Neoseeker.com Forum Thread: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn - page 7

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Author:   A Wind Powered Moose
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 12:50pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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quote Marc
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU STATE OPINIONS AS FACT.
quote Marc
Valve is obviously going to add the rest of the characters, clean up player portraits, and add a tutorial who knows what else in the end.
Herp.



Listen, I honestly have no investment in this argument either way, I acknowledge that DotA is the more complex game with a more interesting meta, but I'm too casual to get into it. I was ass at HoN, which was the first MOBA, if you want to call them that, that I played.

But attacking fans on their own board is stupid. By insulting a person's choice as to what game they play, you aren't going to change their mind or sway their opinion to yours. Just sayin', bub.



Author:   MegaBassMan
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 12:56pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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Listen to Prof. Layton. He's too smart to ever be wrong.



Author:   Etherlight
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 1:40pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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I'm still not sure what the pay2win features are in LoL, primarily because there isn't any. lol.



Author:   RazeHell
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 1:42pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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Okay that post just raised a question.

Marc
Why are you even in the LoL forums?
Is it just to troll the regulars?
Or maybe because you're lonely because the DoTA forum is virtually nonexistent?

At any rate, you're coming to a forum in which every member has a different opinion than you, and you're taking every opportunity to insult them and criticize their opinions, which by all accounts, is not okay.

If you really have such preference for DoTA, please do us all a favor and go to the actual forum. I even added the link for you, so you don't get lost at some other LoL forum.
Once you're there, you can revel with all of your elitist brethren and laugh at us neanderthals, who are obviously so dense that we can't see the light of your wisdom.



Author:   Marc
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 1:45pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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quote A Wind Powered Moose
quote Marc
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU STATE OPINIONS AS FACT.
quote Marc
Valve is obviously going to add the rest of the characters, clean up player portraits, and add a tutorial who knows what else in the end.
Herp.
Valve said they will release the game when they finish the other 18 characters. There is also a tutorial button in the main menu but it is not activated. I will be a very unhappy camper if the textures are not rendered in the portraits either but that is promised as well. See, facts.

I'm not attacking anybody, I just don't want somebody barging in on an argument addressing me and then just bringing up already discussed points. Especially saying something blatantly biased and not true with 0 evidence to back it up.

quote RazeHell
DoTA is bad and just stubbornly difficult.
quote RazeHell
Yes, you should at least put some effort into not making your game look like a pile of shit.
quote RazeHell
Not to mention the fact that every single character is bland and unmemorable.
Edit:
RazeHell
I'm actually not here to troll. In fact I thought we were having an educational discussion before you barged in. Please do not be butthurt when address all your biased statements with actual evidence.

But yes I am shocked an appalled the dota 2 forum is dead, so just stop quoting me if you don't want me back.

But again, my original question:
quote Marc
So when are we all making the pilgrimage to DOTA 2 people?





Author:   Inuyasha
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 1:59pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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Doesn't sound Marc like you are informed enough about LoL to debate it's negatives, and I stopped debating with you because similarly know very little about DoTA2.

You don't buy summoner spells. They are all unlocked by level 12. There is not a pay2win strategy. You buy champions, champion skins, Experience and Point bonuses, and Rune Pages. None of these give you a bonus in-game, besides being able to play multiple champions if you want to pay the extra money to unlock them all (it is still a business for Riot after all, I don't see that as an unfair advantage, though). While some people have more runes than you do, they play a very small part in the game, and until you are level 30 you will be playing with people who have unlocked very few runes such as yourself. Even if you don't want to pay any money into this game, which in all honesty, shame on you, you can get point bonuses from the Tribunal, which is an amazing addition to the game Riot has implemented. Money gives you very little edge, and the little edge it gives the people deserve, because this game is good enough to cost money to play.


quote Marc
Heroes change constantly
The changes are very little, besides total remakes that happen for few champions, the last one being Katarina, who was originally released in the beta almost 3 years ago. The fact is, Riot isn't perfect, and neither is Valve. With each champion added Riot needs to look into the older ones to see what they are lacking. Yes, we are expecting some changes for old champions, or some nerfs to new champions, but I'd prefer constant changes over no changes at all. Yeah, releasing champions every couple of weeks is hard to balance because you can't get your whole player base to test it out, thankfully, they have modes where you can ban champions that you define as OP or Imba. I reiterate, no one is perfect, and Riot has taken steps and does there best to balance new champions upon release.

Like Raze said, you came to the League Forum to debate, and you should've expected to be swarmed by its players. Us League players clearly do not have as much knowledge in DoTA as you, and vice versa.

