Neoseeker.com Forum Thread: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage? - page 1

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original thread: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/52479/t1770145-tips-for-extremely-weak-mage/


Author:   SimDalmatian
Date:   Oct 03, 12 at 9:47am (PST)
Subject:   Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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I have an Altmer mage called Umbacaryl who is very weak. He's Level 10 and finds it very difficult to kill enemies. I did Hillgrund's Tomb yesterday and it was a nightmare. I kept running out of magicka so quickly and the mobs weren't dead! I don't know if that was a particularly difficult dungeon or is it that I'm as weak as watered-down ale? Restless Draugr are the worst of all and I had difficulty killing regular bandits. Bandits! I checked my difficulty and it's only on Adept. Wtf? Magicka regen is a horror as well.

I need help for making a mage type class more playable. I have all the novice Destruction spells and Firebolt, I use stoneflesh and healing most though. Should I just pump points into Magicka until I have a 500/600 total Magicka pool or am I just doing it badly. I've played magi before and I remember them as being quite powerful. Help?



Author:   CatouttaHell
Date:   Oct 03, 12 at 12:08pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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I play a pure mage on master difficulty and it's indeed extremely difficult in the beginning. The important thing is to constantly stay on the move no matter what. Strafe around to avoid arrows (most archers still one-shot me and I'm level 54 now; Archery in this game is broken) and leap on places that nobody else can reach to recharge your Magicka safely.

You need to get the Dual Casting Destruction and the Impact perks ASAP as they will let you stagger any enemy in the game with every attack with all Destruction spells that are Apprentice or higher.

Also, find something that has a Fortify Destruction enchantment and disenchant it. Enchant your hood, necklace, ring and robes with it using Grand or Black Soul Gems and keep re-enchanting new ones every time you can get a higher Enchantment.

Eventually once you hit 100 Enchanting and the proper perks you can get 100% reduction for Destruction and cast Destruction spells forever.

You can also use enchant your gear to increase the amount of Magicka you have while wearing.

You also need to get the Mage Armour perks as they will make all Alteration Flesh spells 3x more powerful when you have all three ranks.

Even low level Conjuration spells are extremely useful as you can use your zombie/Daedric henchmen as meat shields or to distract opponents. I usually summon Familiars if I'm about to charge into an archer who is aware of my presence to force them to waste the arrow they have in their quiver and buy me time to destroy them before they fire again.

Illusion is very useful if you're overwhelmed as you can force your opponents to kill each other, to stop attacking you, or to run off.

Get all three words of Disarm too ASAP (you need to join the Thieves Guild to get one of them but there's a mod that lets you avoid that) as it lets you disarm all opponents that are level 30 and under, that includes ALL Bandits and all Draugr excluding Draugr Death Overlords and top tier Deathlords (the ones that use Ebony weapons and can actually ragdoll you with Unrelenting Force.)

Three words of Slow Time are very useful too as they practically freeze everybody but you for 16 seconds, giving you time to destroy your opponents without them being able to retaliate or to escape.

Visit the College of Winterhold if you haven't yet too as the higher tier spells in the game can only be bought from there. If you're struggling that much though I'd advise you take a Carriage there as the way there is swarming with enemies that can easily one-shot a low level character (Snow/Cave Bears, Dire Wolves, Ice Wraiths, Snowy Sabre-Tooth Cats, etc.)



Author:   SimDalmatian
Date:   Oct 03, 12 at 3:27pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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Thanks for the help! It's just that I'm running a Barbarian character at the same time and uses to killing enemies quickly, preferably with a Battleaxe!
I probably need to also upgrade my spells to adept or expert. I have a perk saved for Impact when I reach level 40 Destruction. Does anyone know any unique rings/circlets/amulets that are beneficial to the discerning wizard? Or any useful spells or staves?



Author:   Antipathy
Date:   Oct 03, 12 at 5:48pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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3 word Fus Roh Dah is a life saver. Against ranged foes you can attempt to disarm them. Remember to use traps against enemies, trickering rock slides etc.

Fusrohdar and invisibility is a good combination. Are you a PC player as well; there are some excellent core magic redesign mods; without huge spell mods adding 3 million essentially useless spells in return for the uber death dealer.



Author:   Chaos Team
Date:   Oct 03, 12 at 6:03pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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Learn to run away fast.



But really, what I learned is to enter a lot of your time into Conjuration. Dremora Lords save can save your ass.




Author:   One Luck
Date:   Oct 03, 12 at 6:48pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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I did a mage character (actually a necromancer) and you will get your ass handed to you for the first 15-20 levels. Mages are pretty useless at first, but then you get more magicka and better spells and it starts to work.

