Author: Mister MacPhisto
Date: Aug 27, 11 at 2:07am (PST)
Subject: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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DC has made a gutsy move. No doubt about it. Will Marvel follow suit at some point? Should they? You can bet they will be taking notice. Especially if DC carves away Marvel's lead in market share or surpasses them as they have done before.
But should Marvel follow suit? Frankly, I think they should and are long overdue. They've done piecemeal reboots and restarts here and there. And in a quite a few places it makes the whole needlessly complicated. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE both companies. And I love continuity. But when I can more easily explain the history of Donna Troy than the history of a character Marvel has showing up in film (I'm looking at you Ghost Rider) then something is MAJORLY wrong.
Now that doesn't mean the source material has to match up 100% with the movies but when there are glaring discrepancies, unaddressed issues, retcons, and changed origins... it makes things difficult.
Even moreso if someone's first Iron Man story is Technis, second is Ultimate, and third is Armor Wars. Not bad for the indoctrinated, but entry isn't as easy as it was when I was I kid... and I realized quickly I was coming into 20+ years of history. There's a difference in revelling in history and using it to enhance a story as opposed to using it as the vehicle to tell the story.
And it's not just characters like Ghost Rider who have gotten dicked up when looked at as a whole over multiple relaunches. Some still won't touch Spidey after OMD/BND, but I've been enjoying the character more than I have in YEARS.
Besides, Marvel is called the House of Ideas, and while we've seen some great stories in the past several years. When was the last time we saw new characters that generated interest? Alias and Runaways?
And while I love the Immortal Weapons, they are still derivative.
Why look for ANOTHER book to put Wolverine in as opposed to developing the next character of that level of popularity instead?
Author: BluePhoenix
Date: Aug 27, 11 at 2:17am (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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I agree that i like to see a general reboot, but if all the other Ultimate Marvel comics are gonna follow the same way that that ultimate spidey did then, quite frankly i'd like them to pull the plug.
Author: Faust
Date: Aug 27, 11 at 3:38am (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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Secret Warriors was awesome, and Initiative as well as Avengers Academy have gotten some decent followings. All that aside, I totally get what you're saying.
Do I think that they need to? Depends. At this point, it'd be like they're trying to play catch up, and would likely be seen as less of a big move, because DC already tested the waters for it. However, at the same time, there's little doubt that Marvel has been better at merchandising and advertising in recent years, so who knows? I don't think i'd be as much on board as I am with DC's, though.
I actually think they'd be better of focusing lines and making characters feel important. I love wolverine, but how awesome he is gets lost on me when I see him in a million books a month. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing, and that overexposure, I think personally, is hurting the character.
Author: Raijin1999
Date: Aug 28, 11 at 1:40pm (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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I'd say no - if anything trim the secondary/tertiary/etc lines for the same character. Like said, 700 wolverine comics is not a good thing. For one, continuity gets tossed down the drain. You have these big events going on like Fear Itself, yet its reflected in maybe one or two of five series. Trim it, and focus on giving other characters (individual chars or grouped into a team) more chances for growth. DC is doing this with the reboot, and it's one of the things that i'm looking forward to (once again the ol' wallet is going to get smacked around monthly).
Don't think Marvel needs a reboot, but streamlining to make it easier to track these characters AND track good talent from the bad (Who's the moron that does the ugly squishy face X-men comic art? He needs to be impaled. >=O ) could do the Marvel U some good.
Author: Darknet
Date: Sep 01, 11 at 2:33pm (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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One of the biggest differences between DC and Marvel is continuation. DC has had some many divergences, different origin stories, and random stuff that writers had to separate the differences by saying they are different worlds. I mean when you say there is a difference between a pre-crisis Batman and a post-crisis Batman, it can get a bit complicated. Marvel never had that. Marvel may have just as much history as DC but it's, for the most part, in one straight line. Not a straight line that branches off and then a line from nowhere merges with said line and a line also runs parallel with said main line.
Author: Faust
Date: Sep 01, 11 at 3:43pm (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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quote DarknetHeroes Reborn and One More Day.Marvel never had that. Marvel may have just as much history as DC but it's, for the most part, in one straight line. Not a straight line that branches off and then a line from nowhere merges with said line and a line also runs parallel with said main line.
There are also several instances of characters getting rebooted in Marvel. Anyone remember young Tony?
Author: Darknet
Date: Sep 01, 11 at 3:56pm (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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Which is why I said "for the most part".
The Heroes Reborn doesn't hold a candle to the fact that Hawkman and Donna Troy's origin stories are completely messed up. Or the fact that characters like Guy Garrick or Alan Scott were scrapped and then brought back and merged in to this universe. Or the shitty way to try and fix these events by sucker punching a wall of "reality". I don't want to even go in to the Crisis shit. What I'm trying to say is that, while Marvel has done this stuff before, it isn't done as much as DC who seem to just do it on purpose to try and confuse the hell out of all of us.
