Neoseeker.com Forum Thread: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion - page 15

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Author:   Dudeguy
Date:   Jan 09, 09 at 11:09am (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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quote Peek_a_buu
Well, everyone knows my thoughts for another Cel-shaded Zelda game.
Sorry to break it to ya Peek, but I don't remember what your view is, and your post is just vague enough for me to maintain my lack of knowledge.

I'd be neutral on cell shading. My complaint for TP's graphics aren't that they're poor, but bland. I got so tired of brown-green by the end of that game.



Author:   Peek_a_buu
Date:   Jan 09, 09 at 12:46pm (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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quote Dudeguy
quote Peek_a_buu
Well, everyone knows my thoughts for another Cel-shaded Zelda game.
Sorry to break it to ya Peek, but I don't remember what your view is, and your post is just vague enough for me to maintain my lack of knowledge.
Pfft, whatever. In any case, it was a figure of speech.

The graphics in TP were beautiful. I don't care what anyone says. That engine made the scenery look gorgeous, especially when it was sunset. I was in awe when playing through it, but despite that, I agree with Dudeguy in that in general they were bland. However, I thought Lake Hylia was a high point and looked alot like scenes in Fable, which is a positive.

But overall, I just love Cel-Shading. I can't get enough of it, and personally I think The Wind Waker got it spot on.




Author:   Barmy Brat
Date:   Jan 09, 09 at 9:34pm (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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quote Dudeguy
My complaint for TP's graphics aren't that they're poor, but bland. I got so tired of brown-green by the end of that game.
Oh no, the graphics aren't poor at all. The Goron Mines is one of my favorite dungeons largely because the lava effects are so pretty. But when you compare "realism done well" - like in the Goron Mines - to its cel-shaded counterpart (Dragon Roost Cavern), I think the latter will always be more artistically impressive.



Author:   T0a5t3r
Date:   Jan 09, 09 at 9:44pm (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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The cel shading is certainly more alternative, more aesthetically innovative, but i'd still say the Twilight Princess graphics are harder to produce, and personally i think they're more impressive.

TP reminds me a lot more of OOT, too. Zelda's all about nostalgia with me.



Author:   Barmy Brat
Date:   Jan 09, 09 at 10:45pm (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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I heard (way back before WW came out, when it was still necessary to defend its visual style on the internet) that cel-shading is actually more complicated than "realistic" graphics. I honestly don't know if that's true, though.

I think what I like about the cel-shading is the creativity associated with it; Wind Waker was so much more visually inspired than anything in Twilight Princess, and I don't think that's coincidence. It seems logical to me to assume that a game that tries so hard to look real and believable ("believable" in the context of the imaginary world, at least) is almost always going to be less interesting to look at than a game that throws realism out the window and just does its own thing.

For example, the brilliant Helmaroc (?) King - the big bird who kidnaps your sister - would probably look terrible with TP's visual style because the sort of crazy fantasy that typifies his design just wouldn't work.

I think Ocarina worked because the graphics were still a long way off from being "realistic" back then, to the point where even if they tried making it look real it still came across as a bit cartoony. They had the technology to do it come Twilight Princess, but I feel they overdid it by far.



Author:   T0a5t3r
Date:   Jan 09, 09 at 11:29pm (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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quote Barmy Brat
It seems logical to me to assume that a game that tries so hard to look real and believable ("believable" in the context of the imaginary world, at least) is almost always going to be less interesting to look at than a game that throws realism out the window and just does its own thing.

For example, the brilliant Helmaroc (?) King - the big bird who kidnaps your sister - would probably look terrible with TP's visual style because the sort of crazy fantasy that typifies his design just wouldn't work.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

Personally, i love the Cel shaded Moblins.



I can't even put my finger on it. They're comically funny, in a way, but i still get anxious trying to sneak past them with a barrell. It's more the design than anything; i just love them.

Bokoblins in TP, however, i can't say the same for.

Again, i don't know why. They remind me of old women. Blue old women.

Darknuts as well, i much preferred in WW. I don't think Bubbles work too well in TP, either. Like you said, i think Oot sat on a happy middle ground between realism and more cartoony graphics. There's something off-puttingly contradictory about seeing a skull with wings flapping about in an otherwise near-realistic game.



