Neoseeker.com Forum Thread: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect) - page 1

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original thread: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/54475/t1771150-this-game-might-end-up-pretty-good-from-more-than-just-casual-aspect/


Author:   stabbedbyahippie
Date:   Oct 05, 12 at 3:51pm (PST)
Subject:   This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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Alright if you just play casually with friends, ignore this thread because smash is always a great party game, and that's not what I'm speculating about.

Now to all the homies out there who play competitively, lets be honest, it was bad for competitive play. It was slow, there wasn't a lot of depth in the gameplay and the mechanics of the game just really lent itself to stalling and keep-away.

I would say the majority of people I've seen talk about this game say it will only be worse than brawl. I used to think that too, but I've changed my opinion due to some key things that I believe will possibly make this a good game

1. Namco

Straight up, Namco KNOWS how to make fighting games. If they're the ones designing how the game plays, then I have faith. I'm definitely not gonna say they're the best at what they do, because they definitely are not, but they do release some really good games.

2. There is profit in competitive gaming

LoL/Dota 2/Starcraft 2/SF IV all get a lot of exposure and have big money being thrown around all the time due to how popular they are as competitive games. However, smash is unique in that it can be a popular competitive game AND STILL BE FUN FOR CASUALS. An obvious example would be that Melee was the Gamecube's best selling game but still managed to be very competitive.

3. They can't make the game engine any worse

100% opinion, but the game being any slower would make it unfun to even casuals, and who the *bleep* would like air-tripping

4. Nintendo said they're going in a more "hardcore" direction with the Wii U

I think i may have misquoted a little but you get the point. I don't know how much i believe them but it's enough to have some faith. Honestly, there'd be no reason to hire Namco if they planned on making the game even more wack

Those are all my reasons. If you have a problem with any of this.....well I don't really go on neo often enough to debate any of this LOL.

Do I think it will be better than melee? 95% sure that, no, it will not be. The way the gaming market is nowadays, everything is becoming a little bit dumbed down and slower paced. Competitive melee is an accident, and no company (other than aksys lol), would make a game that fast and that technical with competitive play in mind.

Do I think it'll be better than brawl? Uh yeah, that's why I made this thread haha. Sakurai very purposely shafted competitive play in brawl. Yet, people still play Brawl competitively in droves, so I'd guess that instead of going in an even MORE uncompetitive direction with the next release, he will just kind of accept it. If he tried to make it even more uncompetitive, he could very well hurt the gameplay for casuals as well, and that's what makes up the biggest proportion of sales, so I don't think he'll go for that.

tl;dr this game will be PROBABLY be better than brawl, but if it's not, then that's OKAY cuz i'll be playing Melee till I'm 92






Author:   BlueLore
Date:   Oct 06, 12 at 5:30am (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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sakurai already said he wants the game to be more balanced than brawl,so I think it will better for competetive play.

But I don't think it will be as good in terms of competetive play as melee,since many advanced techniques from melee were(as far as i know) bugs and sakurai said he didn't like that melee turned out so competetive.



Author:   AgatioGanon
Date:   Oct 06, 12 at 11:34am (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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I think this game could be really good if they

Have a better roster

Besides Waluigi becoming playable, I don't see any point of adding anymore Mario characters to the roster

They could put Bowser Jr in, but personally I think that turn out lame because Bowser's already in it

Ganondorf has a new moveset

Zero Suit Samus could be chosen on the roster screen like Sheik

Remove pointless characters like Catain Falcon, ROB, Lucas, Ness, Game and Watch and Jigglypuff

Remove rediculous assist trophies like Resetti, Nintendog, Tingle and Devil (flying underwear beast)

Add these assist trophies, Saturos, Jenna, Micaiah, Mona, Viridi and Kritter

Remove the smash ball mechanic

Replace the smash ball final smash mechanic with a mechanic simular to the Street Fighter 4 special moves used on the 3ds.

Add these playable characters, Sonic, Megaman, Isaac, Lyn, Ashley, Waluigi, King K Rool, Ridley, Asuka Kazama, and Bayonetta.

Namco, don't you dare take away the vs mode for one players like you do in Tekken games, that's stupid, I like beating up a cpu Mario every now and then.

