Neoseeker.com Forum Thread: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak - page 3

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Author:   Shadow Rue
Date:   Oct 18, 06 at 11:56pm (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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quote am3930
Lets see...
A team that could easily beat the living ***** out of a team composed entirely of ninjas and knights. Lets assume that everyone is on the same level.

1)Rafa as a ninja/ heaven knight the infinite improbability drive will assure that everyone she targets will instantly be decimated (plus will trigger a glitch that will turn your two strongest charicters into a bowl of petunias and a sperm whale)

2) Properly conditioned Malak who is the same as Rafa

3) LG Cid as a ninja/holy swoardsman

4) Mustadio as a Chemist/ Engineer to delay as any attacks as possible

5) Beowulf as ninja/ temple knight who depending on your guys brave levels will ether decrease brave or increase faith

You always refered to them a a single class so, this is in case of no secondary. Most of them would be just as fast as your fastest and would have a much greater punch. In a sense you would be screwed.
Whoa there, spanky. No classes allowed but the defaults! As in, Heaven Knight and Hell Knight, no secondary abilities. Any support, reaction, and movement you choose. And ONLY Rafa and Malak. Of COURSE my party would get slaughtered if you brought in Orlandu and Beowulf, you mook!

My party will include 3 ninjas and 2 knights. Same level. Abilities will vary.



Author:   am3930
Date:   Oct 19, 06 at 8:35pm (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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So you expect 2 on 5. Hmmm... no classes but defaults. There is a diffrence. Rafa and Malak refer to charicters, and therefore class isn't specified. Oh well. Your being very curteous in requiring your forces to outnumber your opponents. How about this:
R and M along with 3 ninjas. I could make do with some others, but I don't feel like thinking too much.



Author:   am3930
Date:   Oct 19, 06 at 9:25pm (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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Oh yeah, and in case you couldn't tell I never was serious. This pvp stuff is not even worth thinking about. To many variables, to many things that could give one side an advantage. I assume you want equipment, and oh yeah, do you mind if all of your charicters start in a three foot deep hole that no one can escape from (without teleport or fly) and a compleatly empty inventory. Really considering your using ninjas you might want something in there. What quality? You know your not sticking the best stuff in there, and one last thing. Where in the game did you ever vaguely consider eqiping only a charicter's primary job skill. Even with a fresh level one charicter you get two choices.



Author:   Shadow Rue
Date:   Oct 21, 06 at 11:47am (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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Aw, don't be such a wimp! If Rafa and Malak are SOOOOOOO amazing, these odds should be a cakewalk for you.

Ok ok, want me to go easy on you?? Swap one ninja for Worker 8, and I wouldn't use Dispose.



Author:   am3930
Date:   Oct 21, 06 at 8:53pm (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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Who said that they're amazing. Underestimated yes, but don't expect miracles, and yes, under the right conditions you would be screwed. These conditions are unaceptable, but they exist.

I'm a wimp? Who's the one who insists on outnumbering their opponent 5 to 2?



Author:   Shadow Rue
Date:   Oct 22, 06 at 10:26pm (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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That's not being a wimp. It's showing you how crappy Rafa and Malak really are. If I'm such a wimp, then your Rafa and Malak could destroy me at my conditions.



Author:   am3930
Date:   Oct 23, 06 at 8:05pm (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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No, you are a wimp if you only allow yourself to take part in a battle where it would be extreamly difficult for you to lose. Perhaps if you cut down to 2 ninjas, or you had a serious handicap.



Author:   Shadow Rue
Date:   Oct 23, 06 at 11:20pm (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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Oh, then I guess your Rafa and Malak really do suck. Glad you finally admitted it.

While I'm basking in the glory of being right, lick my shoe. Worm.



Author:   am3930
Date:   Oct 24, 06 at 12:48am (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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Pay careful attention. I never said they suck. I said that I am not interested in using them alone in a fight where I am outnumbered, and I'm going against some of the best fighters in the game. You suck for being this agressive and getting in an argument in which you insist that an overpowered team can defeat two charicters. Though the funny thing is that they can defeat you in those conditions. Ready to learn how? It would still satisfy your conditions if none of your army had any eqipment at all.



Author:   am3930
Date:   Oct 24, 06 at 1:31am (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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The proposed battle wouldn't test whether or not R & M suck. It tests whether or not ninjas and knights suck. If you truely think R & M suck that badly then you'd be comfortable in the invers situation. 3 heven knights + 2 hell knights vs 1 ninja + 1 knight. The fact that you refuse to let conditions get anywhere near their proves that you don't think that they're as bad as you let on.



Author:   Shadow Rue
Date:   Oct 25, 06 at 12:55am (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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Ok, first of all: Stop double posting. It's annoying.

Secondly: You are missing the point.

IF YOUR RAFA AND MALAK ARE SO GOOD, THEN BEING OUTNUMBERED SHOULD MEAN NOTHING. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO VANQUISH ME IF I HAD 5 FIGHTERS, NO MATTER WHAT CLASS.
No equipment? Kill yourself, fool! I'd never!

?!? What?? It wouldn't test that at all! The whole point of the challenge is to show you that Rafa and Malak DO suck and aren't all-that-and-a-bag-of-chips like some people here make them out to be!
You don't get it. This isn't for MY comfort. If your Rafa and Malak are so good, you should ALWAYS be in comfort.

