Neoseeker.com Forum Thread: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn - page 5

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Author:   Marc
Date:   Aug 24, 12 at 3:31pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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quote Inuyasha
I'd like to see real evidence showing the Beta has just as many players as LoL, and even so, I wouldn't be surprised, everyone signs up for DoTA, then realizes League outclasses it.

Yeah it is an extremely competitive community, and also a bunch of assholes. Crumbz, Scarra, Ocelote, and Nyjacky have all claimed that the League community is Leagues better (puns ftw) than DoTA's.

Only 1 Million? The rumored prize pool for S3 of League is $25 Million, and while that hasn't been confirmed, the Lead Designer has stated that the prize pool will be larger than S2's $5 Million.

Having played DoTA, though not even touching DoTA2 Beta, I can say that the learning curve is overwhelming and just unreasonable. That's why League has taken the spot for best MOBA, and will not be relinquishing its title in the near future.

Rumored prize? That doesn't count, they are cleary just stirring the pot trying to compensate for the huge Dota 2 release tourney that is making Riot shit their pants. Valve's International DOTA tournament has been very impressive so far. Riot can talk up a storm all they want,

Unreasonable? While just being to overwhelming for you personally, doesn't mean people who dedicate their time to learning the game are not hugely rewarded. How can a game be less competitive but have the larger learning curve?

Once DOTA 2 comes out and everything is completely balanced. (free to pick all heroes, no runes, etc) and has an awesome company like Valve supporting it through a little universal PC platform called Steam, there will be no reason not to be playing it. Everybody who has steam will be downloading it as soon as it releases. DOTA is the king of the MOBA genre, there is no reason a Valve produced DOTA 2 wont exceed that standard.

As for DOTA 1's community, I do partly agree with you because we have a large foreign player base, but the community is going to completely morph when the game comes out and the amount of new players will be greater than the amount of old players. DOTA 2 has yet to have a community seeing as the game has not been available to everybody.

This message was edited on 2012-08-24T16:43:03-07:00.



Author:   Inuyasha
Date:   Aug 24, 12 at 4:41pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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Did you fail to read the rest of my comment? While I said it was rumored, it was stated by a Riot Em-ploy-ee that the pool is going to be larger than it was this Season. Not only that, but Morello claimed that Riot is going to implement "salary play" for the competitive teams, which is going to completely revolutionize Competitive Gaming, with Riot leading the charge. More on that here: Morello Interview

Overwhelming for me personally, yes, but since top players in League have came from DotA, League obviously has something DotA doesn't, and while it's surprisingly simplistic to grasp, in-depth strategies are still sprouting in every tournament that is played. You may be able to pick up League faster, but that just gives players more time to develop their own compilations and tactics. Checking around forums, DotA players are already falling out of the Beta, which is quite amusing. Sure they will get a large player-base early, but the mechanics are quite off-putting, even to the most experienced of players.

Valve is a great company, however Riot has shown how dedicated they are to their player base and the competitive scene, and with Riot's expertise and experience, I do not believe Valve will beat that.


quote Marc
DOTA is the king of the MOBA genre
No, it was. To say it still is would be ignorant, and while it will be the closest thing to contest League's Top position, only time will tell if it will.

quote Marc
As for DOTA 1's community, I do partly agree with you because we have a large foreign player base

Foreigners = Bad Community? Might want to clarify.




Author:   Marc
Date:   Aug 24, 12 at 4:51pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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Inuyasha

I want to see these statistics on Dota 2 players leaving. Because I only see a very large spike in players from month to month. Often times I see 5,000-10,000 more players on average playing the longer the beta is out.

quote Inuyasha
No, it was. To say it still is would be ignorant, and while it will be the closest thing to contest League's Top position, only time will tell if it will.
I absolutely 100% guarantee you that once the game releases there will be more people playing DOTA than LoL. You're comparing a fully released game to a game in Beta.

quote Inuyasha
Foreigners = Bad Community? Might want to clarify.
Assuming Im rascist, eh? There is such a thing called language barriers.