Screw Adventure mode, just remove it and not have a Solo mode because of crappy it is

And lets not make this a competative game because it shouldn't be made to be hard



Author:   timeshine
Date:   Oct 06, 12 at 2:56pm (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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quote GaTheZakk
Have a better roster
Yes.
Besides Waluigi becoming playable, I don't see any point of adding anymore Mario characters to the roster
Not waluigi, i'd prefer bowser jr. Or even someone else.
They could put Bowser Jr in, but personally I think that turn out lame because Bowser's already in it
Well if they actually make bowser jr. I would hope they wouldn't be stupid and give the same/too similar of a moveset.
Ganondorf has a new moveset
yes.
Zero Suit Samus could be chosen on the roster screen like Sheik
there is a button combo but this would be a bit more convienient.
Remove pointless characters like Catain Falcon, ROB, Lucas, Ness, Game and Watch and Jigglypuff
no.
Remove rediculous assist trophies like Resetti, Nintendog, Tingle and Devil (flying underwear beast)
I say give the option to remove them (as in allow only certain assist trophies) but dont remove them all together. Smash bros is designed to be a party fighting game and it excels at that. If you want to be competitive turn off the items ez.
Add these assist trophies, Saturos, Jenna, Micaiah, Mona, Viridi and Kritter
yeah.
Remove the smash ball mechanic
no.
Replace the smash ball final smash mechanic with a mechanic simular to the Street Fighter 4 special moves used on the 3ds.
i don;t know how that works but if it involves input combinations like most fighting games then no as smashbros is meant to be easy to pick up and excels very well at that.
Add these playable characters, Sonic, Megaman, Isaac, Lyn, Ashley, Waluigi, King K Rool, Ridley, Asuka Kazama, and Bayonetta.
Yes-sonic, megaman,issac,lyn. Maybe-ridley, ashley NO-rest
Namco, don't you dare take away the vs mode for one players like you do in Tekken games, that's stupid, I like beating up a cpu Mario every now and then.
without vs. mode the game would be bad, definetely would not buy. It would lose its ability to be a party game
Screw Adventure mode, just remove it and not have a Solo mode because of crappy it is
no, I liked how subspace was different
And lets not make this a competative game because it shouldn't be made to be hard
A game can be competitive and simply to pick up at the same time.




Author:   PwnageMaster67
Date:   Oct 06, 12 at 5:27pm (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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quote GaTheZakk
Have a better roster
Sure.

quote GaTheZakk
Besides Waluigi becoming playable, I don't see any point of adding anymore Mario characters to the roster
Waluigi has no chance of becoming playable, he has never appeared in a main Mario or Wario game.

quote GaTheZakk
They could put Bowser Jr in, but personally I think that turn out lame because Bowser's already in it
So you want Waluigi, but not Bowser Jr? BJ has appeared in almost all the Mario main games since his first appearance. Whats your logic.

quote GaTheZakk
Ganondorf has a new moveset
I think this is guaranteed.

quote GaTheZakk
Zero Suit Samus could be chosen on the roster screen like Sheik
This would be very helpful.

quote GaTheZakk
Remove pointless characters like Catain Falcon, ROB, Lucas, Ness, Game and Watch and Jigglypuff
How are they pointless? Because you don't like them? You're not the most important person ever, you know.

quote GaTheZakk
Remove rediculous assist trophies like Resetti, Nintendog, Tingle and Devil (flying underwear beast)
Look at timeshine's post, I agree with him.

quote GaTheZakk
Add these assist trophies, Saturos, Jenna, Micaiah, Mona, Viridi and Kritter
Most of those are fairly pointless, because they don't really fit.

quote GaTheZakk
Remove the smash ball mechanic
How about no?

quote GaTheZakk
Replace the smash ball final smash mechanic with a mechanic simular to the Street Fighter 4 special moves used on the 3ds.
Why would Sakurai replace something he planned to do since SSB64 with something that came from another game?

quote GaTheZakk
Add these playable characters, Sonic, Megaman, Isaac, Lyn, Ashley, Waluigi, King K Rool, Ridley, Asuka Kazama, and Bayonetta.
Sonic is already in the game. Megaman, Isaac, Lynn, King K. Rool and Ridley are likely, but the others aren't.

quote GaTheZakk
Namco, don't you dare take away the vs mode for one players like you do in Tekken games, that's stupid, I like beating up a cpu Mario every now and then.
They won't, because thats the whole point of Smash. -_-

quote GaTheZakk
Screw Adventure mode, just remove it and not have a Solo mode because of crappy it is
Again, why? Because you don't like it? A lot of people liked it and want it to return.

quote GaTheZakk
And lets not make this a competative game because it shouldn't be made to be hard
Some competitive games aren't hard, maybe you just suck at that game.

