Neoseeker.com Forum Thread: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke - page 4

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Author:   BrokenKnights
Date:   Oct 15, 11 at 8:56pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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You keep calling it a turn-based RPG. It's not. As you've thoroughly shown. If that's the main contention, then, yeah, you probably ought to hate this game. SQEX is doing what it can to stay competitive and one of those things is scrapping the turn-based formula. Don't get me wrong, I think that's an atrocious outlook, but its the reality of the industry.

The twenty steps back, I assume are the points you mentioned, and those are all easily remedied. Like you said, a lot of the mistakes are "stupid mistakes." All they need to do next time around is let you switch the controlling character. Add a bit more branching in the weapon customization. Balances summons to make them useful. These are all extraneous issues. The fundamentals are all there and I really like them.

They don't necessarily have to keep "Paradigm Shifts," but what I like about XIII is the "flow" that you seem to hate. I'm a big fan of the Grandia series which really added this element of character positioning being important, and we got to see some of that in XIII. You can't just fire off spells and attacks, but rather have to gauge how long its going to take you to pull off the attacks (get to the enemy, spell reaches the enemy, etc...) And you have to be careful that the enemy isn't going to move out of your attack.

The flow of the battles was done really well and at no point did I feel like battles dragged on.

In XIII, the evolution I saw in the series was from one where the player was a "soldier" to one where he becomes a "general." In the classic FFs, you control each character and decide what they do. You're a 3-4 soldiers in a war. In XIII, you dictated the tactics you wanted your soldiers to use. You became a general. And I personally liked that. And it was because I had that mentality, that I agree with you about the utter stupidity in getting a game over is one "soldier" died. But, again, easy fix.

All that being said, if you want a turn based game, Atlus is picking up all the slack and carrying all the weight of the genre. Digital Devil Saga and the Persona Series squash anything SQEX has ever tried to do.



Author:   doomed_soul89
Date:   Oct 15, 11 at 10:40pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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quote BrokenKnights
You keep calling it a turn-based RPG. It's not. As you've thoroughly shown. If that's the main contention, then, yeah, you probably ought to hate this game. SQEX is doing what it can to stay competitive and one of those things is scrapping the turn-based formula. Don't get me wrong, I think that's an atrocious outlook, but its the reality of the industry.

The twenty steps back, I assume are the points you mentioned, and those are all easily remedied. Like you said, a lot of the mistakes are "stupid mistakes." All they need to do next time around is let you switch the controlling character. Add a bit more branching in the weapon customization. Balances summons to make them useful. These are all extraneous issues. The fundamentals are all there and I really like them.

They don't necessarily have to keep "Paradigm Shifts," but what I like about XIII is the "flow" that you seem to hate. I'm a big fan of the Grandia series which really added this element of character positioning being important, and we got to see some of that in XIII. You can't just fire off spells and attacks, but rather have to gauge how long its going to take you to pull off the attacks (get to the enemy, spell reaches the enemy, etc...) And you have to be careful that the enemy isn't going to move out of your attack.

The flow of the battles was done really well and at no point did I feel like battles dragged on.

In XIII, the evolution I saw in the series was from one where the player was a "soldier" to one where he becomes a "general." In the classic FFs, you control each character and decide what they do. You're a 3-4 soldiers in a war. In XIII, you dictated the tactics you wanted your soldiers to use. You became a general. And I personally liked that. And it was because I had that mentality, that I agree with you about the utter stupidity in getting a game over is one "soldier" died. But, again, easy fix.

All that being said, if you want a turn based game, Atlus is picking up all the slack and carrying all the weight of the genre. Digital Devil Saga and the Persona Series squash anything SQEX has ever tried to do.
It's still turned based, one guy makes a move and then another and then another, etc. It's just stripped of everything that makes turn based games good and at a faster pace and making a horrible game is not a good way to stay competitive.

