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Author:   midterm360
Date:   Apr 29, 08 at 12:38am (PST)
Subject:   warhammer 40K vs star wars
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I've seen this topic in a few other forums and would like to see this sites viewers comments, please do not spam me, or call em a noob for going off topic, this is entirely for fun

The setting is quite simple, the imperium of man in a war against the galactic empire from star wars, both have no enemies anymoe and are free to concentrate fully 100% of their efforts towards eachother, in the ensuing battle, who wins?

well infe i'llguess i'll have to double post and get the ball rolling, I think it'd be the imperium of man personally, they have the space marines (astartes) and psykers and the like

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Author:   Godsofchaos
Date:   May 29, 08 at 7:18pm (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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"who wins?"midterm360

The GOD Emperor of course.

"they have the space marines (astartes) and psykers and the like"midterm360

Personally I think the IOM assassins would play a much larger factor in the Empire defeat.

"For those that DEFY the imperium,only the emperor can JUDGE your CRIMES. Only in DEATH can you receive the emperor's JUDGEMENT."

Sorry for any spelling errors I may have made







Author:   Palpatine!!!
Date:   Nov 27, 08 at 4:21pm (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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firstly the empire has legions of highly trianed stormtroopers, in much higher numbers than the imperium's space marines. secondly emporer palpatine is the most powerful and evil sith the galaxy has ever seen, with a lackey of almost equal power. the infamous darth vader. lastly the empire has at its command the most fearsom weapon ever seen, the death star, capable of destroying the planet the imperium's emporer is on crushing them.



Author:   40k
Date:   Dec 19, 08 at 10:52am (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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[div align=right][/div]In traditional stormtrooper Fashion they will always miss their target.
Space marines are Superhuman warriors with guns that shoot 80mm Caliber rounds that are diamantine tipped and explode on impact. That is the space marine standard issue gun.

The Space marines Have titans[look them up on wiki] yeah.
The average space marine can lift 70+tonnes.

The sith are nothing compared to the alpha level psykers that the imperium use to decimate their opposition.
One wave of thier HAND, Could split the death-star in half.
The star is extreamly slow.

The emporer anyway could also use his warp powers to destroy the death star in a single thought.

Think before you SUBMIT!!!



Author:   ojox the blob
Date:   Dec 23, 08 at 9:27am (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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The empire would own! maybe not against all the races of warhammer 40k but against one race it could own come on the empire has far, far superior numbers. [besides they couldnt fight - warhammer is futuristic hence 40,000 and star wars is past hence a LONG TIME ago in a galaxy far far away...] warhammer wouldnt even be able to take the mandalorians. and anyway if darth [enter sports teachers name here] got training the storm troopers they wouldnt miss



GO EMPIRE!



Author:   jj the coolness
Date:   Mar 26, 09 at 9:02pm (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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the GOD emporer would use his warp powers and blast apart armys of stormtroopers plus death star plus any crusers that the empire has. also he could easily kill darth vader and sidius with a twitch of his little finger.



Author:   Gorgutz EadUnter
Date:   Mar 27, 09 at 10:09am (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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The Empire of Star Wars could destroy The Imperial Guard it would seriously take about 3 Jedi to decimate the entire Guard I mean the IG hav standard lasguns lightsabers reflect lasers bak 2 the shooter and jedi move at the speed of light with the force and with there friends dying from there own shots lots of IG would run commisars would kill there own men and the titan could be beat by force lightning with would make them overload result BIG MASSIVE BOOM!!!!!!! killing millions of IG and once all the guardsmen psykers are dead as there sacrifice is what keeps the immortal emporeor alive he would die and then without the emporeor mankind would be demoralized and when the emporeor cant destroy the Death Star what do you think is going to happen to all SM battle Barges and planets BIG MASSIVE HUMUNGOUS BOOM!!! bye bye IG and SM and then Palpatine would rule the universe.

also without the God Emporeor who united mankind all old religions would come back and muslims would go bak to killing christians and jews christians would kill muslims and jews and jews would go back to killing christians and muslims it would be just like the crap we see today on the news and with mankind in civil unrest whats to stop Palpatine and Darth Vader just massacring everyone

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Author:   Whatevaa
Date:   Apr 03, 09 at 9:02pm (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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The star wars empire does not have superior numbers to the imperium. They might have more storm troopers than space marines but what would they do against the several billion imperial guardsmen?



Author:   Relmutsie AN
Date:   Apr 05, 09 at 6:56pm (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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There's the Marines, Imperials and the Sisters. Against the Sith? Imperium would win. Against the Jedi? Imperium would win. Against both combined? Imperium would win. They just have far superior numbers, armour and firepower. You can't forget that they all have incredible vehicles aswell as manual fire power. So they have the force. The Imperium has psychic powers too. Not to mention, we have Orbital Bombardment. And other special abilities. There's just no possible way.



