Neoseeker.com Forum Thread: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion) - page 12

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Author:   BullFish
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 7:48pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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Got back from seeing this late last night. As an action film, it was great. But I just can't buy it as a Batman film.

Bane didn't do it for me. I know this trilogy has been ground in reality, but the lack of Venom and his big (but not huge) size were a disappointment for me. Rocky in Fast Five looked like he would have been a bigger threat. Shitting all over his origins is frustrating, too. As a side note, did they ever explain exactly what his mask was? Was it literally holding his face together, or was it pumping drugs to keep the pain bearable? His voice was hilarious, and just because the important stuff was clear does not forgive the rest of it being so terrible. His death was completely wasted. Killed by a one liner...

That Talia reveal was pathetic. I had it spoiled for me already, so I knew Tate was Talia, but it was just so... stupid.

Batman forgiving Seline was ridonkulous. Yeah, you tricked me, and sure, it was SOLELY because of you that I got my vertebrae knocked loose, but I would love some Catwoman poontang. Let's go to France! On that note, how did Bruce get back to Gotham? There is absolutely no way at all he would have been able to get back.

Jonothan Crane cameo was awesome. I have a huge Cillian Murphy mancrush, so that was good for me. I can't help but feel his role was written for The Joker. "Sold, to the man in the cold sweat" and the awesome line "Death... by exile!" seemed penned specifically for Ledger's Joker. Not going to go into whether Joker would have made the film better or worse, though a few scenes of him running rampant would not have been terrible. We'll never get a Scarecrow/Joker interaction scene. D:

JGl was great, though I thought the reveal of his name being ROBIN was shitty. I had this discussion with my friend I went and saw it with; she said it was fair because casual fans would not know who 'Dick Grayson' or 'Tim Drake' were, but I say *bleep* them. Enough people were going to see this film without pandering to the "casual" (4chan has ruined my vocabulary) fans, that a quick line of a real Robin's name would have been great for those of us that know. I personally would have loved for his name to be Terry (but I am also one of the few that wants a Batman Beyond film...).

Lastly, was Bane's sexy sniper friend meant to be Deadshot? The bullets on the chest made him stand out too much to be a random goon.

On the plus side, though, the plane hijacking, explosions going off (especially in the football stadium) and (my personal favourite) one-on-one fight between Batman and Bane, before Batman got broken, were all fantastic. Michael Caine was god tier and might be my new favourite Alfred. And, omg, FINALLY Batman used his Batarangs. Money well spent, Lucius!

Overall, for me personally, it goes Begins > TDK > Rises.




Author:   Storm
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 8:27pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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It's common for a villain to do this: Best the hero, but wanting to make them suffer, wanting to break them down and humiliate them, they keep them alive...on many, many occasions could they have just killed the heroes off, but they never do, because there's more to it than just killing someone. Now beating someone at their best and seeing the look on their faces as you achieve your goals is much more satisfying. I don't believe in killing someone as any form of punishment. It's too easy. Keeping them alive gives you plenty of options. And hell, to be remembered as the guy who beat Batman, who destroyed his city, etc., it's pretty damn memorable.

Think about this: Why didn't Bane kill Batman in the comics after breaking his back? There are -many- situations just like that throughout the media.

Besides, no one would have expected Bruce to come back with a vengeance as he did. Battered, broken, escaped the pit, there's a reason Bane said "impossible" when he saw the sign.



Author:   Lazzara
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 8:36pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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tbfh, it reminds me a lot of john cena vs the rock in wrestlemania. cena could've finished the rock after an attitude adjustment (i think?) but no, he wanted rock to suffer more and it all went downhill after. it's a typical storyline, dunno why people get upset over it.

selina had to betray batman for her own safety as well. it's not like she wasn't forced to lead batman into the tunnel. it's obvious that selina didn't want to betray batman, otherwise she wouldn't have had a second thought of leaving gotham.



Author:   Slacker
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 8:43pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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To be honest, I think I hyped myself up too much. Maybe watching TDK the day before was a mistake, because I feel that TDKR pales in comparison. I blame Heath Ledger, The Joker would have been a perfect fit in the story. When the prison gets liberated, The Joker hitting the streets would have been the perfect dose of chaos to interfere with both Bats and Bane. Makes me sad to think about what could have been.



Author:   BullFish
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 8:58pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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I thought it was obvious Bruce was actually dead. :/

What are the odds that Bruce and Selina would be in the same seats Alfred saw the not-Bruce in in his story? And auto-pilot fixed or not, he was shown to be in The Bat moments before the nuke went off, which was well AFTER the last chance he had to get out "on top of a building" or something (not sure if it was in this thread, but I am seeing this excuse a lot).




Author:   A Wind Powered Moose
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 9:21pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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quote BullFish
I thought it was obvious Bruce was actually dead. :/

What are the odds that Bruce and Selina would be in the same seats Alfred saw the not-Bruce in in his story? And auto-pilot fixed or not, he was shown to be in The Bat moments before the nuke went off, which was well AFTER the last chance he had to get out "on top of a building" or something (not sure if it was in this thread, but I am seeing this excuse a lot).

Alfred met Selina once, and that was when he thought she was a maid and told her to deliver food to Bruce. That was the only time they had met. Why would he envision her there?

Movies are tricky. Bruce was also half way around the word right before showing up to meet Selina after she saved that kid from thugs. Time is a very fluid thing in movies. Batman being in the Bat before the bomb went off is true. He didn't survive the explosion. Bruce did though.