I actually kinda agree with you on this one (stressing the kinda). Before I go on further about how I agree I have to point out that this game was in development forever and frankly this kind of crap is what I expect from developers that are going out of buisness. The mistakes are basic there are more things done wrong then done right and like you said none of them individually seem all that hard to fix, so how the hell did they make so many and release with it? The only explanation I can think of is that they are stupid or they suck. Now for the part I agree with, there's no reason the extremely basic concept for the fast paced combat can't work, they just have to change every other part of the game for it to work, add something like gambits but better, let you switch which one you control at will, take out the auto attack, give more customization in both the characters and the equipment, get rid of stagger and the job switching, make the maps better, add environments to explore that are't part of the main story, allow your characters to backtrack and have some sort of point to it, add more side stuff and make it not all have to do with combat etc.

I don't hate the flow, I love good rpgs with flow, the problem is this isn't a good rpg. All it has going is the flow and even that gets ruined by the grind. The flow is the one step forward, the twenty steps back are the things I mentioned in my last paragraph. Again that would be all well and good if it wasn't reduced to doing the same patterns over and over again until it died, usually the pattern just being attacking with your strongest moves and healing. Every single battle dragged on.

Again you don't need any real tactics and can't even control your characters, generals can usually shout heal him you retard to a guy standing next to them. FFXIII is a massive de-evolution in every other FF you could control exactly what your characters did, which is more then just saying you take the med kit you take the shield(using a metaphor) isn't telling them what to do not just what to bring more general like? Wouldn't that make every other FF more of being a general then FFXIII? If anything FFXIII is the one where your a soldier, all you can control is what your one character does.

I'm not all too picky about if an rpg is an action one or a turn based one but FFXIII is a turn based one and a bad one, hell it'd be a bad action one, it's just bad for any rpg, and bad for a hack and slash it's just bad. Go play kingdom hearts 1&2, it has everything you like about FFXIII only it's way better.



Author:   Markimus_123
Date:   Oct 15, 11 at 10:52pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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quote doomed_soul89
It's still turned based, one guy makes a move and then another and then another, etc. It's just stripped of everything that makes turn based games good and at a faster pace and making a horrible game is not a good way to stay competitive.
Just thought I'd point out that FFXIII is not at all turn based
Turn based = you wait your turn, choose your moves, attack then it moves onto the next character/mob. The ATB system basically makes you think a little faster with your decisions, because while you're choosing attacks enemies are free to attack you, there's no taking turns involved



Author:   doomed_soul89
Date:   Oct 15, 11 at 11:29pm (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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quote Markimus_123
quote doomed_soul89
It's still turned based, one guy makes a move and then another and then another, etc. It's just stripped of everything that makes turn based games good and at a faster pace and making a horrible game is not a good way to stay competitive.
Just thought I'd point out that FFXIII is not at all turn based
Turn based = you wait your turn, choose your moves, attack then it moves onto the next character/mob. The ATB system basically makes you think a little faster with your decisions, because while you're choosing attacks enemies are free to attack you, there's no taking turns involved
Yes there is, FF7 on active was the same, once your gauge or the enemies gauge fills up it's your/their turn, if you don't go right away the other can take their turn though, it's the same just faster.



Author:   BrokenKnights
Date:   Oct 16, 11 at 2:28am (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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quote doomed_soul89
I actually kinda agree with you on this one (stressing the kinda). Before I go on further about how I agree I have to point out that this game was in development forever and frankly this kind of crap is what I expect from developers that are going out of buisness. The mistakes are basic there are more things done wrong then done right and like you said none of them individually seem all that hard to fix, so how the hell did they make so many and release with it? The only explanation I can think of is that they are stupid or they suck. Now for the part I agree with, there's no reason the extremely basic concept for the fast paced combat can't work, they just have to change every other part of the game for it to work, add something like gambits but better, let you switch which one you control at will, take out the auto attack, give more customization in both the characters and the equipment, get rid of stagger and the job switching, make the maps better, add environments to explore that are't part of the main story, allow your characters to backtrack and have some sort of point to it, add more side stuff and make it not all have to do with combat etc.