Thats just my little rant about your post.




Author:   Gotenks
Date:   Oct 06, 12 at 5:40pm (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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GaTheZakk doesn't seem to understand what this thread is about even considering stabbed is talking about COMPETITIVE PLAY! Items aren't used in competitive play. Not to mention, his post is just what his wishlist contains. Which we have heard a million times because he always brings it up in most of his posts. Which gets tiring when he doesn't really listen to any reasoning. I mean just read his post where he calls Falcon, ROB, G&W, Jigglypuff, Ness and Lucas pointless and then implies Waluigi is a better character.

Not even worth dissecting his post because I've done it in every thread already. :3

But onto what stabbed posted because this thread is more about his post than Ga's lol.

I agree with Brawl being pretty poor in competitive play. I know I was never that active in the Melee community until I played Brawl. Melee had a great competitive play, it's just a shame that I never got into the competitive scene with Melee since it was big here...or at least bigger than Brawl. So hopefully they are gonna make this game better in competitive play then Brawl. I enjoyed it in Brawl but it still was eh when compared to Melee.

Plus Namco is working on the game so I have faith with them.







Author:   AgatioGanon
Date:   Oct 06, 12 at 6:06pm (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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Actually I don't give a crap if Waluigi or Bowser Jr are added, theyre just mere Mario characters.

Fine keep those butt-heads I said to remove, more butts to kick in vs mode, as long as they don't remove characters I like, then it's cool.

I may not be the most important person, but I'm The Zakk and I'm AWESOME!

I looked at Timeshine's post, I agree as long as I could shut off the unwanted assist trophies, that's cool with me.

How could you not like my assist trophyideas, Pwnage Master, my assist trophy ideas are awesome.

At least Timeshine seems to like them.

I still would like to see the smash ball replaced with a better mechanic, because I would like to see final smashes used in a match without using items.

Right now it's merely a item, I would like them to improve it so it could be called a "special move."

What I ment about the final smash idea is not a complex combination to release it, but merely ffill up a final smash meter, then push B or the touch screen to unleash the final smash.

Sakurai planned to make each character have a cool final smash to use, but he never his goal was never to make smash balls.

I don't suck, I'm merely looking out for any rookies who play this game, I kind of don't like when Nintedo makes games that are too hard.



Author:   Gotenks
Date:   Oct 06, 12 at 6:43pm (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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quote GaTheZakk
I may not be the most important person, but I'm The Zakk and I'm AWESOME!
Says you. I doubt many other people on here would agree with you.

quote GaTheZakk
I still would like to see the smash ball replaced with a better mechanic, because I would like to see final smashes used in a match without using items.
You can turn off every item except the Smash Ball in Brawl so you could play a match with only Final Smashes.

quote GaTheZakk
What I ment about the final smash idea is not a complex combination to release it, but merely ffill up a final smash meter, then push B or the touch screen to unleash the final smash.
Aka collect the Smash Ball then press B. Real original, it's the same way as it already is.

quote GaTheZakk
Sakurai planned to make each character have a cool final smash to use, but he never his goal was never to make smash balls.
Provide use a link to where you found this. Sakurai created this game and he decided to add the Smash Ball. If it wasn't his goal to make them as you're saying, he wouldn't of added them in Brawl in the first place. Stop posting your opinion like it's a fact.