Author:   WarMaster
Date:   May 13, 09 at 8:10am (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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Space marines are Superhuman warriors with guns that shoot 80mm Caliber rounds that are diamantine tipped and explode on impact. That is the space marine standard issue gun.

those bolters are 19.55mm (read the codex) and are weaker than the 25.4mm (1inch) heavy bolters which in turn are weaker then heavy stubbers which are similar in size and design (though they are slightly smaller) to ww2 Russian 14.5mm machine guns (which are the heaviest infantry machine guns ever produced and are still used today).

also remember 12 gauge solid shotgun rounds are 18.95mm but they don’t have the killing power of a 7.65mm ak-47 military grade steel hollow bullet pound for pound

12 gauge 3" 1 ounce slug
Muzzle Velocity: 1673 fps
Muzzle Energy: 2686 ft. lbs

7.65mm ak-47 8 gram steel hollow bullet
Muzzle Velocity: 2,300 fps
Muzzle energy: 1480 ft.lbs

Almost 2.5 times larger in diameter, 4.5 times heavier yet only 85% more muzzle energy. To make matters worse the tumbling effect an ak-47s bullet has when it impacts the human body as well as range beyond 20-30 meters closes the gap even further. This is solid evidence that bolters can be of higher caliber and still be inferior in killing power to the small heavy stubber rounds. Because like modern day shotguns bolters are designed to use a variety of rounds for specific purposes, in fact the only major differences in bolters and modern day automatic shotguns is the rounds [though it should be noted that the American military has developed a shotgun grenade shell with stabilizer fins (like the bolter rounds) that can penetrate soft wall and with a delayed detonator explode on the opposite side killing solders hiding behind] as well as range)

This gives us a upper limit to the firepower of bolters. (reference Imperial Armor Volume 5 - The Siege of Vraks pg 97 so please if you are going to respond to this get info that is 1st level canon like this, not 3rd level like the overrated novels) and also space marines armor not strong enough to stop penetration by bolter rounds (Imperial Armor Volume 5 - The Siege of Vraks pg 57-58)


The Space marines Have titans[look them up on wiki] yeah.
The average space marine can lift 70+tonnes.

Space marines can’t lift 70tones they can’t even handle the recoil of auto cannons (which are 20mm-25mm) even the mighty terminators need recoil compensators to handle their auto cannons. And these same auto cannons can be kept stable on a simple tripod in 40k (please note that all these claims are verified if you simply read the 40k publications which are highest canon). Space marines would not even have to be strong enough to lift one ton (or weigh one ton) in order to handle the recoil of an auto cannon. As for titans even the largest ones are only 25-40 meters (40K - Codex - Emperor Titans pg 1) tall that is about the same size as AT-ATs which are 30m tall and long (just watch the scene when Luke is roping up to the belly of the walker in Ep. 5, same movie also shows the AT-AT near-vaporize an armored military power generator over a kilometer in length, this would put it max firepower in the high megaton to low gigaton range) titans firepower cannot be more then the low kiloton range because defense lasers blackout power grids for miles (defence_laser.pdf from www.games –workshop.com), the amount of energy needed to power several square miles of a hive city would barely reach the kiloton range. And even the largest titan cannot hope to match a defense laser in terms of raw firepower so they would be no match for AT-ATs.

The sith are nothing compared to the alpha level psykers that the imperium use to decimate their opposition.
One wave of thier HAND, Could split the death-star in half.
The star is extreamly slow.

No they can’t, even the elder warlocks of the Ulthwe Seer Council (which are alpha psykers) can crush an enemy’s mind or fling a battle tank in the air with a pulse of a thought and avoid incoming bullets (ulthwe_seer_council.pdf from www.games –workshop.com) that is the extent of their power. Not even the emperor could stop a Ork warlord from strangling him (40K - Index Astartes IV: The Black Legion), he was saved just in time by Horus, who cut the creature’s arm off. Jedi and Sith can crush hearts, strangle with the force from long distances, pick up and throw multiple objects the size of large cars with just their mind, communicate telepathically over long distances and sense events across the galaxy, rip apart meter and a half thick metal support beams, block weapons fire from dozens of foes, blast lighting from their finger tips that can burn a non-jedi to a crisp, reflect energy, take a dozen hits from blaster bolts that kill even large beasts instantaneously before dying, fall hundreds of meters and land on a speeding vehicle without injury, force people to tell them information and control them, see into the future, run at lighting speeds, destroy armored droids with a wave of their hand, wield a weapon capable of cutting through almost anything and block the farseeing power of other force users on a galaxy wide scale. And this is just the power we see in the movies in other sources their power is even greater.

The emporer anyway could also use his warp powers to destroy the death star in a single thought.


See above he could not even destroy the ships in low orbit around Terra from Horus's fleet. Ships that were tens of millions of times smaller than the Death Star


The star wars empire does not have superior numbers to the imperium. They might have more storm troopers than space marines but what would they do against the several billion imperial guardsmen?

Actually star wars has quadrillions to quintillions of storm troopers, they would need those numbers to deal with the quintillions of battle droids the separatists had (Star Wars: complete cross –sections pg 85 which is 1st level or otherwise known as G-level canon) that is also why they were called the GRAND army of the republic before changing hands to the Galactic Empire. And also from just the movies (Ep.2) we can see that the civilization of Star Wars spans not one but 3 galaxies (1 main one and 2 dwarf satellite galaxies) this is also confirmed in the Star Wars: complete cross –sections pg 87. The amount of inhabited systems in this civilization would run easily in the tens of millions and many would no doubt be heavily developed like Coruscant, even if they were not, Coruscant alone has every square inch of the planet is covered in six kilometer high sky scrapers, if we were to assume it had the population density of Melbourne, Australia (which is sparsely populated compared to most other modern day cities) its population would be over 35 quadrillion people. Evan if we were to say that over 2 thirds of the living space would be taken up by power grids, sewage systems, internal green house farms with artificial sunlight to grow food (technology for this even exist today), military and civilian factories and water recycling plants, the pop would still be over 11 quadrillion. The amount of troops to keep the pop in check would be staggering, in the tens of trillions at lest and that is just for Coruscant that not including the millions of other systems under the empire control, to say nothing of the fortress worlds, military outposts and fleets which number in the millions of ships (Star Wars: complete cross –sections pg 86 clearly states that the separatists have millions of warships engaged in battles in the outer rim, the republic would have a similar amount of ships in the outer rim just to keep up with them, not to mention the vast amount of ships they had defending their own territories. These warships and their support ships would have thousands or tens of thousands of storm troopers on each one.) This would easily require troops in the quintillions. This even out numbers the Tyranids which in the codex publications are quoted to be in the billions or trillions, so good luck 40K your going to need it.