This entire paragraph is great logic, and real complaints. I'd agree with all of it. Glad you brought it up.

In the end, I still had more fun with FFXIII than FFXII. But you're absolutely right in that it could've been and probably should've been a lot better.

On a small aside, I definitely think the FFXIII is the most human, meaning I was able to connect with them on a personal level that surpassed any other party of characters (including FFVII). FFVII is still, obviously my favorite cast, by they fall into a lot of childish tropes and superhero/video game unrealness.



Author:   Vicarious
Date:   Oct 16, 11 at 2:38am (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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Yes it could have been way better but it's a little too late too whine about it ya know. It is what it is and there is no changing that.

They are a great company but must have just missed the key problems in this title. I agree that there was an abundance of problems so they should have been noticed.

But none of us were there so we can't really say anything about it.




Author:   doomed_soul89
Date:   Oct 16, 11 at 3:19am (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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quote BrokenKnights
This entire paragraph is great logic, and real complaints. I'd agree with all of it. Glad you brought it up.

In the end, I still had more fun with FFXIII than FFXII. But you're absolutely right in that it could've been and probably should've been a lot better.

On a small aside, I definitely think the FFXIII is the most human, meaning I was able to connect with them on a personal level that surpassed any other party of characters (including FFVII). FFVII is still, obviously my favorite cast, by they fall into a lot of childish tropes and superhero/video game unrealness.
I didn't like FFXII that much but I can see how people could of, FFXIII to me was just a series of horrible mistakes and crappy decisions which made for horrible gameplay ergo a horrible game. Yes it is very human to stay in the air while attacking several times in a row. This story was just as ridicules as the others only worse. It just had prettier graphics and better voice acting.



quote The Pursuit
Yes it could have been way better but it's a little too late too whine about it ya know. It is what it is and there is no changing that.

They are a great company but must have just missed the key problems in this title. I agree that there was an abundance of problems so they should have been noticed.

But none of us were there so we can't really say anything about it.

So when are we supposed to whine? Before we play it? If you don't ram someone's mistakes in the face repeated they do the same thing over again. Square hasn't been a great company for a very long time, they haven't released a truly great game in several years (least not on consoles) and their published games are often better then their deved ones. The mistakes were blatantly obviously, if this game wasn't hiding behind the FF name everyone would be ripping it a new one. I'm sure the circumstances which lead to it sucked but that's no excuse for releasing something with so many faults and bad choices (which they did simultaneously with FFXIV) Whatever talent square had seems to be all but gone.



Author:   Vicarious
Date:   Oct 16, 11 at 3:25am (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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Don't whine at all, it is just a video game and you can't change anything. I think they are very talented.. just running out of ideas so they have to come up with new ones which may or may not fit your precious fancy my friend.

They do things there that we would have to go through years of schooling to be able to master. With times changing as fast as they are they only just started with this new development type. It will probably take a while but I have faith that they can pull themselves together and create a masterpiece.

I am not gonna just sit here and be negative and whine about how there most recent games didn't abide to everything I wanted in a game. That just seems childish too me.




Author:   doomed_soul89
Date:   Oct 16, 11 at 4:10am (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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quote The Pursuit
Don't whine at all, it is just a video game and you can't change anything. I think they are very talented.. just running out of ideas so they have to come up with new ones which may or may not fit your precious fancy my friend.

They do things there that we would have to go through years of schooling to be able to master. With times changing as fast as they are they only just started with this new development type. It will probably take a while but I have faith that they can pull themselves together and create a masterpiece.

I am not gonna just sit here and be negative and whine about how there most recent games didn't abide to everything I wanted in a game. That just seems childish too me.

You do realize it's not the same people who work on these games every time right? Also how can anyone especially a talented person think having your controlling character die=game over in a game with magic that can instantly kill?

Playing this game took almost the last of faith for square away. All I have left is enough to check out versus and the psp one when they come out, buying games over and over on faith is what makes game developers get lazy and keep making horrible games.

