Neoseeker.com Forum Thread: Character Promotions-first post updated - page 9

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original thread: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/21712/t740462-character-promotions-first-post-updated/9.htm


Author:   Hot Head
Date:   Oct 04, 06 at 2:51am (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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well, it there now, just so everyone knows that I'm not happy about falling behind on this thread

now I'll ask a third time, could somebody give me a recap of whats been discussed thus far



Author:   Bread Effect
Date:   Oct 08, 06 at 4:51pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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quote The Deathwind
quote WJC
quote Eliwood the Slayer
Apparently, an argument is on between four people. The two most idiots are TS and DL.

I won't hesitate to call LW or BS if you don't stop...
If we are not allowed to discuss Sacred Stones on the *Sacred Stones* Board, then what exactly is the purpose of this forum?
It must be an FETSSGB Mark 2.

Quick, get the rest of the LotS/GHEB crew over.

@LW: Yes. Secret Shops after finishing the main game.
What chapter, place name, and where is the Secret shop for those Promotion items?



Author:   TemplarSimon
Date:   Oct 08, 06 at 6:13pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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Grado Keep and Jehanna Hall (Father and Son and Queen of White Dunes, AKA Chapter 14) have them ingame, as does Rausten Court (Last Hope, Chapter 19). The same are found in Creature Campaign in the same spots on the World Map.



Author:   Blaster Sarge
Date:   Oct 09, 06 at 1:31am (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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uhh... i have no idea whats happened so far, so...




gerik for hero? and tana for falcoknight? and ewan for druid



Author:   WJC
Date:   Oct 09, 06 at 9:28pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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Well, if we want to actually discuss promotion choices here. For the campaign:

Joshua/Marisa -> Swordmaster
Colm -> Rogue
Ross -> Pirate/Warrior or Fighter/Hero
Garcia -> Hero
Gerik -> Hero
Neimi -> Ranger
Franz/Forde/Kyle -> Great Knight
Gilliam -> General
Amelia -> Cavalier/Great Knight
Cormag -> Either one
Vanessa/Tana -> Either one
Knoll -> Summoner
Ewan -> Mage/Mage Knight
Moulder -> Bishop
Artur -> Sage
Natasha -> Bishop
L'Arachel -> Mage Knight
Lute -> Mage Knight



Author:   Dragonlord999
Date:   Oct 09, 06 at 9:41pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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quote WJC
Ross -> Pirate/Warrior or Fighter/Hero

See other thread..?

Garcia -> Hero

I don't use him really, but yeah, Hero if I actuallly used him.

Amelia -> Cavalier/Great Knight

Again, other thread.

Ewan -> Mage/Mage Knight

Are you serious? MK? They have the lowest caps, and the only thing they have over anyone else is 1 CON and I believe 2 Move. Sage and Druid would both work a lot better than MK, because then he'd get more options, DM + Anima or Anima + Light. Hell, even Super Recruit is a good choice, since, TBH, his stats and caps as Pupil3 is actually pretty good. Though I can see that his CON might slow him a down a bit.

Artur -> Sage

I think both work, but I like Bishop mainly because Slayer is fairly useful.

Lute -> Mage Knight

Again, see other thread.




Author:   WJC
Date:   Oct 09, 06 at 10:04pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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quote
Are you serious? MK? They have the lowest caps, and the only thing they have over anyone else is 1 CON and I believe 2 Move. Sage and Druid would both work a lot better than MK, because then he'd get more options, DM + Anima or Anima + Light. Hell, even Super Recruit is a good choice, since, TBH, his stats and caps as Pupil3 is actually pretty good. Though I can see that his CON might slow him a down a bit.
Caps do not matter if Ewan does not hit them, and the average 20/10 Mage Knight Ewan fails to cap anything. Since my post was specifically in regards to the campaign, 20/10 is the highest expected LvL for a unit like Ewan without favoritism or abuse. Even if 20/20 was viable, Sage has one more point of Mag at 20/19 and 20/20(the last two Levels) due to its higher cap, Mage Knight has one more point of Mag for the other 17 due to a higher Promo Gain. So, MK is still better in that regard.

As far as Sage and Druid go otherwise, I would consider Druid to be the worst option of the three. I will begin by quoting my passage on Druid vs Sage in the Debate Topic:


quote
They[Druids] get it[Anima] at a D Rank, whereas a Sage should be at A Rank upon promotion. Elfire right from the promotion point is a nice option, but more importantly, you will actually see the Sage using Excalibur ingame. Starting at D Rank, the Druid won't hit S Anima for quite some time, and to hit S Anima instead of S Dark requires you to restrain the Druid's use of Dark Magic, which defeats the purpose of having it in the first place.

Now, Gleipnir is readily available to a Druid. Unfortunately, Gleipnir is the worst Sacred Twin by a good margin; highest raw Atk, but also by far the highest Wt, and the Wt gap is much larger than the Mt gap(Gleipnir has 5 more Mt than Excalibur, and after Excalibur's Spd boost, 12 more Wt). A Gleipnir wielder will pretty much never double, and will get doubled by almost any promoted enemy; that's a huge drawback. And as if it weren't enough, Gleipnir is not effective against Monsters the way that other Sacred Twins(including Excalibur) are, and even gives the worst stat boost(Excalibur and Ivaldi have the same Hit as Gleipnir and more Crit even after the Dark Tome's Skl boost).