Sorry its two 40cm wideI shaped metal support beams and 6-12 blaster shots ot kill jedi

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Author:   tkman117
Date:   Jul 05, 09 at 4:18pm (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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I'd have to say that 40k takes the cake. First of all, would stormtroopers stand a chance against Space Marines? Can Jedi block bullets? Jedi versus Psyker...Pysker. And that's only the Imperial forces! Would the Empire or Republic (depends on which timeframe) have even a prayer against the Necrons? Would they?



Author:   Colonel Marksman
Date:   Jul 15, 09 at 6:16am (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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Emperor’s Holy Navy (Warhammer 40,000)
..........vs..........
Imperial Fleet (Star Wars)



http://www.merzo.net/
This is a good site to go to for size reference. If you go to the tab -10, you can see the Imperial Retribution Class Battleship, and below it, the Cobra Class Destroyer. These two are the general largest and smallest ships in the Emperor's Navy (the ships 5th and 6th down). In Internet Explorer, you can move the ships around for a side-by-side comparison.

Now, as for being in space, Star Wars really has no chance at all, were the full force of a sector fleet be called upon to defend against almost everything the Empire has to offer.

1. The ships of Warhammer 40,000 are built with, give or take the size of the ship, 30-100 meters of adamantium armor.


2. http://the-first-magelord.deviantart.com/art/Lance-Turret-82219094
— That is a standard lance cannon that comes in numbers, almost every warship has one. This is as powerful as a single blast from the Death Star in the Battle of Endor (when shooting at the Rebel cruisers). Oh yeah, the range of these weapons is several hundreds of kilometers. A man who helps operate one of these things may spend his entire life on it, him and his next three or four generations.

The reason I can say these lance batteries have the strength of the Endor Death Star single-shooting at the Rebel vessels is that lance batteries are designed to cut a warship clean in half and then force it into a cataclysmic explosion. Now imagine a few hundred of those...


3. Oh yeah, you have to get past the shields. There is a layer of shields that are designed to take 2-3 blasts of lance batteries (and remember, those are as powerful as shots from the Endor Death Star shooting at the Rebel ships). These can recharge in a matter of minutes.


4. The sides of the warships have 60-meter wide cannons. A full broadside is capable of ripping into hulls of 40k warships.


5. Boarding pods/gunboats. The pods used to board enemy vessels are designed to cut through adamantium armor once the shield is down. If the Imperium sent Space Marines aboard a Star Destroyer, the boarding pod would almost slice it in half.


6. Boarding an Imperial vessel with Storm Troopers led by Lord Vader? Ha, ha, ha, oh, you’re not joking? Several systems within the warship are manually hand-cranked like anchors pushed by a group of as many as 100 men. A capital ship is capable of holding a million crew members. They are trained to fight off daemonic powers that teleport straight inside, monsters 9 feet tall or bigger, and super soldiers that could flick their heads off.


7. Nova Cannons. The ultimate weapon of the Imperium, a cannon the size of a Mon Calamari cruiser. A single blast from a Nova Cannon (a shot that is almost the speed of light) will cause a near inter-dimensional implosion/follow-up explosion... destruction that spans roughly 270 kilometers in diameter. It will crinkle the Death Star like someone would crinkle a wad of paper, and then vaporize it with the power of the center of a nuclear blast. This would result in turning the Death Star into sci-fi’s greatest fragmentation grenade. These cannons have an incredible range of 2-3,000+ kilometers. Nova Cannons do not care what kind of shielding you have, how maneuverable you are, nor are they interested in who built your armor or how many years you took building a war fleet. It will be gone.


A fleet is capable of shooting these things at least once every 1-3 minutes. They are area-affect weapons against warships that stay in squadrons that are almost a hundred kilometers apart. While Star Wars may require creating specialized planet killers, Warhammer 40,000 standard-equipped weaponry on warships in a fleet serve as planet killers. Concentrated blasts from Nova Cannons and Lances on a centralized, weak point in a planet's crust will result in cracking holes to the core, creating a cataclysmic implosion/explosion.

As you can see, Star Wars turbolasers are nothing more than light shows compared to the weapon systems of the Imperium.


8. The warships that are the size of Star Destroyers make up some of the smallest vessels in the fleet, and are at least twice as powerful and three times as tough. In the Warhammer 40,000 universe, squadrons of ships the size of Star Destroyers are so weak that their only usefulness is mere cannon fodder!

9. You want to invade the Imperium of Man? Good luck... there’s hundreds of sectors in the Imperium, with hundreds of warships in each to protect a tiny, tiny portion of the Imperium as a whole. The fleet that was sucked into a giant warp storm during the Age of Apostasy probably carried at least a third of what the Imperium was capable at the time, mounting up to thousands of ships.