Author:   ctrl
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 9:35pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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quote BullFish
I thought it was obvious Bruce was actually dead. :/

What are the odds that Bruce and Selina would be in the same seats Alfred saw the not-Bruce in in his story? And auto-pilot fixed or not, he was shown to be in The Bat moments before the nuke went off, which was well AFTER the last chance he had to get out "on top of a building" or something (not sure if it was in this thread, but I am seeing this excuse a lot).

Yeah, that's not Nolan's style, though. In Inception, he doesn't let the top fall, but in this he will blatantly show Bruce and Selina, and then show Alfred get up from his seat to join them? Commme onnnn. People are looking too much into all this. And honestly I didn't care if we saw Bane to check and make sure he has a giant hole through his body from a shot that decimated the debris in the tunnel, allowing people to flee. It's pretty clear that his body was halved. And given Nolan's standard PG-13 rating, they wouldn't show that. He didn't show the Mayor get blown into pieces of confetti, or the countless necks broken by Bane.





Author:   King
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 9:36pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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quote BullFish
I thought it was obvious Bruce was actually dead. :/

It wasn't obvious and that's a common theme with Nolan's movies their open to interpretation. I took the other side that Alfred did not imagine this scene and it actually happened. One reason was Bruce sort of pointed Blake along the path of Gotham's next protector. I like to believe he would not be that irresponsible to point someone in that direction and then allow himself to die. Blake was not trained by the league of shadows like Bruce so leaving him completely alone means he's going to get hurt. Someone has to train him why not Bruce, just my take though maybe he did die maybe he didn't, theirs no right or wrong answer.



Author:   BullFish
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 9:38pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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I'll concede the point about Alfred never seeing Selina, that does lend some credibility to it being real. I hadn't thought of that.

If it is real, which my head-canon says it is not, then it has left a bad taste in my mouth. It just doesn't seem like a very Batman thing to do.




Author:   Jeterocks
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 9:42pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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The Rock should have played Bane. Would have been much bigger and looked like more of a threat. Rock bottom on batman before breaking his back would have been great too..

quote BullFish
Rocky in Fast Five looked like he would have been a bigger threat.
^This.



Author:   ctrl
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 9:59pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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quote Jeterocks
The Rock should have played Bane. Would have been much bigger and looked like more of a threat. Rock bottom on batman before breaking his back would have been great too..

quote BullFish
Rocky in Fast Five looked like he would have been a bigger threat.
^This.
He was bigger than Batman and that's all that matters. And Bane isn't half-black.





Author:   BullFish
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 10:20pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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Some of the cops that got stuck underground were bigger than Batman. Bane should have been huge. I didn't like it, but I'll let it slide.

I don't think I mentioned in my monster post at the top of the page, at the beginning of the film; when Bane told his mook that someone had to die in the plane crash, and the mook just handed the harness over... hot damn. Chilling. As well as:

"Search him. Then I will kill you."

And the guy does... I'll admit Bane's presence was chilling. The physical character just didn't do it for me.




Author:   ctrl
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 10:38pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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quote BullFish
Some of the cops that got stuck underground were bigger than Batman. Bane should have been huge. I didn't like it, but I'll let it slide.

I don't think I mentioned in my monster post at the top of the page, at the beginning of the film; when Bane told his mook that someone had to die in the plane crash, and the mook just handed the harness over... hot damn. Chilling. As well as:

"Search him. Then I will kill you."

And the guy does... I'll admit Bane's presence was chilling. The physical character just didn't do it for me.

The huge argument is moot because he doesn't have unnatural strength from synthetic chemicals. He's just a badass that is in constant pain and wears the mask to keep him doped up enough to function. But also doped up enough to not feel pain. Which is why he was able to take a beating from Batman so easily and laugh about it. And Tom Hardy is pretty big if you've seen him in anything else.





Author:   BullFish
Date:   Jul 23, 12 at 10:47pm (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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Oh, yeah. Loved him in Bronson and Warrior.

I'm just not sold on the 'realistic' or 'grounded in reality' superhero. It just seems like an oxymoron. Batman Begins was great, because it was Batman. Then TDK turned it into ' a dude that has a Batman suit'. So there was just a part of me that wanted Bane to be the beast he is, or at least was in Knightfall.

Must have been a mistake to read it the day before seeing this.




Author:   Big A2
Date:   Jul 24, 12 at 12:07am (PST)
Subject:   re: The Dark Knight Rises (Post-Release Discussion)
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quote The Stinger
[Complaining about difference to comics and plot holes]
Batman could have set up the auto-pilot, ejected while still above Gotham and sent the Bat flying off without him on it. Whatever, the technicalities of it aren’t important. Are we also going to analyse Selina's goggles and talk about whether she had a decent enough field of vision to drive the Batcycle? Come on.

It's clear that Selina didn't intend for Batman to get crushed so badly, but I do agree that their relationship was very rushed. I guess the idea behind it is that they both want to run away from their lives and start anew, but I agree with the people saying that this movie should have been longer (even though the 165 minutes as it stands is pushing it for 2012), in order to flesh out characters and relationships far better. I don't think it should have been split into two though, that would have ruined it.

Lastly, being completely loyal to the source material is not the way to go for movie adaptions. What works in comic books rarely works as well on screen. Did you also think TDK failed because the Joker didn’t fall into a bucket of toxic waste? Furthermore, if the story of TDKR had been made into a comic book instead of a film, would you have had any issues with it?

Oh, on a side note, Batman getting back into Gotham; I figured he snuck in through one of those trucks that brought food in.


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