My original answer: When DOTA gets a bigger player base, competitive base, larger prize pool, better community, and when it is overall more fun than League D=

Edit: Your stubbornness (and I commend it, because its required to debate a shitton of people) has made me eager to play some DoTA2. I promise to give it an unbiased and fair chance, and I will report my findings maybe tomorrow, maybe Wednesday, whenever I get enough time away from LoL and other commitments to play it.



On another note, did anyone watch the MLG Finals, and the...eventful game that occurred? I feel it was Curse giving a big "*bleep* you" to MLG, and I hope it isn't repeated, especially with the aftermath that occurred.




Author:   Marc
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 2:06pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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quote Inuyasha
There is not a pay2win strategy. You buy champions, champion skins, Experience and Point bonuses, and Rune Pages. None of these give you a bonus in-game
Yes but all of those things except champion skins affect your playing. Not having all the characters available to you is a clear disadvantage because you can't counter pick all the time. I do admit I dpn't know much about runes or point bonuses or whatever but I can tell that buying slots that give you 15% speed or whatever changes the game drastically and it sucks to have to buy them to compete.

Personally the biggest thing is not being able to play all 103 of the characters. Opinion. But if I can't counter pick it debates the balance of the game.

quote Inuyasha
The fact is, Riot isn't perfect, and neither is Valve
Valve didn't make DOTA. DOTA is a beast that was sculptued by a large WC3 modding community that made changes constantly over the course of 7 years. You didn't have the input of 1 single company but literally EVERYBODY was making changes and the game was never balanced in the early stages. NEVER! It just kept morphing into something completely different everytime a new mod came out. It was like the wild west of MOBA. Imagine having 1 guy that had no income sitting in his moms basement working on a game that 2 million people played and then another group started whining and made their own changes and realeased dota 1.0.1, then somebody else 1.0.2 then Icefrog coming back and making 1.0.3., etc,etc,etc. It sucked. But eventually it turned into something great and something where the whole DOTA community was happy.

Here we are 7 years later and Valve has the grasp on recipe that took so long to make. We have yet to see where they go with it as far as making new characters. But so far, I think they are doing fine.

Edit:
If you're serious about playing DOTA we can play a match and show you some tips and heroes and stuff to get the full experiance.
Add me, Steamid:Collieman94



Author:   Etherlight
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 3:06pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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quote Marc
quote Inuyasha
There is not a pay2win strategy. You buy champions, champion skins, Experience and Point bonuses, and Rune Pages. None of these give you a bonus in-game
Yes but all of those things except champion skins affect your playing. Not having all the characters available to you is a clear disadvantage because you can't counter pick all the time. I do admit I dpn't know much about runes or point bonuses or whatever but I can tell that buying slots that give you 15% speed or whatever changes the game drastically and it sucks to have to buy them to compete.
I don't think you understand what the term pay2win is. Paying to win is using money to gain an advantage available only if you pay money for it. This isn't Rakion where stat boosts, certain weapons and equipment, summons and among other things were only available to payers. Nothing here that affects game play is inaccessible to the player who doesn't pay money. None of the runes, masteries, summoner spells or rune pages are exclusive to payers.

Also, it's not a advantage to pay money to buy certain champs because you don't need to play a certain champion to understand how they work, even more so with previews, guides and playing against other people who actually have those champions. Even then, all champions, even new ones, are available on release if you have the IP to buy them. There's even a free week rotation that gives you a chance to try out champions.

So no, there is no pay2win feature in this game. Nothing in this game gives you an exclusive advantage by paying, and everything that you can buy with RP (except for skins, which are purely cosmetic) can be bought with IP.




Author:   Marc
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 3:12pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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quote Etherlight
quote Marc
quote Inuyasha
There is not a pay2win strategy. You buy champions, champion skins, Experience and Point bonuses, and Rune Pages. None of these give you a bonus in-game
Yes but all of those things except champion skins affect your playing. Not having all the characters available to you is a clear disadvantage because you can't counter pick all the time. I do admit I dpn't know much about runes or point bonuses or whatever but I can tell that buying slots that give you 15% speed or whatever changes the game drastically and it sucks to have to buy them to compete.
I don't think you understand what the term pay2win is. Paying to win is using money to gain an advantage available only if you pay money for it. This isn't Rakion where stat boosts, certain weapons and equipment, summons and among other things were only available to payers. Nothing here that affects game play is inaccessible to the player who doesn't pay money. None of the runes, masteries, summoner spells or rune pages are exclusive to payers.