100 Borg Cubes couldn't stand up to the full might of the Emperor’s Holy Navy of the Imperium.

-------------------

Army of the Empire ==vs== Space Marines


This is just a joke. They send 100 Space Marines (plus transports, a few tanks and walkers) to conquer an entire planetary rebellion, and they do it with ruthless efficiency.

A Space Marine is an 8-foot giant with 2 hearts and a number of organ modifications. Let’s take the rigorous Space Wolves Chapter as an example from what I remember.

A tribal warrior can climb an icy mountain that would take several days without any equipment or help. If he reaches the top, he can become a Space Wolf. After some training that would make United States Marines cry, they may be given their first implant or two. This is done with no anesthetics. If you survive that, you are given some tough armor and must prove yourself in battle.

Over time you will be given more augments, bionics, and new, bigger implants in surgeries with no anesthetics. Only after 100 years of constant training in a Boot Camp that never seems to end and in countless battles and a few campaigns, you are allowed to be inducted as a true Space Marine.

The Bolter is a .75 magnum caliber sub-machinegun with bullets that explode on impact. The first time you pick one up, the barrel is half the size of your face, the rounds as heavy as .50 caliber Anti-aircraft rounds. Now learn to shoot it!

Part of your training includes merciless close combat drills and battlefield training as a Space Marine scout. You must learn to wield your primary weapon: the Boltgun, or Bolter as affectionally named.


You are to climb down the mountain, and tread over half the frozen continent completely naked with only a knife. You have to track a pack of bear-sized wolves, kill one with only your knife, and drag it back to the fortress.

Congratulations. You are now private first class! Welcome to the Space Wolves chapter. Here is your official bolter, real power armor, and now we need to give you a few more surgeries.


You wage wars against Tyranids that carpet an entire continent, capable of swallowing an entire Bug-held world from Starship Troopers and leaving it as nothing more than an airless rock after consumption. You have fought an 80-hour battle against space Orks who are roughly as strong as you are with no sleep, food, or water. You lost count of how many you have killed. On each world you have been given no gratitude or thanks. You have fought in a dozen campaigns and have faced the most indescribable horrors known to a man. You watched your battle-brothers get ripped in half by an enemy psyker. You have taken a fragmentation grenade to the face, and you have had your leg stepped on and pulverized by an enemy mecha.

Congratulations, you are now a veteran sergeant.

Four hundred years later, you believe you have seen it all. You show no mercy in battle and have slain thousands of foes with your bare hands. You have proven yourself to become a captain over a small army of Marines.

Keep it up and you might one day become a Chapter Master or have your ancient life preserved in a Dreadnought in a few hundred years.


A Space Marine carries armor that is capable of withstanding some anti-tank shells of our time. Lasers that would burn a hole through a human merrily becomes absorbed. His helmet gives him any visuals he may need, fighting in the dark, smoke, blazing heat, you name it. He can even rest for several hours in a “turned off” mode. If he is skilled enough, he can fight sub-consciously while sleeping.

He can crush a human-sized skull with his bare hands. In his power armor, were he to grab two humans, he could smash their heads against a third in-between and turn them all into bloody pulps. He can punch through brick walls and create his own entry or climb atop a tank and rip the hatch off. His wounds heal ultra-fast, and he can fight on moderately effectively were you to rip off one of his arms. He can fight on an hour or two and shoot his weapons if you rip him clean in half at the waist.

By the time he is a captain, he is an expert in boarding parties, and specialized in anti-tank super heavy guns, anti-infantry tactics in holding the line, advanced combat, grenade placement, stalking, jump pack assault, setting traps of all kinds, planetary invasion, probably learned how to drive 6 different vehicles and was a gunner in a warship, in several different tanks, and those mounted on forts, what to do when alien corrosive acid burns through the chest of your comrade while you are fighting off three others by yourself in an evacuation process, and has probably used all these skills to the fullest in a single battle that lasted a week long.


I don't remember who it was that said a Phase III Storm Trooper could take on a Space Marine, but you be the judge of that.


That’s just the Space Marines. Their tanks seem to be laughable when pitted against more advanced technology, but when your weapons bounce off their armor and their weapons rip your soldiers in half as they advance we will see who is laughing.



Melta weapons. Some of my favorite in the Warhammer 40,000 realm. These are specialized anti-tank weapons capable of incinerating the most armored vehicle in today’s mankind through sheer heat and melting power. I didn't say "explode", "destroy", or "stop", I said incinerate, IOW, there used to be a mass of molecules there known as a tank, now they're not there anymore. Granted, these weapons have a poor range of a hundred meters or so, but the closer it is, the more powerful a shot. There are hand-held pistols, specialized two-handed assault weapons (meltagun), and the heavier multi-melta or melta cannon. The size of the weapons does not increase the strength (as they are potent enough), only the range.

A single meltagun is capable of crippling an AT-AT walker.

Lascannon. This baby is too large for a normal human being to carry, and must be used by a two-man team. A Space Marine can carry it as a shoulder-mounted weapon. Oh yeah, they’re as strong as turbolasers.

Plasma weapons. Anti-personnel and anti-light tank weaponry. Longer-ranged than melta weapons that shoot more rapidly. They are slightly weaker and can get got and explode if used improperly, but these are also common weapons that come in the form of pistols, guns, and cannons. Still, a single shot from a plasma weapon will burn a hole through a human's chest and another hole into the next human's chest, even if he were hiding behind an armored wall. Even a mighty Space Marine can't stand up very well to a plasma weapon.



I'm sorry, you're puny Star Wars heavy blasters do not equal the special weapons of the Imperium.