And the One More Day bit was an excuse to get rid of MJ.
Author: Raijin1999
Date: Sep 01, 11 at 4:41pm (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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Yet they haven't even removed MJ from the Marvel U is the ironic part.
Author: Mister MacPhisto
Date: Sep 01, 11 at 5:27pm (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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quote ByzantineDon't get me started on Crossing/Timeslide.quote DarknetHeroes Reborn and One More Day.Marvel never had that. Marvel may have just as much history as DC but it's, for the most part, in one straight line. Not a straight line that branches off and then a line from nowhere merges with said line and a line also runs parallel with said main line.
There are also several instances of characters getting rebooted in Marvel. Anyone remember young Tony?
And other retcons/continuity adjustments give us things like Ghost Rider being confusing as hell as I mentioned, original Torch/Vision shenanigans, 50's Cap not being Steve even though it was, Tony's switched origin from Vietnam to Afghanistan, Spidey Chapter One, Marvel: Lost Generation, Nate Grey's existence, Phoenix (Rachael), Spidey/Ezekiel, 2 pre-Steve Caps, 1001 personalities of the Hulk, etc, etc, etc.
I could go on.
Amazing Spidey has had 2 numbering changes (relaunch and then shift to original numbering) and 3 continuity retcons in the past 13 years. Also, in that span of time, we've seen someone else as Spidey (and if we want to go back about 16-17 years back with the Clone Saga we can add ANOTHER continuity retcon AND someone else as Spidey). And that's the company's main character. So to say Marvel doesn't do it as much as DC really isn't the case.
The difference is Marvel is just as guilty, but they do it piecemeal.
So Darknet, reading this...
quote Darknetand keeping in mind what I said... toss out Earth-2 naming and such, and it's all the same problems. Difference is, DC addressed by saying different worlds were involved, Marvel AT BEST simply ignored it. REPEATEDLY.One of the biggest differences between DC and Marvel is continuation. DC has had some many divergences, different origin stories, and random stuff that writers had to separate the differences by saying they are different worlds. I mean when you say there is a difference between a pre-crisis Batman and a post-crisis Batman, it can get a bit complicated. Marvel never had that. Marvel may have just as much history as DC but it's, for the most part, in one straight line. Not a straight line that branches off and then a line from nowhere merges with said line and a line also runs parallel with said main line.
Author: Darknet
Date: Sep 01, 11 at 6:01pm (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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Hmm perhaps. I dunno. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong but, in my eyes, Marvel was always a lot more simple that DC.
Author: Mister MacPhisto
Date: Sep 01, 11 at 6:46pm (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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quote DarknetOnly because the alternate realities and time travel bit has primarily been confined to Avengers, X-Men, and Fantastic Four.Hmm perhaps. I dunno. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong but, in my eyes, Marvel was always a lot more simple that DC.
But then you still have stuff like Punisher killing himself, comig back as a servant of Heaven, rejecting that, and later becoming Frankenstein.
Author: Faust
Date: Sep 01, 11 at 10:44pm (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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quote Mister MacPhistoLol, that shit was *bleep*ing hilarious.But then you still have stuff like Punisher killing himself, comig back as a servant of Heaven, rejecting that, and later becoming Frankenstein.
No, seriously though, Marvel is just as confusing and has plots that are just crazy. Don't even get me started on the Clone Saga, or Major Victory, or House of M. Shit gets just as crazy with Marvel, to be honest.
Both companies borrow from the same bag of tricks. The only real difference is aesthetic flavor, and even then, there's an awful lot of overlap.
Author: walnuts
Date: Sep 01, 11 at 11:58pm (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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If the DC revival takes off in a big way, I reckon I can guarantee Marvel will do the same. I know for me personally that years of continuity put me off big time, which is why at the start of the year when I got back in to comics in a big way, I only bought stories that were starting at #1. I've been fortunate enough to find some great books this way, but it is daunting for a new reader to go in to a book store, look at Action Comics #700 and not bother, simply because they have no freaking clue what happened in the first 699 issues.
However, by putting shiny #1's on the news stand, I think it'll give the casual bystander more inclination to pick it up and start reading.
Author: Mister MacPhisto
Date: Sep 02, 11 at 1:55am (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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Byzantine, I guess you'll be amused to know a buddy of mine once referred to Avengers Forever as Crisis of Infinite Avengers?
And I'm surprised neither of us mentioned Counter-Earth already!
Author: Warp
Date: Sep 02, 11 at 2:16am (PST)
Subject: re: Should Marvel also do a linewide relaunch/reboot?
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Way I see it, a relaunch is inevitable for Marvel in one form or another, just because a sliding timeline is a huge factor in order to keep the characters young and relatable to the new generation of readers for the future.
If they're gonna do a relaunch, I want Marvel to put more focus in their cosmic universe. There's so much potential in that line and compared to DC, DC blows them out of the water and feels like their universe is better interconnected whilst Marvel Cosmic and Marvel Earth barely seem to clash, if at all.