Neoseeker.com Forum Thread: Akali - page 2

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original thread: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/45610/t1741172-akali/2.htm


Author:   Fluroclad
Date:   Jul 07, 12 at 9:53am (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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Cresant Slash proc on the Mark is not that significant to be honest. Your Q still resets the auto attack and when you Shadow Dance to an enemy Akali automatically auto attacks them straight after so it isn't as powerful as it may seem. Although it does have it's uses if you run out of Shadow Dance etc...



Author:   ShadowCrystallux
Date:   Jul 07, 12 at 10:56am (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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The E proc mark is handy when a minion is between you and the enemy and you need to trigger it. But it really isn't that significant. Other than the energy cost reduction on her E, the buff was seemingly just fine-tuning.



Author:   Archangel
Date:   Jul 11, 12 at 8:39am (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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quote Fluroclad
when you Shadow Dance to an enemy Akali automatically auto attacks them straight after so it isn't as powerful as it may seem.
*Supposed to. It doesn't always happen.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I have to admit that I completely misunderstood the changes to her, and after realizing what it is that actually happened, must say that it isn't nearly as good as I originally thought. Although she is essentially dealing an extra 130 (+0.6 per attack damage) (+0.3 per ability power) at max E and receiving 35 energy back at a cost of 40 energy. Still a decent buff in my opinion, but nowhere near what I thought at first. -_-



Author:   Lorx
Date:   Jul 11, 12 at 8:48am (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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Seems to be pretty much exactly how I thought after playing a couple games. I'll use E now, but it's mostly just for catching people who didn't get the auto-AA proc after an ult, since it has a decent range on it. Cost scaling is nice though, makes it definitely a second max (lv13) unless you're flatlining in lane and need that stealth badly.



Author:   ShadowCrystallux
Date:   Jul 12, 12 at 5:56am (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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I only ever take level 2 Twilight shroud before level 14 if they're owning my lane, otherwise, Crescent Slash is definitely level 13 maxed.



Author:   Lorx
Date:   Jul 16, 12 at 7:01pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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So I just had some fun as Jungkali!

Build:
Items: Vamp>Boots>Revolver>Merc Treads>Gunblade>Rylai>Sheen>Triforce
Abilities: EQEWER EQEQR QQWWR WW
Start Path: dog>blue>rad4>dog B

Felt like I was really squishy for jungling at first, since in order to hit up Akali's passive without items you basically need 21 in Offense, but once E was leveled up to three or so, started getting ridiculous clear times, coupled with the Revolver made me basically never lose HP. Before that though, very low sustain, had to B more than I'd like.



Author:   ShadowCrystallux
Date:   Jul 17, 12 at 3:50am (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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Lorx Jungling with Akali would be fun, if you get it off the bat. Only problem is, her only crowd control effect is twilight shroud, which isn't exactly difficult to avoid. Did you take Q or E first? I'm gathering that you took E, because you mentioned taking lifesteal first, and as far as I'm aware, E works off of both lifesteal and spell vamp.



Author:   Lorx
Date:   Jul 17, 12 at 5:05am (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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quote Phoenixmon
Lorx Jungling with Akali would be fun, if you get it off the bat. Only problem is, her only crowd control effect is twilight shroud, which isn't exactly difficult to avoid. Did you take Q or E first? I'm gathering that you took E, because you mentioned taking lifesteal first, and as far as I'm aware, E works off of both lifesteal and spell vamp.
Lifesteal only applies to abilities that proc on-hit effects if I recall correctly, Spell Vamp procs off both AD and AP scaling skills that don't fall under that category.

E first, definitely E.



Author:   ShadowCrystallux
Date:   Jul 17, 12 at 5:19am (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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Wait, so spells that deal physical damage don't scale off of both?



Author:   Tashur Astur
Date:   Jul 17, 12 at 7:08am (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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E only heals you with spellvamp, not lifesteal. for some reason Lich bane proc also does not count as lifesteal, although I don't quite understand why.

One thing you guys really seem to have missed about the significance of crescent slash triggering the mark of the assassin is the fact that ability damage does not call for minion aggro, only autoattacks do. What this means is you can harrass an opponent highly efficiently in lane with Q-E and if they hit you back they will draw creep aggression which is very significant early on.



Author:   Lorx
Date:   Jul 17, 12 at 11:59am (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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quote Tashur Astur
E only heals you with spellvamp, not lifesteal. for some reason Lich bane proc also does not count as lifesteal, although I don't quite understand why.

One thing you guys really seem to have missed about the significance of crescent slash triggering the mark of the assassin is the fact that ability damage does not call for minion aggro, only autoattacks do. What this means is you can harrass an opponent highly efficiently in lane with Q-E and if they hit you back they will draw creep aggression which is very significant early on.
Item abilities also hit Spellvamp I believe, if I'm remembering this right all kinds of abilities are Spell Vamp except on hit procs, so Ezreal Q type stuff.



Author:   Tashur Astur
Date:   Jul 17, 12 at 12:18pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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Item abilities are not but summoner spells are, IE ignite/smite do heal you if you have spellvamp. While I'm not 100% certain, I think it's safe to say that item actives do not add spellvamp since Lich bane does not add lifesteal either, it would make sense since an item such as deathfire grasp can quite easily get to the point where it can deal 1500+ damage singletarget.



Author:   Lorx
Date:   Jul 17, 12 at 6:30pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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quote Tashur Astur
Item abilities are not but summoner spells are, IE ignite/smite do heal you if you have spellvamp. While I'm not 100% certain, I think it's safe to say that item actives do not add spellvamp since Lich bane does not add lifesteal either, it would make sense since an item such as deathfire grasp can quite easily get to the point where it can deal 1500+ damage singletarget.
Checked the all powerful wiki, everything hits spell vamp. Summoner Spells, Item Activates, AD Scaling Abilities, True Damage Abilities, all of it. However there is a list of exceptions, which are mostly on-hit procs (which is what Lichbane is).

Rules on Spellvamp:
  1. On-hit procs count as physical attacks, and will react to Lifesteal. Which is what Parley, Mystic Shot, and Siphoning Strike are. However on-hit procs that do magic damage or true damage will only lifesteal the physical amount of the damage. So for instance, Toxic Shot will lifesteal the AA damage you did, but not anything from poison damage or the on-hit damage, since those are both magic damage. Nothing replenishes HP for on-hit procs that do Magic or True damage.
  2. AoE's will have a reduced 33% spellvamp efficiency.
  3. Multi-target abilities that are not AoE are chosen on a case-by-case basis for if they count as AoE. Foxfire is not, Hextech Microrockets is.
  4. Single Target abilities with splash will have full Spellvamp for the target, and the 33% efficiency for splashed enemies.
There is a giant giant list of what abilities proc what in regards to Spellvamp and Lifesteal here. At the bottom it lists items that are on-hit procs and do not trigger spellvamp, which is where Lichbane is listed.



Author:   Tashur Astur
Date:   Jul 18, 12 at 4:58am (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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Ok interesting, I did not know that. I would think I had noticed over the time I played with so many activatables but apparantly I am to attention lacking. To not be too far off topic, Akali is cool.



Author:   ShadowCrystallux
Date:   Jul 18, 12 at 5:10am (PST)
Subject:   re: Akali
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Nice find Lorx, interesting mechanics read .


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