A big pro-tip: Don't try to do too many things at once or you will run out of magicka very quickly. If you raise a zombie then start using powerful destruction spells you will have no magicka when you need it. This sounds like common sense but in the heat of battle it gets easily overlooked.



Author:   Turkagent
Date:   Oct 05, 12 at 1:19pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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I've created a pure magic character (A high elf) that uses primarily conjuration(Necromancy) and Destruction. Tips I would advice:

1. Always have an atronarch/zombie with you.
2. Get the Full knockdown shout as soon as feasible. It will make it possible to run away from anything and save your life.
3. Get Impact and prioritize destruction perks. Also use Runes. They are are fire useful in getting that extra hit in.

Around the time I got to lvl 50 in my Destruction (and the same in my conjuration) I could pretty much kill anything and had no problems with my character (it got to this point around level 17). Early levels suck... a lot. Just do the Greybeard's quest first so you can get the full shout which will make everything 10 times easier.

This of course is on Master. Anything below that shouldn't be too difficult.



Author:   skythelegend
Date:   Oct 05, 12 at 3:42pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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The reason you're so weak and not brokenly good is because you focus purely on dealing, resisting and healing damage, rather than summoning or controlling stuff to do it for you.


Face it, Destruction is pointless n Skyrim, the only time it's useful is if you focus on it enough at low levels, that it is the only Skill you actually use... This allows you to deal far more damage than any other attack type for the level you should be.
Alteration is better concentrated on for it's utility Spells. Do not use it for Armour unless you can justify it with a large boost to your Health and a reduction to the Alteration Spells' cost via Enchantment... Yeah, you're better off never increasing Magicka for the whole game, especially if you enjoy Combat.
Using Alteration Spells to protect yourself is inefficient, if you can kill something within the Spell's Spell duration, then you generally didn't need it. If you're still fighting something by the time it wears off, then you're going to have to recast the Spell. As for Restoration... I have only one thing I like about this whole Skill and that's the late game Necromage Perk.

So three Magic Skills down, three to go.
Illusion is the bread and butter for the most powerful of the caster builds, it allows you complete and total control of all enemies... Except Dragons, I think, I haven't actually tried a build against them.
Conjuration is also very useful, even for Pure Melee/Archer builds. As something as fragile as a Mage is supposed to be, it's a source of Conjured Daedra, who can wear down anything. Or create Undead, who require a corpse and are nowhere near as powerful.
Enchanting, this becomes brokenly good at top level. Imagine, FREE SPELLCASTING. How does this sound?


So now you'll be interested in useful Spells and how to use them now, won't you?

Fury/Frenzy: Make target hostile to anything that moves, including allies and especially you.
Mayhem: Area version of the above, don't need to be in same room as enemies. Maybe not even on same floor.
Detect Life/Undead: Don't need to be able to see enemies, just flash it and look for the red mist, this is a very expensive Spell in terms of Magicka cost, but totally worth it in small bursts.
Muffle: Silence dem footstep! Whether or not it really works, this is still great for training Illusion.
Invisibility: Okay, now this doesn't allow you to walk right up to enemies outside Sneak mode, but it will greatly augment your existing Sneak Skill.
Conjure Flame Atronach: It's quick, has a ranged attack and can be summoned almost anywhere.
Flaming Familiar: If in doubt, nuke it. Seriously, when this thing dies, and it tends to die very quickly, it explodes causing a load of damage.
Conjure Dremora Lord: HAM! And greatswords! Big flaming greatswords! These guys can drop any enemy in the game in such a short time, it's just terrible.
Transmute: Turn Iron Ore into Silver Ore into Gold Ore. Fantastic way to make oodles of cash, increase your Alteration, Smithing and Speech Skills all at once.
Telekinesis: So you can walk into the entrance of a room, take the lure/loot off the trap trigger on the far side and watch the trap set off as far away from you as you feel safe. You can also throw stuff, I think as a weapon, though I haven't personally tried it.
Water Breathing: Be like an Argonian for a minute. Okay there are a couple of things under water, that require you to either be an Argonian, or have this Spell cast and to be quick. Though most of the time you can just go down and be done before a Slaughterfish knows you're there.
Calm: Sometimes you'll just want to stop an enemy where they stand. This does that. Dual Casting Calm helped me kill a Mammoth on my own, who knows what it could do for you. I kept switching between this and Firebolt btw, just in case you were wondering how I caused damage.