I do think they are in fact the worst in the entire game. But if you people here think they're so awesome and can pull off all sorts of crazy shit with them, then I want you all to prove it. And if they are as good as you make them out to be, then my proposed conditions should be nothing but a minor task to you.

There are only 2 ways out of the situation. You either
(A) Defeat me and prove me wrong, or
(B) Admit defeat and give up your foolish ideals of Rafa and Malak's perfection.



Author:   lady_lede
Date:   Oct 25, 06 at 8:57am (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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I think ill change job class and act Mediator. While it is an interesting debate, you both need to calm down a little.

Job class is only one factor in determining a class's superiority, to do this properly you would need to take into consideration reactions, equipment and secondary abilities as well.

Shadow, pitting two against five isnt a decent way to test if a class is superior. Rafa and Malak thrive under their own certain situations, not in the ones you decide to give them. Malak is stronger against those with high faith and Rafa is stronger against those with low faith. If we were playing by your rules i could say that Meliadoul was a pathetic character because she couldnt defeat four Red Chocobo's. But we both know she is a decent class as long as you are fighting human characters with equipement.

We can argue what class is best all day and night, but the fact remains, this is a game based on tactics, no one class can claim superiority alone. No, not even Orlandu. Even he can be decimated under the right conditions. The key here is tactics, while you might hate them and believe that they are completely useless, there are those who dont and are sucessful in using both of them.

Now there is no way for us to test whether or not you would be able to defeat one another because to my disappointment there is no FFT Online. So simply agree to disagree gentlemen ^^ ((or create FFT Online))




Author:   am3930
Date:   Oct 25, 06 at 9:00pm (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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Exactly, and by the way, #1 is not an option as their is no way to actually have this conflict. #2 also is not an option as that would be lying and lying is wrong.



Author:   Shadow Rue
Date:   Oct 26, 06 at 12:54am (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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Fools! Think me defeated? NEVER.



Author:   Stevebeoulve2
Date:   Oct 26, 06 at 5:22am (PST)
Subject:   re: For all those who hate Rafa and Malak
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quote Shadow Rue
(A) Defeat me and prove me wrong,
quote Shadow Rue
Fools! Think me defeated? NEVER.



Okay, first of all, we cannot do letter A. There is no way of doing a 2 player Final Fantasy Tactics. Quit living in your own little fantasy world and face the facts. Defeat you? Do you realize where you're at? A discussion board. Not a medieval land with mages and wizards. Calm down.



quote Shadow Rue
(B) Admit defeat and give up your foolish ideals of Rafa and Malak's perfection.


Like Lady_Lede said, we can argue all night about what's the best job in the game. The truth is, none of the jobs in the game are the best. Also, like Lady_Lede said, this game is based on tactics, hence Final Fantasy TACTICS. A Goblin can defeat a Ninja anytime, with the right tactics. Ninjas are not the best class. Samurais are not the best class. Not Orlandu. Not Ramza. Not Reis. Not Rafa. Not Malak. If cannot use your characters wisely, anyone can defeat them.


You're missing the whole point of this thread. The point is Rafa and Malak can be the worst characters if you don't level them up right. But they can be strong characters if take the time to level them up. The same goes for every other character in the game. Ninjas, Orlandu, Reis will never be strong without proper training.

Now that this was established, don't go on saying "Well my Ninjas can beat you 2 to 5." that is just immature. Quit saying that Rafa and Malak suck. Maybe they DO suck in YOUR game because you never level them up.

And before you go on saying we're wimps because we don't want to prove that Rafa and Malak can go against 5 Ninjas, we don't need to prove it. Ledy_Lede already said it was based on tactics. Rafa and Malak can beat 5 Ninjas if you use the right tactics against them. But the 5 Ninjas can beat Rafa and Malak as well, with the right tactics. Rafa/Malak have the same chances of beating the Ninjas as the Ninjas beating Rafa/Malak do.

And do not go on saying "I HAVE NOT BEEN DEFEATED" or "My ninjas are still stronger" because that is again immature. I've noticed your posting patterns and they are very predictable. If someone goes on saying Rafa and Malak or any other chracter CAN beat anyone with the right tactics, you go on talking about how superior your Ninjas are. When we prove you wrong again, you focus on your Ninja's strengths and you focus on Rafa/Malak's weaknesses. Hey, Ninjas do have weaknesses and flaws as well. And Rafa/Malak do have strengths as well. Quit your excuses.


quote Shadow Rue
Priests have Holy, protect, and shell.
Chemists have guns, and can plow through undead opponents like a hot knife through butter.

Both of which are better than Rafa and Malak.


This is an example. Yes, priests do have Holy, Protect, but they have weak defence. And Chemists, sure, they have guns that can beat people up. But the only way to damage a character is with a weapon (or secondary abilities, but if you get into that, you have to realize Rafa and Malak can use secondary abilities as well). and yes, potions hurt undead characters, but not humans. yet another flaw underneath the strengths. Rafa and Malak are not different either. They are extremely strong if you can level them up. Rafa's low brave is good for treasure hunting. Malak's low faith can defend against magic. But they have flaws too. Their attacks are a bit random, and sometimes they can be weak too (which is why you level them up). And their weapons are kind of weak too, but realize other classes have weak weapons too.


Now the only advice for you is to calm down, and quit thinking your Ninjas are the best in the world, realize all classes have flaws and strengths, and finally understand that anyone can beat anything with the right tactics.



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