Replace "Sage" with "Mage Knight" in that passage and it still applies perfectly. Dark Magic serves no practical purpose in this game, so a higher Anima Rank is certainly preferable to Dark Magic and Anima at a lower Rank. I would also mention that Mage Knight gains D Staves upon promotion, while Druid gains an E.

Other potential advantages for the Druid are limited to 2 more Spd after promotion. On the other hand, you must go through the Shaman class to reach Druid, and the Mage class to reach Mage Knight. Mage gets one more Spd in Promo Gains than Shaman, and with 7 Con Shaman loses 1 AS to Flux. This results in a 2 point AS advantage for the Mage throughout the time when Ewan is unpromoted, which cancels the Druid's 2 points of Spd postpromotion. And leaves it in the hole, after you consider the Mage Knight's superior Weapon Ranks, Move, Aid and mounted utility(Move Again after Rescuing, etc.).

Sage against Mage Knight is a much closer contest. It boils down to the Mage Knight's 1 point of Con and higher Move/Aid/utility against the Sage's Light Magic. Light Magic's only practical use is to achieve WTA over enemy Gorgons using Stone, which is cancelled by Mage Knight having an extra point of AS with Elfire and(more importantly) Excalibur. The only remaining point is the Mage Knight's Move/Aid/utility, to which the Sage has no answer, and thus the scales tip in the MK's favor.



Author:   TemplarSimon
Date:   Oct 09, 06 at 10:26pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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I agree with everything WJC said sans Ewan being best as an MK. I just find Stone far too threatening for any unit; only reason Lute misses out on Sage is because with 68 Avoid with WTD factored in plus the huge offensive bonus she has as a Mage Knight (can't pass up that +4 Atk), Sage's Light doesn't match up as well.



Author:   Blaster Sarge
Date:   Oct 09, 06 at 10:39pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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honestly, MK? the only unit that sould ever go there is L'Arachel. seriously, you guys know how to ruin a units potential



Author:   TemplarSimon
Date:   Oct 09, 06 at 11:14pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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Seriously, you've never looked at 20/10 averages.



Author:   WJC
Date:   Oct 09, 06 at 11:27pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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quote
honestly, MK? the only unit that sould ever go there is L'Arachel. seriously, you guys know how to ruin a units potential
Hardly:


quote
Even if 20/20 was viable, Sage has one more point of Mag at 20/19 and 20/20(the last two Levels) due to its higher cap, Mage Knight has one more point of Mag for the other 17 due to a higher Promo Gain. So, MK is still better in that regard.

Anyway, considering the number of aggressive Stone-wielding Gorgons in the game(I can count them on my fingers), Ewan will probably be targeted by Stone once, *maybe* twice in the course of an entire playthrough. If you have him specifically avoid it(not hard to do and not unreasonable, either), then he should never have to face it.

Now, if your strategy in Chapter 18 is to sit at the starting point and let the Eggs hatch, then kill all the Gorgons with a Bishop, there are plenty more aggressive Stone Gorgons to go around. On the other hand, I would say that this is a very bad idea next to the strategy of simply rushing the Eggs and killing as many as possible before they can hatch. The latter strategy is probably *less* risky(if you're tanking against over a dozen Gorgons with one unit, the odds of that one unit falling victim to Stone are significant even if the enemy's Stone Hitrates are below 20, and if it happens you're in trouble) and it nets you much more total Exp(Eggs ignore the Exp formula and hand out 50 Exp to anyone who kills them before they hatch; easily more than you will get for killing a mature non-boss Gorgon).

So Light Magic's WTA over Stone, while an undeniable advantage, is also a tiny one at best(to give you an idea, I would give it as much positive weight as I would give negative weight to Hero's Swordslayer weakness when considering the Ross promotions). Of course, the MK's one Con is hardly a big deal, either; but the odds that it will allow him, at least once or twice in the entire game, to double when the Sage would not have and needed to are pretty good. Looks like an even split to me, so *shrug*.



Author:   TemplarSimon
Date:   Oct 09, 06 at 11:58pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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I see your point. Kinda like at GFAQs with the Moulder 20/20 thing; I'd support it in a debate even if it's not my preference.

The only reasoning behind Sage > MK is because I'm dead scared of Stone.



Author:   Dragonlord999
Date:   Oct 10, 06 at 1:08am (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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Why are you guys so adamant on "20/10" being the final level? I get 20/15+ consistently on HM, without abuse of any sort. Usually 20/18+.



Author:   Eliwood the Slayer
Date:   Oct 10, 06 at 1:10am (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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quote Dragonlord999
Why are you guys so adamant on "20/10" being the final level? I get 20/15+ consistently on HM, without abuse of any sort. Usually 20/18+.
As of I..



Author:   Blaster Sarge
Date:   Oct 10, 06 at 1:19am (PST)
Subject:   re: Character Promotions-first post updated
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i agree. mabey in FE7 you end at 20/10, but in SS u end in about 20/15, and in PoR, the usual endgame level is 20/19 or so


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