Also, it's not a disadvantage to not pay money because you don't need to play a certain champion to understand how they work, even more so with previews, guides and playing against other people who actually have those champions. Even then, all champions, even new ones, are available on release if you have the IP to buy them. There's even a free week rotation that gives you a chance to try out champions.

So no, there is no pay2win feature in this game. Nothing in this game gives you an exclusive advantage by paying, and everything that you can buy with RP (except for skins, which are purely cosmetic) can be bought with IP.

Young Johnny wants to play with the pros. Johnny steals his moms credit card and buys every character and rune mastery, spell, bonus, what have you. Now Johnny is able to go up against every rational person who doesn't pay for these things and have the upper hand because he has these accessorys and can laugh at all the lowly free weekly players. He can also counter pick the other team because he has access to all the heroes where as people only have a handful plus the weeklys.



Author:   Etherlight
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 3:16pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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You clearly haven't read my post. Try again.



Author:   BluAnimal
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 3:18pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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quote Marc
quote Etherlight
quote Marc
quote Inuyasha
There is not a pay2win strategy. You buy champions, champion skins, Experience and Point bonuses, and Rune Pages. None of these give you a bonus in-game
Yes but all of those things except champion skins affect your playing. Not having all the characters available to you is a clear disadvantage because you can't counter pick all the time. I do admit I dpn't know much about runes or point bonuses or whatever but I can tell that buying slots that give you 15% speed or whatever changes the game drastically and it sucks to have to buy them to compete.
I don't think you understand what the term pay2win is. Paying to win is using money to gain an advantage available only if you pay money for it. This isn't Rakion where stat boosts, certain weapons and equipment, summons and among other things were only available to payers. Nothing here that affects game play is inaccessible to the player who doesn't pay money. None of the runes, masteries, summoner spells or rune pages are exclusive to payers.

Also, it's not a disadvantage to not pay money because you don't need to play a certain champion to understand how they work, even more so with previews, guides and playing against other people who actually have those champions. Even then, all champions, even new ones, are available on release if you have the IP to buy them. There's even a free week rotation that gives you a chance to try out champions.

So no, there is no pay2win feature in this game. Nothing in this game gives you an exclusive advantage by paying, and everything that you can buy with RP (except for skins, which are purely cosmetic) can be bought with IP.

Young Johnny wants to play with the pros. Johnny steals his moms credit card and buys every character and rune mastery, spell, bonus, what have you. Now Johnny is able to go up against every rational person who doesn't pay for these things and have the upper hand because he has these accessorys and can laugh at all the lowly free weekly players. He can also counter pick the other team because he has access to all the heroes where as people only have a handful plus the weeklys.
That's his mom's problem, not ours.

Also you haven't played LoL have you? You cannot buy spells or "bonuses" (unless you mean IP/XP boosts which the only thing they do is give you more exp. per win which is only helpful for the first 30 levels, afterwards, where most players are, experience is meaningless) The only time I've ever bought something in League of Legends is skins which in no way enhance my gameplay besides looking sexy.

Pay2win would be a game where you could buy weapons or abilities. Navyfield comes to mind (if anyone has even heard of it...) where you can buy "boosts" to make your gunnery ability on your battleship higher raising your accuracy. Now that's pay2win.

In no way does having money make your gameplay experience have an advantage over someone who has played and purchased every champion/rune page/rune with IP.



Author:   Marc
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 3:22pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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I've experienced this. As a number crunching DOTA player, the rune and mastery system annoyed the shit out of me. Why do people who play more get to have these huge bonuses that aren't available to me as a new to player? Gee, This blows so much I might as well buy these features to get the leg up or be able to play with the highest level players.

Edit: Sorry, I think i forgot you can't buy runes but you can buy xp boosters that give you more xp per match, correct?

I do play LoL i just never payed attention to the bullshit cash shop.



Author:   BluAnimal
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 3:26pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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If you're just starting out then you won't be facing these higher level players. Hell most people don't even know Runes/Masteries exist for the first 10 levels. Also masteries are free and runes can be bought with only IP (earned by playing) so the only advantage someone may have on you at an early level is their champions they own and their rune pages. (Rune pages would be useless at early level too, anyways).

Edit: Yes you can buy experience boosts. I never saw the point in them though, I wouldn't want to level up faster. That would just mean I would be against people of the same level but probably have more games under their belt than me. The only thing I could every agree with is IP boosts.



Author:   Marc
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 3:31pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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Sorry, do Xp boosters in turn reward you with IP?



Author:   MegaBassMan
Date:   Aug 27, 12 at 3:31pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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quote Etherlight
I'm still not sure what the pay2win features are in LoL, primarily because there isn't any. lol.
The more skins on your team, the more likely you are to win, obviously.


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