So your going to sit here and say "It was horrible this time but it will be prefect next time I'm sure of it"? Atleast the childish one is right and makes sense. All you have is blind faith.



Author:   Vicarious
Date:   Oct 16, 11 at 4:14am (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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If you never buy there games then they won't have money too make anymore. I don't think it will be perfect next time. I just said it will take time. I have liked all there games anyways so it isn't a big deal too me man.

Just because they have made a few games that weren't on par to there last ones doesn't mean they all won't be. Just let them find there groove.




Author:   Tam85
Date:   Oct 16, 11 at 5:11am (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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The thing that bothered me the most was not having any sidequests to do until after u beat the game,and why the hate for ff12?13 wasnt completly horrible but 12 was way better the gambit system beats paridgin hands down you had WAY more freedom to develop ur charecters marks were better summons were to.You could explore and interact with people.I think the only thing 13 had better was the charecters were uniqe they werent fleshed out in 12.



Author:   doomed_soul89
Date:   Oct 16, 11 at 5:16am (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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quote The Pursuit
If you never buy there games then they won't have money too make anymore. I don't think it will be perfect next time. I just said it will take time. I have liked all there games anyways so it isn't a big deal too me man.

Just because they have made a few games that weren't on par to there last ones doesn't mean they all won't be. Just let them find there groove.

They have been steadily going down hill since FFX and FFXIII is pure crap, I'm so glad I didn't buy it. They aren't going to find their groove they suck now, it's time for people to stop buying games and let it die and make way for some new devs with potential.



Author:   Vicarious
Date:   Oct 16, 11 at 5:23am (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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quote doomed_soul89
quote The Pursuit
If you never buy there games then they won't have money too make anymore. I don't think it will be perfect next time. I just said it will take time. I have liked all there games anyways so it isn't a big deal too me man.

Just because they have made a few games that weren't on par to there last ones doesn't mean they all won't be. Just let them find there groove.

They have been steadily going down hill since FFX and FFXIII is pure crap, I'm so glad I didn't buy it. They aren't going to find their groove they suck now, it's time for people to stop buying games and let it die and make way for some new devs with potential.
If that is how you feel the you don't have to buy there games. You do know they sell in more places then America right. Japan loves there games and will always buy them along with me. Just get over it man, I don't see why you are so hurt by this.

Just don't buy the games bro . I am an actual fan of SQNX and I don't live my life with such low hope ad expectations like you. You must be bad in really life experiences man.. Lol



Author:   BrokenKnights
Date:   Oct 16, 11 at 5:41am (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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I've just got to say. It's "their" when you're talking in the possessive. All those "there"s are kinda blowing my mind.



Author:   doomed_soul89
Date:   Oct 16, 11 at 5:43am (PST)
Subject:   re: Final Fantasy series has become a bad joke
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quote The Pursuit
quote doomed_soul89
quote The Pursuit
If you never buy there games then they won't have money too make anymore. I don't think it will be perfect next time. I just said it will take time. I have liked all there games anyways so it isn't a big deal too me man.

Just because they have made a few games that weren't on par to there last ones doesn't mean they all won't be. Just let them find there groove.

They have been steadily going down hill since FFX and FFXIII is pure crap, I'm so glad I didn't buy it. They aren't going to find their groove they suck now, it's time for people to stop buying games and let it die and make way for some new devs with potential.
If that is how you feel the you don't have to buy there games. You do know they sell in more places then America right. Japan loves there games and will always buy them along with me. Just get over it man, I don't see why you are so hurt by this.

Just don't buy the games bro . I am an actual fan of SQNX and I don't live my life with such low hope ad expectations like you. You must be bad in really life experiences man.. Lol
Um where has any article said that Japanese gamers liked FFXIII more then other gamers or anything said that for that matter (besides you)? Also high expectations after they failed so massively twice in a row is called being delusional. You are right I had low expectations for FFXIII and they still disappointed me beyond imagination.


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