The Terminators — Space Marine Terminators combine the best of Mankind (Marines) with the best and rarest of armor that can shrug of weapons that would level a building or blow up your house. They can teleport onto a battlefield and have a storm-bolter, a double-barreled, shorter version of the .75 magnum caliber Bolter, and they will use these as a second hand weapon in combat next to their power fist. A thermal detonator would have some issues in getting through the tactical dreadnought armor they wear. In addition, the crux terminatus on their shoulder pads gives the Terminators a sense of special shielding as powerful as deflector shields on Droidekas.

Some Terminators take on the job of Titan-hunting. I will elaborate further.


Space Marines usually come alone as a force, and commanders will gladly pull back their entire companies of battle tanks and thousands of infantry to simply not get in the way of a 100 Marines.

But should the enemy be great, the Space Marines do not come alone.


Battle Titans of the Imperium dwarf even AT-AT walkers, and if they hand hands they could pick them up like toys. Each foot of the heaviest titans are designed to carry an entire platoon of troops. Their missile strikes can level cities, and their arm-cannons can mow down an entire army of battle tanks. Some are mobile battle fortresses.

Small scout titans also exist, and are playable giants in the game.


Space Marine terminators can carry weapons called Thunderhammers. These are designed to shake even the hardiest of tanks apart, turning the survivors’s eardrums inside to mush. They use these to break the legs of Titans and shake them off balance.

A single Terminator Titan-hunter can take the shooting from an AT-AT, run up to it, and with a good, single blow, knock the whole thing down. A squad of ten would knock it’s legs off, and then step upon and crush the survivors.



Star Wars Empire vs the Imperial Guard

I don’t know how many worlds the Empire had, but the Imperium of Man had several million. Each world must tithe their number of men (and sometimes women) to the Imperial Guard. Some are so devoted to the Imperium, they will dedicate every first-born child to the Imperial Guard, and others will whole-heartedly devote their entire populace. On the world of Cadia, children learn how to shoot weapons the moment they have learned how to walk.

The Imperium is so vast, that there are hundreds of thousands of worlds that are nothing more than factories. They produce Titans, warships, weapon systems, and and undying vast amount of technology. I very seriously doubt the Empire could out-produce the Imperium. That excludes what each individual world is capable of creating within their own factories.

You think Coruscant is big and has a mighty population? The Imperium has hundreds of worlds (called hive worlds) with billions in population. Holy Terra (Earth) itself entire inner crust has been removed and replaced by a facility that reaches the full diameter of the entire planet. There are man-made mountains of skyscrapers. It's population numbers tens of trillions, which is at least three or four times the population of Coruscant following the Clone Wars. A productive Hive World can produce enough equipment for 1 million troops in a single day.

Total population of the Imperium is of course impossible to calculate. There's millions of worlds, 1 in 20 being a hive world with an average population of 10-100 billion each. The Imperium totals easily 20 quintillion inhabitants.


In every way, shape, and form, the Empire of Star Wars is out-gunned, out-powered, out-maned, out-numbered in warships, out-done in weapon and shield technologies, in super soldiers, as well as production rate.



Author:   Darkman3483
Date:   Aug 05, 09 at 6:14pm (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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Well, an accurate guess on this topic isn't really easy, as we do not have really much concrete numbers for Firepower in 40k, which can be good and bad.

At least in space combat, some estimates might be possible. My knowledge is somewhat limited, so my question would be, are there any known examples of a fleet, that bombed a planet totaly to slack, meaning effectivly redering all resources useless and making the planet uninahbitable, using just normal weapons, NOT Exterminatus weapons?

For reference, a Stardestroyer is capable of doing this within one hour, assuming of course, that the world is effectivly defenseless.

I personally think, that Star Wars is somewhat superrior in direct space combat, hard to tell, if an ISD is really just an Escort or maybe a Battleship in terms of firepower and shields and stuff, just smaller.

In ground combat, 40k is most likely overall superrior, although not as badly as it is partly assumed here. The quality of Stormtrooper Armour is actually pretty high, I'd say somewhere between IG and Spacemarine. Of course a Spacemarine is quite superrior to Stormtroopers, but they aren't the top end of the troops of the Galactic Empire. I'd say, the most powerfull Infantary is the Dark Trooper, which should be pretty much same level as a Spacemarine. And their standard weapon is I'd say much stronger, than a punny Bolter. But 40k has more weapons and Titans, which ARE bigger and most likely stronger, than any Imperial Walker. Air and orbital support is available to both sides, so draw here. Overall still better end on 40k side.

The raw numbers are terribly difficult to estimate, both for IoM and GE. Both have millions of worlds, countless ground troops, prolly Millions of ships and enormous resources.

A clear advantage of the GE over the IoM would be their FTL flight, which is highly reliable, very safe (no Warp dangers) and incredibly fast. Most likely it would also be a quation of if we talk about a war of conquest or of anhialation.