Author:   Swampasaur
Date:   Oct 06, 12 at 10:21pm (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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quote stabbedbyahippie
Now to all the homies out there who play competitively, lets be honest, it was bad for competitive play. It was slow, there wasn't a lot of depth in the gameplay and the mechanics of the game just really lent itself to stalling and keep-away.
There was a lot of depth the Brawl gameplay. Not as much as melee, but to say it did not have depth is straight up lieing.

quote stabbedbyahippie
3. They can't make the game engine any worse
I SMELL A CHALLENGE!!!

quote stabbedbyahippie
Do I think it will be better than melee? 95% sure that, no, it will not be
Not with that attitude. Yes, competitive Melee was an accident, but you're making it sound like an accident is the best they can do. Have some faith.

quote stabbedbyahippie
Sakurai very purposely shafted competitive play in brawl.
Link to when he said that he tried to make it less competitive?

quote stabbedbyahippie
Yet, people still play Brawl competitively in droves, so I'd guess that instead of going in an even MORE uncompetitive direction with the next release, he will just kind of accept it. If he tried to make it even more uncompetitive, he could very well hurt the gameplay for casuals as well, and that's what makes up the biggest proportion of sales, so I don't think he'll go for that.
You say that like people playing Brawl competitively is a bad thing. Sakurai doesn't hate competitive gamers. If he did, he would not have put things like tournament mode in there.


Look, I play melee competitively too dude. I just got 2nd in a tournament with my Mewtwo about two weeks ago. Yes, I do fancy stuff like edgeguarding, dash dancing (not wavedashing though, never saw a point in it, plus Mewtwo's is just terrible), so I know the competitive scene and all of its techniques. One thing that turned me off from the scene, was the massive hate for Brawl. It's crazy. People mod it to suit their tastes because they refuse to adjust. I just find that silly. Brawl is a new game with a new engine. If you want to play Melee. Just play Melee. Play Brawl as a new game. Relearn everything. Learning how to play was half the fun of Melee anyways right?

I don't care, if you like Melee more. You have good reasons to and I agree with some of your points, but please do not insult the people who love and play Brawl competitvely by saying that Brawl was terrible and that Melee was better. Your opinion is not fact. If I had a choice between playing Brawl or Melee, wanna know what I would pick? Brawl. Any day of the week. I like the physics overall, MORE than I ever did in Melee. Sure some things about Melee, physics I miss dearly (dashdancing in particular), but over all I have a lot more fun with Brawl. Does that mean I think Brawl is better than Melee?

No. They are different. Differenct but equal. Both are fun as hell and I'm glad Nintendo made them. I play them both to this day.



Author:   stabbedbyahippie
Date:   Oct 07, 12 at 12:18am (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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quote Swampasaur
There was a lot of depth the Brawl gameplay. Not as much as melee, but to say it did not have depth is straight up lieing.
I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I didn't mean that brawl was straight up no-depth, rock-paper-scissors, because it's not. There are options, tricks and techs you can do but the mechanics were dumbed down quiteeeee a bit. The removal of powerful movement techniques (dash dancing/wavedashing) plus the existence of tripping really puts a damper on spacing. That combined with the universal buffs to spotdodging and lack of shield stun makes the on-stage game really simplified. There are some tricks and things that one can employ but those are mostly gimmicks and not really reliable long term. That's also just scratching the surface, BUT AGAIN not saying that brawl has no depth, just saying it could use some more lol

quote
I SMELL A CHALLENGE!!!
lol

quote
Not with that attitude. Yes, competitive Melee was an accident, but you're making it sound like an accident is the best they can do. Have some faith.
It's certainly not the best they CAN do, but current gen fighting games are just naturally designed to be easier than their predecessors of the past decade. SF IV is easier than SF 3, KOF 13 is easier than its older iterations, the Blazblue series is easier than the Guilty Gear series, MvC 3 is a whole hell of a lot easier than MvC 2. Most people will say the older games are better and are deeper as fighters, but the new games are extremely popular because they're more accessible, and they aren't BAD. All those games are all still pretty good games in their own right! So if it is designed to be more competitive, I do believe smash 4 will follow the current trend and be quite a bit easier than melee but still a pretty good game.

quote
Link to when he said that he tried to make it less competitive?
Not sure where to find the original interview, but it's pretty widely accepted that sakurai is not a fan of competitive gaming.

quote
You say that like people playing Brawl competitively is a bad thing.
Not really. All I said was that Brawl has a large competitive scene despite what sakurai intended.

quote
Sakurai doesn't hate competitive gamers. If he did, he would not have put things like tournament mode in there.
There's really very little effort put into tournament mode. Not enough for me to think that he meant it for anything other than friendly fun. It's limited to only single elimination, best of 1, you can't save the results, yada yada etc etc.