Valve's 1Mill is just for 1 tournament. Splitting 5Mill among 5345345 tournaments and calling it "season two" like it's a *bleep*ing TV Show isn't the same as 1Mill for 1 tournament. Its like Valve offers everybody a nice steak and Riot gets all intimidated and tries to shove a cow in everybody's face.

Those handful of people leaving on the forums are probably just not up for the challenge Dota ensures. Which I'm 100% okay with because this game is not as pick up and play as LoL is, people can't handle that.



Author:   Inuyasha
Date:   Aug 24, 12 at 5:05pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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I asked you first for numbers, which I've yet to see.

quote Marc
I absolutely 100% guarantee you that once the game releases there will be more people playing DOTA than LoL. You're comparing a fully released game to a game in Beta.
K

quote Marc
Assuming Im rascist, eh? There is such a thing called language barriers.
Not assuming anything. I asked you to clarify, you did. Gold star for you!

quote Marc
Valve's 1Mill is just for 1 tournament. Splitting 5Mill among 5345345 tournaments and calling it "season two" like it's a *bleep*ing TV Show isn't the same as 1Mill for 1 tournament. Its like Valve offers everybody a nice steak and Riot gets all intimidated and tries to shove a cow in everybody's face.
You're assuming that Valve is going to have- what was it, oh that's right - 5345345 tournaments also, even though I doubt they have said much beyond their first tournament. Also, many of the tournaments have not been funded by Riot, though they may have featured them or helped them along for better publicity. Valve better be up to the challenge of hosting and entertaining all these events, even with so many other games and distractions they have to attend to.

quote Marc
Those handful of people leaving on the forums are probably just not up for the challenge Dota ensures.

Make a game that is off-putting to a player base. Seems legit. Why slave away studying a game when you could play a better one. You may have your stubborn players from the original, but the open-minded players will have come to the realization that League is supreme.



Author:   Marc
Date:   Aug 24, 12 at 5:59pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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quote Inuyasha
You're assuming that Valve is going to have- what was it, oh that's right - 5345345 tournaments also, even though I doubt they have said much beyond their first tournament. Also, many of the tournaments have not been funded by Riot, though they may have featured them or helped them along for better publicity. Valve better be up to the challenge of hosting and entertaining all these events, even with so many other games and distractions they have to attend to.
Wut.... Dude your missing the point that Riot just said the words "5 million dollars" to please LoL fanboys. 5 million dollars are going to go into like 50000 jillion tournaments over the course of a "season". You really think the E-sport of DOTA is not going to have tournaments after this one, it's just the beginning. Why would a company like Valve who is sitting on a pile of cash and about to make bank off of this game not host mor.e tournaments? And again: Steak, Cow.

Valve hired Icefrog to work for the DOTA team, they have plenty of people and they have plenty of money to hire the best devs to work on this game, don't assume Valve is one brain working on one thing all the time.

quote Inuyasha
Make a game that is off-putting to a player base. Seems legit. Why slave away studying a game when you could play a better one. You may have your stubborn players from the original, but the open-minded players will have come to the realization that League is supreme.
I've never seen anybody defend a game by saying its more casual and less stressful than another game. Slave away studying? I'm beginning to think you've never played even played DOTA. For christ sake the game is not even that hard. The fun of DOTA is that you always continue to learn and improve which makes it more rewarding than challenging. Its more "hardcore" because there is plenty more builds to play and it promotes team work and is more fast paced than LoL, just to name a few. Its not Organic chemistry and astro physics, its a fun as hell game even for people just beginning to play.



Author:   Inuyasha
Date:   Aug 24, 12 at 6:23pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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They said the words "5 Million Dollars" to get people excited and try and establish how big that is for E-Gaming. It is big, and it's getting bigger, as I have already stated.

Riot has also hired great players to help with balance patches and establish a more fair game. The only difference is at the end of the day, Riot has one great game, while Valve has many to focus on. Valve does have many great games, but Riot's is the best.


quote Marc
5 million dollars are going to go into like 50000 jillion tournaments
Stop re-iterating a failed point, I've already addressed this.

quote Marc
For christ sake the game is not even that hard.
Part of your whole argument has revolved around how much time and dedication it takes to learn the game. Don't switch your opinions halfway through.