Author:   Warmaster
Date:   Sep 09, 09 at 9:16am (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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quote tkman117
I'd have to say that 40k takes the cake. First of all, would stormtroopers stand a chance against Space Marines? Can Jedi block bullets? Jedi versus Psyker...Pysker. And that's only the Imperial forces! Would the Empire or Republic (depends on which timeframe) have even a prayer against the Necrons? Would they?
An ordinary guardsmen killed two chaos space marines in storm of iron with an assault cannon dispite the fact that he was ambushed and outnumbered and he still survived the encounter, killing space marines is no big deal as long as you have enough firepower and that the storm troopers have. Blasters can vap a hole through a thick metal grate big enough for a 7ft+ wookie to jump through (Ep4), that would have needed 500MJ to accomplish if it was just made out of iron (in a space age ship the metal would obviously be stronger) not to mention that the vast majority of energy was wasted into the vent so the energy blast would easy be 3-4 times greater and this is just their carbines, nothing in wh40k can match this except their heavy weapons. As for psykers most of them are nothing more then conduits for deamons most of them are poor at combat. The ones that are (greyknights, librarians, warlocks, farseers) have never demonstrated reflexes good enough to block weapons fire let alone reflect it back at the attacker (this alone gives jedi a good advantage in melee combat) bullets can be blocked using the force (anything with telekinetic abilities can do this). Necrons are good but not that good or they would have busted the galaxy long ago the IOM have defeated them many times despite their massive tech disadvantaged (both to the necorns and SW) so they are not an impossible obstacle to overcome.



Author:   Warmaster
Date:   Sep 09, 09 at 12:38pm (PST)
Subject:   re: warhammer 40K vs star wars
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quote Colonel Marksman
Emperor’s Holy Navy (Warhammer 40,000)
..........vs..........
Imperial Fleet (Star Wars)



http://www.merzo.net/
This is a good site to go to for size reference. If you go to the tab -10, you can see the Imperial Retribution Class Battleship, and below it, the Cobra Class Destroyer. These two are the general largest and smallest ships in the Emperor's Navy (the ships 5th and 6th down). In Internet Explorer, you can move the ships around for a side-by-side comparison.

Now, as for being in space, Star Wars really has no chance at all, were the full force of a sector fleet be called upon to defend against almost everything the Empire has to offer.

1. The ships of Warhammer 40,000 are built with, give or take the size of the ship, 30-100 meters of adamantium armor.

adamantium is weak as

2. http://the-first-magelord.deviantart.com/art/Lance-Turret-82219094
— That is a standard lance cannon that comes in numbers, almost every warship has one. This is as powerful as a single blast from the Death Star in the Battle of Endor (when shooting at the Rebel cruisers). Oh yeah, the range of these weapons is several hundreds of kilometers. A man who helps operate one of these things may spend his entire life on it, him and his next three or four generations.

The reason I can say these lance batteries have the strength of the Endor Death Star single-shooting at the Rebel vessels is that lance batteries are designed to cut a warship clean in half and then force it into a cataclysmic explosion. Now imagine a few hundred of those...

as I said these warships are weak as

3. Oh yeah, you have to get past the shields. There is a layer of shields that are designed to take 2-3 blasts of lance batteries (and remember, those are as powerful as shots from the Endor Death Star shooting at the Rebel ships). These can recharge in a matter of minutes.

that would make their shields weak as

4. The sides of the warships have 60-meter wide cannons. A full broadside is capable of ripping into hulls of 40k warships.

see above

5. Boarding pods/gunboats. The pods used to board enemy vessels are designed to cut through adamantium armor once the shield is down. If the Imperium sent Space Marines aboard a Star Destroyer, the boarding pod would almost slice it in half.

Wow I never knew!

6. Boarding an Imperial vessel with Storm Troopers led by Lord Vader? Ha, ha, ha, oh, you’re not joking? Several systems within the warship are manually hand-cranked like anchors pushed by a group of as many as 100 men. A capital ship is capable of holding a million crew members. They are trained to fight off daemonic powers that teleport straight inside, monsters 9 feet tall or bigger, and super soldiers that could flick their heads off.

Then why would they need grey knights, space marines, psykers etc. And they get slaughtered anyway even when facing a single chaos space marine and his knife welding moronic cultists not to mention this shows that they are so primitive they can’t make automated systems for their main guns

7. Nova Cannons. The ultimate weapon of the Imperium, a cannon the size of a Mon Calamari cruiser. A single blast from a Nova Cannon (a shot that is almost the speed of light) will cause a near inter-dimensional implosion/follow-up explosion... destruction that spans roughly 270 kilometers in diameter. It will crinkle the Death Star like someone would crinkle a wad of paper, and then vaporize it with the power of the center of a nuclear blast. This would result in turning the Death Star into sci-fi’s greatest fragmentation grenade. These cannons have an incredible range of 2-3,000+ kilometers. Nova Cannons do not care what kind of shielding you have, how maneuverable you are, nor are they interested in who built your armor or how many years you took building a war fleet. It will be gone.

This is BS on a grand scale

A fleet is capable of shooting these things at least once every 1-3 minutes. They are area-affect weapons against warships that stay in squadrons that are almost a hundred kilometers apart. While Star Wars may require creating specialized planet killers, Warhammer 40,000 standard-equipped weaponry on warships in a fleet serve as planet killers. Concentrated blasts from Nova Cannons and Lances on a centralized, weak point in a planet's crust will result in cracking holes to the core, creating a cataclysmic implosion/explosion.

Ahhhhh so you thought all this crap up from the bombardment of Nostramo, funny in The Dark King (which describes the action in detail). Said it took half a century of ships (50 in case you don’t know Roman numerals) firing all their lance batteries together and focusing them all in to a single beam to punch through a weak spot in the adamantine (???) planets crust (how pathetic) and this caused and the “cataclysmic explosion” interestingly did not blow the planet up Death Star style, but rather started a chain reaction that caused the tectonic plates to split apart and the magnum under the surface to spill out and destroy the surface. The petaton grade (star wars complete incredible cross-sections confirms this) FP of one star destroyer’s heavy turbolasers could melt the entire crust in less then a minute. (Please try to read the novels properly before making rash statements like that)

As you can see, Star Wars turbolasers are nothing more than light shows compared to the weapon systems of the Imperium.