So there you have it, not a single Restoration or Destruction Spell there, unless you count Firebolt. Any Fire Spell is good for setting fire to the many pools of Oil in Skyrim's dungeons. Shock Damage isn't as good for fighting Mages as it looks, it's a trap. However, it does have the benefit of instantly hitting your targets in range, and with a certain Perk your targets Health is reduced by 15%.
Quiet Casting from Illusion, helps you when Sneak Casting, it affects Spells from ALL Magic Skills... Except Enchant, there are no Spells in that one. Yeah, you should Sneak a lot, you don't need the attention, your minions do.

Becoming a Vampire will help improve the power of Illusion Spells if you can get yourself infected.

Oh yeah, as for Perks, Dual Casting Illusion is the only Dual Casting Perk I would personally invest in. And I wouldn't get any Casting Cost reducing Perks, except Novice and any that unlock the useful Perks.



There you have it, if you're abusing everything here and are still struggling, consider lowering the difficulty.



BTW I mentioned a Melee/Archer build when I was also talking about Conjuration, you can summon weapons that cannot be taken away from you when some Draugr uses it's Disarm Thu'um, these weapons are capable of Banishing Atronachs, Soul Trapping enemies and are as powerful as Base Daedric Weapons with all the Perks (in reverse order of unlocking them). The Bow comes with 100 Arrows (also Daedric) when summoned, so as an Archer, you'd be able to sell all those Arrows you'd find on bodies.
Having a weapon that can instantly kill anything is all well and good, but if you're not into that kind of thing, Bound Weapons can be more useful than normal gear.



Author:   SimDalmatian
Date:   Oct 06, 12 at 12:53pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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Thanks but I'll have you know Illusion is my second highest skill, apart from Alteration. I still get owned by Draugr.



Author:   CatouttaHell
Date:   Oct 06, 12 at 7:35pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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quote skythelegend
Face it, Destruction is pointless n Skyrim
Single-handedly allowing the player to take out Legendary Dragons and Nightmaster Vampires without being hit once, even on master difficulty is pointless?

Destruction is disgustingly overpowered once you have the proper perks and Enchantments. You can easily freeze people in their tracks by spamming Ice Storm or prevent enemies like Dragons and Dwarven Centurion Masters from using anything but their melee attacks by spamming storm attacks.

quote skythelegend
Alteration is better concentrated on for it's utility Spells. Do not use it for Armour unless you can justify it with a large boost to your Health and a reduction to the Alteration Spells' cost via Enchantment... Yeah, you're better off never increasing Magicka for the whole game, especially if you enjoy Combat.
Using Alteration Spells to protect yourself is inefficient, if you can kill something within the Spell's Spell duration, then you generally didn't need it. If you're still fighting something by the time it wears off, then you're going to have to recast the Spell. As for Restoration... I have only one thing I like about this whole Skill and that's the late game Necromage Perk.
With Dual-Casting and the Stability perk you can have a Flesh spell up for several minutes so that's completely false.

You can reach the armour cap for 99 seconds by dual-casting Dragonhide (yes, that's possible) and getting the Stability perk.

Though that really should not ever be necessary considering mages are supposed to be squishy. If you need a high armour rating and/or massive amounts of health that badly you're doing something wrong.

Not to mention Pure Mages do not use any armour other than Alteration, so you'd either have to run around naked or be out of character.



Author:   skythelegend
Date:   Oct 08, 12 at 7:25am (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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quote CatouttaHell
quote skythelegend
Face it, Destruction is pointless n Skyrim
Single-handedly allowing the player to take out Legendary Dragons and Nightmaster Vampires without being hit once, even on master difficulty is pointless?

Destruction is disgustingly overpowered once you have the proper perks and Enchantments. You can easily freeze people in their tracks by spamming Ice Storm or prevent enemies like Dragons and Dwarven Centurion Masters from using anything but their melee attacks by spamming storm attacks.

quote skythelegend
Alteration is better concentrated on for it's utility Spells. Do not use it for Armour unless you can justify it with a large boost to your Health and a reduction to the Alteration Spells' cost via Enchantment... Yeah, you're better off never increasing Magicka for the whole game, especially if you enjoy Combat.
Using Alteration Spells to protect yourself is inefficient, if you can kill something within the Spell's Spell duration, then you generally didn't need it. If you're still fighting something by the time it wears off, then you're going to have to recast the Spell. As for Restoration... I have only one thing I like about this whole Skill and that's the late game Necromage Perk.
With Dual-Casting and the Stability perk you can have a Flesh spell up for several minutes so that's completely false.

You can reach the armour cap for 99 seconds by dual-casting Dragonhide (yes, that's possible) and getting the Stability perk.

Though that really should not ever be necessary considering mages are supposed to be squishy. If you need a high armour rating and/or massive amounts of health that badly you're doing something wrong.