Also, since you have also failed to give me statistics, I've found them myself. Compare the overview on League of Legends to DoTa The fact you said they were even, is laughable.


quote Marc
promotes team work
Multiplayer Online Battle Arena, of course it promotes teamwork, so does League.



Author:   Marc
Date:   Aug 24, 12 at 6:59pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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quote Inuyasha
They said the words "5 Million Dollars" to get people excited and try and establish how big that is for E-Gaming. It is big, and it's getting bigger, as I have already stated.

Riot has also hired great players to help with balance patches and establish a more fair game. The only difference is at the end of the day, Riot has one great game, while Valve has many to focus on. Valve does have many great games, but Riot's is the best.


quote Marc
5 million dollars are going to go into like 50000 jillion tournaments
Stop re-iterating a failed point, I've already addressed this.

quote Marc
For christ sake the game is not even that hard.
Part of your whole argument has revolved around how much time and dedication it takes to learn the game. Don't switch your opinions halfway through.

Also, since you have also failed to give me statistics, I've found them myself. Compare the overview on League of Legends to DoTa The fact you said they were even, is laughable.


quote Marc
promotes team work
Multiplayer Online Battle Arena, of course it promotes teamwork, so does League.
You didn't address shit. You just made it even a more of a mystery about "seasons" and other nonsense. But in reality Riot has never even backed up what they were saying and are HUGELY compensating because they are intimidated by DoTA tourneys.

Xfire source? Dude I see 28,000 online right this second. Its the second most played game on steam. I use the term "game" loosely because its in beta. Please use a valid source.

I'm not switching my opinion, dafuq? I said it had a higher skill ceiling, more room to expand. Its still a game its not a university class if you have played it you would know this.

It promotes teamwork mores so than league. There are dozens of active items and counter picks that can be used to expand team plays I don't want to go into all of this with you, just wait for it to come out and play it for yourself. Hell go watch the Internationals next week.



Author:   Inuyasha
Date:   Aug 24, 12 at 7:06pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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Okay, and if you could find me something that shows a more clear comparison, have at it, but you have shit, and this clearly shows, even on a minimal scale, how much more popular League is right now to DotA2, so the fact that you had the resolve to say the player base was the same had been based off of your own delusions.

Besides the statistics, all you're doing is repeating yourself, and I have nothing else to say in points towards why League is better. Praps in a year we can get together and do this nice bit again, but until then, we don't know who's going to end up on top.

One thing we can agree on (based off of your signature) is that Sublime is a great band that ended too soon.




Author:   Marc
Date:   Aug 24, 12 at 7:25pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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Inuyasha Here ya go.

We shall see bro. Until then go enjoy League and I will go enjoy DOTA. Lets take pride in the fact that both of these MOBA games are getting E-sport recognition with these tourneys.

We can Definitely agree on music if that's the only thing. RIP Brad.



Author:   Lorx
Date:   Aug 24, 12 at 7:58pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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DotA2 and LoL pander to completely different sets of people. If any two MOBAs were to co-exist, it would be those two.

Also, for the record Marc, this is the data from your link on how many people play DotA:
quote
Current: 36,820
Peak Today: 73,540
LoL was peaking at 500,000 last year. I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers on DotA2 having just as many players as LoL, but your source was wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I really hope DotA2 succeeds, it is not my cup of tea from what I've experienced in the beta, but it is a good game.



Author:   Fluroclad
Date:   Aug 25, 12 at 2:29am (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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Guinsoo moved to Riot Games.

'nuff said



Author:   the_FAMAS_pro
Date:   Aug 25, 12 at 3:43am (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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quote Fluroclad
Guinsoo moved to Riot Games.

'nuff said
Really? I coulda sworn i saw a Guinsoo item in DoTA a while back...but i thought well, he was working with both.