quote
but please do not insult the people who love and play Brawl competitvely by saying that Brawl was terrible and that Melee was better.
I did not explicitly say brawl was terrible, nor did I insult anyone who played it. I merely was honest about the mechanics of the game to lay the groundwork for the rest of the post. I tried to be as unoffensive as possible, but there's only so much I can do when the whole point of my post is that smash 4 will probably be better than brawl.

quote
Your opinion is not fact
Well of course it's not. You're not gonna find any concrete facts about what game is "better"; what people like is subjective. My post is just trying to logically appeal to a competitive player.

The rest of this post has nothing to do with the actual topic

quote
Look, I play melee competitively too dude. I just got 2nd in a tournament with my Mewtwo about two weeks ago. Yes, I do fancy stuff like edgeguarding, dash dancing (not wavedashing though, never saw a point in it, plus Mewtwo's is just terrible), so I know the competitive scene and all of its techniques.
I don't wanna be mean but the level of play at that tournament must have been at rock-bottom if second place was a mewtwo player who doesn't even consider wave-dashing useful. Certainly WDing isn't some magical technique, but it's uses for spacing and out of shield game are immeasurable. Also Mewtwo's WD is fine lol

and here's a video of my falco just so you know I'm not full of shit lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJeJV65rAQQ



Author:   timeshine
Date:   Oct 07, 12 at 12:57am (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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quote GaTheZakk
At least Timeshine seems to like them.
I feel bad now that I only said yeah 'cause I liked the idea of more assist trophies, I didn't actual read which ones you wanted...



Author:   Swampasaur
Date:   Oct 07, 12 at 12:57am (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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quote stabbedbyahippie
Well of course it's not. You're not gonna find any concrete facts about what game is "better"; what people like is subjective. My post is just trying to logically appeal to a competitive player.
Alright, sorry about getting on your case then. For a minute, I thought you were one of those people who hated Brawl with a burning passion without appreciating the stuff it got right. I apologize.

quote stabbedbyahippie
. SF IV is easier than SF 3, KOF 13 is easier than its older iterations, the Blazblue series is easier than the Guilty Gear series, MvC 3 is a whole hell of a lot easier than MvC 2. Most people will say the older games are better and are deeper as fighters
I agree that the older iterations were harder, although some of them were for the wrong reasons. One of the reason MvC2 was so hard was because the roster was terribly broken for example.


quote stabbedbyahippie
I don't wanna be mean but the level of play at that tournament must have been at rock-bottom if second place was a mewtwo player who doesn't even consider wave-dashing useful. Certainly WDing isn't some magical technique, but it's uses for spacing and out of shield game are immeasurable. Also Mewtwo's WD is fine lol
It was to tell the truth. Local tournament. Joined for fun. I just work around wavedashing to be honest. Teleporting tricks seems to work better for me. I'm not sure why.

quote stabbedbyahippie
and here's a video of my falco just so you know I'm not full of shit lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJeJV65rAQQ
Lol, No one said that at all.

Nice laser usage by the way.



Author:   BlueLore
Date:   Oct 07, 12 at 5:25am (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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well I think the fact that tripping exists seems to be enough proof that sakurai wanted to reduce the competetive play.



Author:   RegalBryant
Date:   Oct 20, 12 at 10:56am (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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quote PwnageMaster67
BJ has appeared in almost all the Mario main games since his first appearance.
You said BJ. hurrhurrhurr.



quote BlueLore
well I think the fact that tripping exists seems to be enough proof that sakurai wanted to reduce the competetive play.
I think the fact tripping exists proves that Sakurai simply didn't understand fun.



Author:   AgatioGanon
Date:   Oct 21, 12 at 9:40pm (PST)
Subject:   re: This game might end up pretty good (from more than just a casual aspect)
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Actually I'd perfer if they just did away with all assist trophies.

Or at least make it so that there isn't any stupid assist trophies, that's a waste of assist trophies ideas.

The worst thing is when the assist trophies are characters that should be on the roster.

If they can't make any good ones then don't make any at all.

Less Mario crap would this a good game

More Zelda stuff because it's the best Nintendo franchise in the world and anything Mario needs to kneel before it.


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