Author:   bbb7002004
Date:   Jan 10, 09 at 7:48pm (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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From my understanding, Cel-Shading is a difficult look to program, but is less taxing on the hardware. The computer doesn't have to load the numerous textures need for realistic graphics with Cel shading, and allows the designers to do things like the giant world and super long draw distances seen in WW.

I would love the next zelda to be cel-shaded, but what I really want to see, and think is massively needed, is a change in setting.



Author:   Jelar
Date:   Jan 10, 09 at 8:11pm (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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HW ABUT THE FUUTURE LOL LONK COULD HAVE GUNS AN A MOTRCYCOL.

Really though, that's what's wrong with fantasy as a genre, it's not that diverse. You're pretty much limited to different styles of the middle ages...

Unless they kicked it to the early industrial revolution kinda like Fable did. Then again, Fable did it first. They could go further into the past... but that's a shitty idea. So again we're down to just making the middle ages look like a different kind of middle ages.



Author:   bbb7002004
Date:   Jan 10, 09 at 10:17pm (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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I'm not even talking about a timeframe really, just put it somewhere other than Hyrule, specifically the OoT Hyrule. OoT was a fantastic game, but the last three console entries in the series have all traced their roots back to that game, limiting the games possibilities into that specific universe. Its time to put OoT down, and try something new.



Author:   Jelar
Date:   Jan 10, 09 at 10:55pm (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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But how do you get away from Hyrule? Every single not flooded world in the entire Zelda series is exactly the same.

Sure you can change the races, the bad guy, the collectibles, and the layout of the map, but at the end of the day you're still going to be traversing a large grassy field to reach themed location containing a themed dungeon. Nono guys, this time it's Subrosians instead of Gorons underground. Same shit.

Unless they start going really, really outside the box on these places, no matter what they're calling it, it'll feel like you're in Hyrule again. That's the trap.

And cutting the link (Hurr) to Hyrule would cut the timeline, and that'd go over well with the fans.

I'm all ears on how to get around this, but all my ideas on the subject evolve into a female version of Link chasing her childhood friend (Zelda figure) through eight emotion themed dungeons. She'd have to traverse a gauntlet of psychological mindtraps within the misty streets of a Sweeney Todd looking early industrial countryside; set in place by a Professor Moriarty type figure who drives a steam powered gunship time machine. Strong lesbian overtones throughout. Strong. I mean, hell, I'd play it, but I don't think that's Zelda anymore.

By the way, my videogame would be awesome.



Author:   T0a5t3r
Date:   Jan 10, 09 at 11:24pm (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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Miyamoto said there'l be a major change in the next Zelda game.

I can imagine Ganon terrorising a whole new world of people. Change of protagonist, change of setting. Simple. Throw a damsel in distress into the mix and I'd be interested to see what Nintendo could come up with now that i've ripped away the proverbial shackles that are Link and Hyrule.



Author:   Peek_a_buu
Date:   Jan 11, 09 at 12:14pm (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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Maybe the next Zelda adventure could totally be changed and instead star a pubescant Link going through the stages of puberty, like dungeons he must overcome and then at the end of the game, defeat the final boss by asking out the hot girl who developed early.



Author:   Barmy Brat
Date:   Jan 18, 09 at 12:28am (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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I go on holiday for a week, and when I get back, Peek's post is still the latest reply. I'm disappointed.



Author:   Ganondorf 5326
Date:   Jan 18, 09 at 12:46am (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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I really would like another cel-shaded Zelda, but really not in the way that The Wind Waker used it. It just seemed to be a bit bright... and it hurt my eyes...

Take a look at Okami's screenshots. Cel-shaded used in that way generally caused many people to ooh and ahh. I think that if Zelda in general took a dive towards Okami, we might just have games that none can compete with.



Author:   Barmy Brat
Date:   Jan 18, 09 at 1:31am (PST)
Subject:   re: [Leave your Cats on the Floor] General Discussion
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Okami is an ugly, blurry pile of shit. No kidding. I genuinely think people are too hung up about how "different" the game's artistic direction is to notice that the game's artistic direction is utter trash.


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