaking Super Saiyan 3 here. Oob can't control his energy, he can't fly or shoot ki blast, so why would he be able to supress his power?
The same reason why no one was able to sense gohan huge power level against raditz, gohan didn't know how to suppress and neither power up. Since uub wasn't taught how to control ki, then he have the same problem as gohan and his power level would be like around 1 or 5 like gohan.

Thats all I am going to say since those are my main points.



Author:   SSj3 Gotenks
Date:   Mar 22, 12 at 7:17am (PST)
Subject:   re: End of Z Goku.
-------------------------------------------
quote super michael
The same reason why no one was able to sense gohan huge power level against raditz, gohan didn't know how to suppress and neither power up. Since uub wasn't taught how to control ki, then he have the same problem as gohan and his power level would be like around 1 or 5 like gohan.

Thats all I am going to say since those are my main points.
Ki control doesn't have anything to do with being able to put out your power. Look at nappa. He had no ki control, but he still had his decent PL. The fact is, Uub isn't anywhere near kid buu at the 28th budokai.


Copyright Neo Era Media, Inc. 1999-2014.
All Rights Reserved.