BS

8. The warships that are the size of Star Destroyers make up some of the smallest vessels in the fleet, and are at least twice as powerful and three times as tough. In the Warhammer 40,000 universe, squadrons of ships the size of Star Destroyers are so weak that their only usefulness is mere cannon fodder!

Again Pure BS

9. You want to invade the Imperium of Man? Good luck... there’s hundreds of sectors in the Imperium, with hundreds of warships in each to protect a tiny, tiny portion of the Imperium as a whole. The fleet that was sucked into a giant warp storm during the Age of Apostasy probably carried at least a third of what the Imperium was capable at the time, mounting up to thousands of ships.

And the Death Star shows SW has millions to tens of milions of warships your point?

100 Borg Cubes couldn't stand up to the full might of the Emperor’s Holy Navy of the Imperium.

100 Borg Cubes with their pathetic gigaton grade FP (at best) couldn't stand up to the FP of one SD

-------------------

Army of the Empire ==vs== Space Marines


This is just a joke. They send 100 Space Marines (plus transports, a few tanks and walkers) to conquer an entire planetary rebellion, and they do it with ruthless efficiency.

A Space Marine is an 8-foot giant with 2 hearts and a number of organ modifications. Let’s take the rigorous Space Wolves Chapter as an example from what I remember.

A tribal warrior can climb an icy mountain that would take several days without any equipment or help. If he reaches the top, he can become a Space Wolf. After some training that would make United States Marines cry, they may be given their first implant or two. This is done with no anesthetics. If you survive that, you are given some tough armor and must prove yourself in battle.

Over time you will be given more augments, bionics, and new, bigger implants in surgeries with no anesthetics. Only after 100 years of constant training in a Boot Camp that never seems to end and in countless battles and a few campaigns, you are allowed to be inducted as a true Space Marine.

The Bolter is a .75 magnum caliber sub-machinegun with bullets that explode on impact. The first time you pick one up, the barrel is half the size of your face, the rounds as heavy as .50 caliber Anti-aircraft rounds. Now learn to shoot it!

Part of your training includes merciless close combat drills and battlefield training as a Space Marine scout. You must learn to wield your primary weapon: the Boltgun, or Bolter as affectionally named.


You are to climb down the mountain, and tread over half the frozen continent completely naked with only a knife. You have to track a pack of bear-sized wolves, kill one with only your knife, and drag it back to the fortress.

Congratulations. You are now private first class! Welcome to the Space Wolves chapter. Here is your official bolter, real power armor, and now we need to give you a few more surgeries.


You wage wars against Tyranids that carpet an entire continent, capable of swallowing an entire Bug-held world from Starship Troopers and leaving it as nothing more than an airless rock after consumption. You have fought an 80-hour battle against space Orks who are roughly as strong as you are with no sleep, food, or water. You lost count of how many you have killed. On each world you have been given no gratitude or thanks. You have fought in a dozen campaigns and have faced the most indescribable horrors known to a man. You watched your battle-brothers get ripped in half by an enemy psyker. You have taken a fragmentation grenade to the face, and you have had your leg stepped on and pulverized by an enemy mecha.

Congratulations, you are now a veteran sergeant.

Four hundred years later, you believe you have seen it all. You show no mercy in battle and have slain thousands of foes with your bare hands. You have proven yourself to become a captain over a small army of Marines.

Keep it up and you might one day become a Chapter Master or have your ancient life preserved in a Dreadnought in a few hundred years.


A Space Marine carries armor that is capable of withstanding some anti-tank shells of our time. Lasers that would burn a hole through a human merrily becomes absorbed. His helmet gives him any visuals he may need, fighting in the dark, smoke, blazing heat, you name it. He can even rest for several hours in a “turned off” mode. If he is skilled enough, he can fight sub-consciously while sleeping.

He can crush a human-sized skull with his bare hands. In his power armor, were he to grab two humans, he could smash their heads against a third in-between and turn them all into bloody pulps. He can punch through brick walls and create his own entry or climb atop a tank and rip the hatch off. His wounds heal ultra-fast, and he can fight on moderately effectively were you to rip off one of his arms. He can fight on an hour or two and shoot his weapons if you rip him clean in half at the waist.

By the time he is a captain, he is an expert in boarding parties, and specialized in anti-tank super heavy guns, anti-infantry tactics in holding the line, advanced combat, grenade placement, stalking, jump pack assault, setting traps of all kinds, planetary invasion, probably learned how to drive 6 different vehicles and was a gunner in a warship, in several different tanks, and those mounted on forts, what to do when alien corrosive acid burns through the chest of your comrade while you are fighting off three others by yourself in an evacuation process, and has probably used all these skills to the fullest in a single battle that lasted a week long.


I don't remember who it was that said a Phase III Storm Trooper could take on a Space Marine, but you be the judge of that.


That’s just the Space Marines. Their tanks seem to be laughable when pitted against more advanced technology, but when your weapons bounce off their armor and their weapons rip your soldiers in half as they advance we will see who is laughing.