Author:   Chaosfire
Date:   Aug 25, 12 at 4:50pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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quote the_FAMAS_pro
quote Fluroclad
Guinsoo moved to Riot Games.

'nuff said
Really? I coulda sworn i saw a Guinsoo item in DoTA a while back...but i thought well, he was working with both.
Guinsoo
He moved from DOTA to League, yes. Incidentally, there's an Item titled "Guinsoo's Rageblade" in league.


I'm not trying to flame or beat a dead horse here but....


quote Marc
I absolutely 100% guarantee you that once the game releases there will be more people playing DOTA than LoL. You're comparing a fully released game to a game in Beta.
While League is no longer in it's beta, It's updated bi-monthly with balancing concepts and additional content such as items, vanity "skins" for your favored champions, champions, and more. I understand that DOTA2 updates just as often, but both games are growing.


quote Marc
Those handful of people leaving on the forums are probably just not up for the challenge Dota ensures. Which I'm 100% okay with because this game is not as pick up and play as LoL is, people can't handle that.
I can't really speak for the entirety of DOTA2 but I feel that early level DOTA play is who can pick the most overpowered snowball hero, and there's nothing that will ever change about that because there hasn't been shit done in the gameplay balancing department. Of course, this doesn't matter at all in high level play, but low level play feels extremely toxic to me. I'm not complaining, I've tried DOTA2, and I much prefer League, because in my opinion, DOTA2 is antifun. That's that. it's an opinion.

quote Marc
ts more "hardcore" because there is plenty more builds to play and it promotes team work and is more fast paced than LoL
League is more "hardcore" because there are plently more builds to play, and it promotes team work and is more fast paced than DOTA2. See how that works? Right now you're comparing soup to stew. Almost every single LoL champion can have multiple playstyles, items, and buildpaths. Some may not be the most viable, but neither is all agility morphling.

About the money topic, Most tournaments are funded and sponsored by third parties, not just riot. That's that.



quote Marc
It promotes teamwork mores so than league
Once again, Champions in LoL aren't quite as... Strong as in DOTA. There isn't a single instance where a champion from LoL could 1v5 on even grounds with the enemy team. Note the keyword, even grounds. I've gotten a 4 kills by diving into the enemy team as Sand King. 1v4. I wasn't ahead, I had a *bleep*ing blink dagger and some tango. Lets compare this to a similar champion in League, Fiddlesticks. The similarity in question is their ultimate ability, they channel, then leap and deal massive area of effect damage for a period. If I were to dive into the enemy team 1v4 without a defensive item such as the Zhonya's Hourglass, I would be killed within 3 seconds. What I'm getting at here is LoL is much more reliant on other people for making big plays. Once again, both games have variables. This is a generalization.


quote Inuyasha
One thing we can agree on (based off of your signature) is that Sublime is a great band that ended too soon.
Sublime is a great band.


I'm not trying to reignite the dead fire, I'm just stating my thoughts.



Author:   ShadowCrystallux
Date:   Aug 26, 12 at 1:57am (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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Never played DotA, so can't really comment on it. But what I will say is that I've gotten about 10 of my friends to start playing LoL, one of my friends got me into it, and one of his friends got him into it, etc. LoL in australia is growing rapidly, I was once one of 3 people in australia who played LoL that I knew of, now I have about 20 ish people who play it from australia. And more I've been trying to convince. From the sounds of things DotA's days are over as top dog, and LoL has completely overtaken it.

*side note*, not arguing anything, I just love this game .



Author:   BluAnimal
Date:   Aug 26, 12 at 6:49am (PST)
Subject:   re: Off-topic GD II - Nobody has a cool a hat as Caitlyn
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So I finally bought Cassiopeia and my first game I laned against a Malzahar, did pretty good for the match up, ended 5/7 because of a fed bot lane. Next game I went 3/4, lost because of a DC. Finally third game I went 11/4 and scored my first pentakill ever! And then won that. Then 4th game was with another 4 friends and I wrecked a Katarina mid.

So far I really like her. Definitely the skill cap I was looking for. I have a feeling she's going to be very deadly in my hands within a month.


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