Neoseeker.com Forum Thread: Sivir - page 1

reprinted from http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/
original thread: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/45610/t1766765-sivir/


Author:   ShadowCrystallux
Date:   Sep 25, 12 at 11:27pm (PST)
Subject:   Sivir
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[[we.leagueoflegends:Sivir the Battle Mistress]]

I've found that once she's fed, her mid game excels better than most other adcs. Her and soraka bot lane is insane, it just allows sivir to Q off cooldown. Also, she's the best damn counter to caitlyn that I've ever seen. So guys, what do you think of her?



Author:   Grimdark
Date:   Sep 25, 12 at 11:33pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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I'm not really seeing where you got the "best counter to Caitlyn" bit from...



Author:   ShadowCrystallux
Date:   Sep 25, 12 at 11:51pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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quote DC Sniper
I'm not really seeing where you got the "best counter to Caitlyn" bit from...
3 reasons: A), Shield negates trap and gives her free mana restore, B) Q does higher damage to champions if aimed at 1 target than caitlyn's, because it goes through them twice, C) Her movespeed bonuses easily allows her to catch up to caitlyn's base 300. Also, sivir's shield causes caitlyn's ultimate to fail and is easily predictable. Seen it in ranked, so amusing . And the cait was even good :/. Still managed to farm, despite getting hurt by boomerangs every few seconds .



Author:   euben0
Date:   Sep 26, 12 at 1:42am (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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Yordle traps? No, mana pots!



Author:   Grimdark
Date:   Sep 26, 12 at 9:19am (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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quote ShadowCrystallux
quote DC Sniper
I'm not really seeing where you got the "best counter to Caitlyn" bit from...
3 reasons: A), Shield negates trap and gives her free mana restore, B) Q does higher damage to champions if aimed at 1 target than caitlyn's, because it goes through them twice, C) Her movespeed bonuses easily allows her to catch up to caitlyn's base 300. Also, sivir's shield causes caitlyn's ultimate to fail and is easily predictable. Seen it in ranked, so amusing . And the cait was even good :/. Still managed to farm, despite getting hurt by boomerangs every few seconds .
A) Shield lasts 3 seconds and needs to be timed well. B) Q can be dodged C) Caitlin has a slow and escape mechanism, negating Sivir's ult.



Author:   ShadowCrystallux
Date:   Sep 26, 12 at 4:39pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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quote DC Sniper
quote ShadowCrystallux
quote DC Sniper
I'm not really seeing where you got the "best counter to Caitlyn" bit from...
3 reasons: A), Shield negates trap and gives her free mana restore, B) Q does higher damage to champions if aimed at 1 target than caitlyn's, because it goes through them twice, C) Her movespeed bonuses easily allows her to catch up to caitlyn's base 300. Also, sivir's shield causes caitlyn's ultimate to fail and is easily predictable. Seen it in ranked, so amusing . And the cait was even good :/. Still managed to farm, despite getting hurt by boomerangs every few seconds .
A) Shield lasts 3 seconds and needs to be timed well. B) Q can be dodged C) Caitlin has a slow and escape mechanism, negating Sivir's ult.
A) 3 seconds is long enough to take a trap out and caitlyn's ultimate is predictable for the shield. B) Yes, but it's a much faster launch speed than caitlyn's, and is hard to avoid if the sivir has any sense of direction. C) Caitlyn's slow and move away does bugger all when a sivir has Ghost, Passive and Ultimate, especially when the caitlyn is beyond halfway of her turret.



Author:   Grimdark
Date:   Sep 26, 12 at 4:53pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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quote ShadowCrystallux
quote DC Sniper
quote ShadowCrystallux
quote DC Sniper
I'm not really seeing where you got the "best counter to Caitlyn" bit from...
3 reasons: A), Shield negates trap and gives her free mana restore, B) Q does higher damage to champions if aimed at 1 target than caitlyn's, because it goes through them twice, C) Her movespeed bonuses easily allows her to catch up to caitlyn's base 300. Also, sivir's shield causes caitlyn's ultimate to fail and is easily predictable. Seen it in ranked, so amusing . And the cait was even good :/. Still managed to farm, despite getting hurt by boomerangs every few seconds .
A) Shield lasts 3 seconds and needs to be timed well. B) Q can be dodged C) Caitlin has a slow and escape mechanism, negating Sivir's ult.
A) 3 seconds is long enough to take a trap out and caitlyn's ultimate is predictable for the shield. B) Yes, but it's a much faster launch speed than caitlyn's, and is hard to avoid if the sivir has any sense of direction. C) Caitlyn's slow and move away does bugger all when a sivir has Ghost, Passive and Ultimate, especially when the caitlyn is beyond halfway of her turret.
A) Why are we talking
B) Like
C) This



Author:   ShadowCrystallux
Date:   Sep 26, 12 at 6:23pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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quote DC Sniper
A) Why are we talking
B) Like
C) This
Because we were answering to eachother's reasoning. But sivir counters cait and that's final .