And despite all that religious blabber these guys get killed (or hospitalized) by weapons that are the same as ones that are available to modern day infantry (a space wolf in Grey Hunter was forced back and had his armor cracked and pierced in over a dozen places from hundreds of lead bullets, that’s less armor strength then a modern APC, one would almost expect ST armor to do better

Melta weapons. Some of my favorite in the Warhammer 40,000 realm. These are specialized anti-tank weapons capable of incinerating the most armored vehicle in today’s mankind through sheer heat and melting power. I didn't say "explode", "destroy", or "stop", I said incinerate, IOW, there used to be a mass of molecules there known as a tank, now they're not there anymore. Granted, these weapons have a poor range of a hundred meters or so, but the closer it is, the more powerful a shot. There are hand-held pistols, specialized two-handed assault weapons (meltagun), and the heavier multi-melta or melta cannon. The size of the weapons does not increase the strength (as they are potent enough), only the range.

A single meltagun is capable of crippling an AT-AT walker.

So a warlord titan sized armored transport that can shrug off kiloton grade weapons like rain of a tank is suddenly vulnerable to a gigajoule grade steam hose? God you are nuts!

Lascannon. This baby is too large for a normal human being to carry, and must be used by a two-man team. A Space Marine can carry it as a shoulder-mounted weapon. Oh yeah, they’re as strong as turbolasers.

BS BS BS BS BS...

Plasma weapons. Anti-personnel and anti-light tank weaponry. Longer-ranged than melta weapons that shoot more rapidly. They are slightly weaker and can get got and explode if used improperly, but these are also common weapons that come in the form of pistols, guns, and cannons. Still, a single shot from a plasma weapon will burn a hole through a human's chest and another hole into the next human's chest, even if he were hiding behind an armored wall. Even a mighty Space Marine can't stand up very well to a plasma weapon.

Must be one thin wall. God I almost feel stupid talk to this nut.

I'm sorry, you're puny Star Wars heavy blasters do not equal the special weapons of the Imperium.

You're right they are Better

The Terminators — Space Marine Terminators combine the best of Mankind (Marines) with the best and rarest of armor that can shrug of weapons that would level a building or blow up your house. They can teleport onto a battlefield and have a storm-bolter, a double-barreled, shorter version of the .75 magnum caliber Bolter, and they will use these as a second hand weapon in combat next to their power fist. A thermal detonator would have some issues in getting through the tactical dreadnought armor they wear. In addition, the crux terminatus on their shoulder pads gives the Terminators a sense of special shielding as powerful as deflector shields on Droidekas.

So.... Droidekas are simmarler to Terminators in shield strengh? Thanks, I don't see how this helps you but thanks!

Some Terminators take on the job of Titan-hunting. I will elaborate further.


Space Marines usually come alone as a force, and commanders will gladly pull back their entire companies of battle tanks and thousands of infantry to simply not get in the way of a 100 Marines.

But should the enemy be great, the Space Marines do not come alone.


Battle Titans of the Imperium dwarf even AT-AT walkers, and if they hand hands they could pick them up like toys. Each foot of the heaviest titans are designed to carry an entire platoon of troops. Their missile strikes can level cities, and their arm-cannons can mow down an entire army of battle tanks. Some are mobile battle fortresses.

Small scout titans also exist, and are playable giants in the game.

Only Imperator Titans are bigger then AT-ATs and they can do the same thing with a Max FP Blast and they can carry whole platoons of troops as well so there!

Space Marine terminators can carry weapons called Thunderhammers. These are designed to shake even the hardiest of tanks apart, turning the survivors’s eardrums inside to mush. They use these to break the legs of Titans and shake them off balance.

A single Terminator Titan-hunter can take the shooting from an AT-AT, run up to it, and with a good, single blow, knock the whole thing down. A squad of ten would knock it’s legs off, and then step upon and crush the survivors.

BS BS BS BS!!!

Star Wars Empire vs the Imperial Guard

I don’t know how many worlds the Empire had, but the Imperium of Man had several million. Each world must tithe their number of men (and sometimes women) to the Imperial Guard. Some are so devoted to the Imperium, they will dedicate every first-born child to the Imperial Guard, and others will whole-heartedly devote their entire populace. On the world of Cadia, children learn how to shoot weapons the moment they have learned how to walk.

And yet they died like flies and carry equipment little better then modern day infantry!

The Imperium is so vast, that there are hundreds of thousands of worlds that are nothing more than factories. They produce Titans, warships, weapon systems, and and undying vast amount of technology. I very seriously doubt the Empire could out-produce the Imperium. That excludes what each individual world is capable of creating within their own factories.

You think Coruscant is big and has a mighty population? The Imperium has hundreds of worlds (called hive worlds) with billions in population. Holy Terra (Earth) itself entire inner crust has been removed and replaced by a facility that reaches the full diameter of the entire planet. There are man-made mountains of skyscrapers. It's population numbers tens of trillions, which is at least three or four times the population of Coruscant following the Clone Wars. A productive Hive World can produce enough equipment for 1 million troops in a single day.

Total population of the Imperium is of course impossible to calculate. There's millions of worlds, 1 in 20 being a hive world with an average population of 10-100 billion each. The Imperium totals easily 20 quintillion inhabitants.

Can you do math? The IOM as One Million worlds not millions and even if every single was a hive planet with 100 billion people it would only ad up to 100 trillion which is 200,000, times smaller then your estimate (Good God basic math gone to hell)


In every way, shape, and form, the Empire of Star Wars is out-gunned, out-powered, out-maned, out-numbered in warships, out-done in weapon and shield technologies, in super soldiers, as well as production rate.
What SW builds in months wh40k builds in centuries and not as large. As for the rest read my statements above


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