Not to mention Pure Mages do not use any armour other than Alteration, so you'd either have to run around naked or be out of character.
Heard of Robes? You could just enchant some clothing to get the enchantments you need... Speaking of which, you'll notice I bolded some of your post.
There's nothing overpowered about Destruction, what is overpowered in your combo, is Enchanting. You lower the cost of Destruction Spells to 0 and of course you can now kill anything and of course Dual Casting is absolutely worth it every single casting.
However, what if we were to ban Enchantments and only ever increase Magicka?

Now that our Mages only have 100 Health and Stamina, they die if a dragon so much as looks at them and running is rarely an option either. So let's try resisting something that deals exactly 100 (even though I regularly get one shotted with armour) damage with 85% resistance for 99 seconds and fighting back with our level 41 character, so we have a character with 500 Magicka. All Perks in whatever Skill we're using.

Okay, first of all reduce Dragonhide to it's minimum natural cost, which can be as low as 251, so it's doable.

Now how about the cheapest Adept to Expert Spells from Destruction? Basically the Fire ones. Fireball 40, Flamecloak 87, Incinerate 89, Wall of Flames 35 per Second. So how much spamming can you do with 500 Magicka? A little bit, decent enough if you can avoid being hit. It won't make you invincible though, naw, that's what the Conjuration/Illusion Mage is for.

Now let's do Restoration... NEXT!

Conjuration time! Bound Sword has a pitiable base cost of 93, meaning any would be warrior out there can easily have a sword in hand for every fight. As for cheapening the Magicka cost, Conjure Flame Atronach would cost 45. Wow, a summoned minion that lasts up to a minute and causes some nearby enemies to focus on "not you", who'd have thunk it?
Flaming Familar 17, again, enemies focus on not you, but this time you deal area damage with a powerful Spell spammable even from low levels.
Conjure Dremora Lord would be 77, okay now there's definitely no need to spam this one. Casting it twice for a total cost of 154 wouldn't hurt though.

Illusion, well Invisibility would be 100 at it's cheapest and Calm would be 44, 124 when Dual Cast (aka being capable of affecting anything). Fury however, I will give you the Base, Dual Cast Cost. Fury is 187, it's not meant to be spammed in combat, you keep your distance and let the target kill their friends, it affects almost every single enemy in the game.


I am a powergamer, I enjoy building characters that are disgustingly overpowered. I sometimes play as them too. I've built enough Conjuration/Illusion abusing nukes, to know they're just as effective at level 1 as they are at level 81.
When I say something is inefficient, I'm not referring to when you're fully loaded out with 0% Casting Cost Enchantments, I'm talking level 1-81.

quote SimDalmatian
Thanks but I'll have you know Illusion is my second highest skill, apart from Alteration. I still get owned by Draugr.
In order to affect Constructs (such as the Dwemer/Dwarven stuff), Deadra (atronachs) and Undead (like Draugr) you need 100 in Illusion and the Master of the Mind Perk. It's high level, but Illusion is extremely easy to level. Also it may help if you summoned the brokenly good Dremora Lords, or the Flame Atronachs who are decent enough for any fight.
And Sneak, you're very, very squishy. Unless you play the long game and give yourself Health every level, until you can Enchant yourself into free Spellcasting.



Author:   Antipathy
Date:   Oct 08, 12 at 9:48pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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I think Im going to have to start delving into more mind affecting spells in future. 1, ive not done one yet, and 2, I think 'fury' and 'raise dead' spells used in conjunction would be a nice way of actually completing a dungeon without getting hit.



Author:   skythelegend
Date:   Oct 12, 12 at 8:42am (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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quote Antipathy
I think Im going to have to start delving into more mind affecting spells in future. 1, ive not done one yet, and 2, I think 'fury' and 'raise dead' spells used in conjunction would be a nice way of actually completing a dungeon without getting hit.
Well it's already been stated that the biggest flaw in the Raise Dead line of Spells, is that you need a corpse. And the body needs to be low level enough for your spell to work, like with Illusion Spells. The Conjure line of Spells do not suffer these limitations.
If you don't mind having to make a dead body before you have a meatshield, then I can't really give you any reason why you shouldn't.



Author:   Antipathy
Date:   Oct 12, 12 at 6:26pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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Fury = Everyone hates each other

Raise Dead = free soldier

Of course, Alduin will prove to be a right little fuker, but hey ho.



Author:   Lorx
Date:   Oct 12, 12 at 7:42pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Tips for Extremely Weak Mage?
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Conjuring in general is a pretty powerful tree, wins fights pretty easy. On PC there's some mods up for scaling up magic as you progress, which also helps a lot. Makes some skills incredibly too powerful, but certainly better than not having any scaling whatsoever.


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