Author:   Grimdark
Date:   Sep 26, 12 at 7:32pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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I think it comes down to player skill moreso than the fact that she's a counter.



Author:   ShadowCrystallux
Date:   Sep 26, 12 at 8:19pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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quote DC Sniper
I think it comes down to player skill moreso than the fact that she's a counter.
You play ranked? Have you seen sivir vs cait?



Author:   BluAnimal
Date:   Sep 26, 12 at 8:21pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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I stay away from ADC whenever possible since its just not enjoyable for me. But when I do have to play it Miss Fortune and Sivir are my girls. I just love weaving around the minions as MF and launching random auto attacks. I've yet to play SIvir and Soraka but next time I have the chance I will.



Author:   Etherlight
Date:   Sep 26, 12 at 9:15pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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I wouldn't say Sivir hard counters Caitlyn. Cait can still bait spell shields and Sivir has difficulty beating Cait's poking without her ult. But I wouldn't pick Cait against Sivir since Sivir can handle Cait's laning and reach late-game more easily than other ADCs, which defeats the purpose of picking Cait.

Regardless, you can't really compare ADC match-ups without the support. Sivir can spell shield Cait's stuff, but you have to consider the laning support as well. If you spell shield her traps you're vulnerable to a Taric stun, Blitz grab, Leona stun or even ganks for the duration your shield is down, and good players WILL capitalize on this. If Sivir saves the spell shield for the support (which is probably the best thing to do since supports can lead to some devastating things), then the traps can still zone and the match-up isn't different from any other ADC for Cait.

Going back to simply Sivir, she's really fun. I really hope they give her a slight AA range boost, cause 500 is way too low for an ADC and probably the biggest thing that's setting her back (Graves has a better AA range than her LOL). Still good though, and fun to play.




Author:   dbzmaster
Date:   Sep 27, 12 at 5:04pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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It's kinda pointless to talk about going against AD carries that aren't corki, ezreal, and graves since they're picked around 90+% of games.

Sivir's a safe pick to go against champions like blitz, taric, and nunu, whom are also very popular. You can also shield Ez's W which is the most annoying skill when you're playing an AD.

But, in general she's picked if you want a really strong pusher. Her pushing is one of the best, second to like, Tristana's early game. She can easily take an inhibitor or a couple of turrets if they're unguarded. I've been able to keep my team in lost games because of that.



Author:   Chaosfire
Date:   Sep 27, 12 at 7:06pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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quote ShadowCrystallux
quote DC Sniper
I think it comes down to player skill moreso than the fact that she's a counter.
You play ranked? Have you seen sivir vs cait?
You could request nunu as your support and just auto attack sivir to death.



Author:   Twilight
Date:   Sep 28, 12 at 7:12pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Sivir
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quote DC Sniper
I think it comes down to player skill moreso than the fact that she's a counter.
I don't understand this... Yes, player skill does play a factor in if the champion that would normally counter another is actually a counter. This applies to literally all counterpicks, lol. A poorly played Sivir will obviously not counter a well played Cait. However, saying that a counterpick in no way affects how champions stack up against each other is a tad arrogant (Or ignorant depending on your knowledge of the game because I do believe you are a new-ish player, apologizes if I'm remembering incorrectly.) If the Sivir and Cait are around the same elo (Thus their skill in the game) then it's fairly accurate to say a Sivir would win against a Cait in lane because Sivir's kit counters Cait's, thus being a counterpick.

While we are at it, Sivir is also good at "countering" support Nunu, which was also mentioned. His harass (Snowball) is easily predictable and slow moving. If you have say a support Blitz, then you can easily interrupt his ult also, making him virtually useless.

All this being said, Sivir needs a remake, both graphically and playstyle wise because she just isn't on par with the current adc's. Specifically an ult change would dramatically increase her viability.



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