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Neoseeker Forums » » » » Rage of Bahamut » ☣☣☣☣☣☣☣☣☣☣ Avoiding Scams 101 (FOR DUMMIES) ☣☣☣☣☣☣☣☣☣☣ » Post Reply

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Sep 13, 12 at 11:56amBattleAres

I have setup a mini guideline of what to do / not-do so everyone on Neoseeker can benefit, and enjoy a scam-free trade environement.

(Please feel free to add any input and I will modify the context accordingly)
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Procedures to follow as a Seller through PayPal

1. Settle an agreement over the price (include Currency) for the item and document it.
2. Request verified paypal email address from the buyer.
3. Request buyer to confirm the verified email address by sending a short email to your verified email address. (*see reference below for example)
4. Create an Invoice for the transaction and send to buyer
5. When creating an Invoice, there is a little disclaimer box. Make sure you note buyer assumes all responsibility and liability pertaining to this transaction - No refund / No cancellation / No charge-back.
6. Once the item is transferred, receive confirmation through email (best) or PM from the buyer they have received the goods.
7. Document all this and input the documetns in created folder with the date of the transaction.

*I (buyer's full name) hereby confirm this email address is rightfully mine, and I give my full consent to (seller's full name and verified paypal email address) pay the amount of (amount decided in exact Currency).

If you have followed these instructions, you are FULLY COVERED under Paypal Seller Protection.
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Warning against Account Purchasing

Due to the recent trade ban, the only effective way of selling is providing the account as a whole. I am aware a lot of users are irate about the conduct of Cygames and Mobage, and they are selling accounts as they are quitting the game for good. However, I am starting to notice a lot of suspicious sellers as well.

There is some serious risk involved, so all users must do this at their own discretion:

1. Any accounts tied to Facebook can and will be reversed to the original seller, even if you replace the email and password. There is no way for the buyer to verify if an account is in fact tied to the sellers Facebook account. As Mobage does not permit account / items selling, there is no way for the buyer to retrieve the account once called back.

2. Accounts can be logged on from multiple devices at once, and the seller can choose to stay logged on the account even after the account has been sold. The buyer may decide to change information such as password once purchased, however, the seller who is still logged on can easily modify the primary email and reset the new password by clicking on password retrieve (which will be sent to the new email address modified). Remember, you do not need a password to modify the primary email on the Mobage account.
*A note on this. ibezee confirmed the account can be logged off on all devices if the UDID is changed from one end.

3. This isn't confirmed (but has validity). Few have told me Mobage will always provide the account information, and reset the password if the original account holder emails from the initial email address used upon account creation. Once again, as Mobage does not accept Account selling, they will simply consider this as an act of "account hacking" and will side with the Seller.

As you can see, the buyer has absolutely no power in retaining the account that is purchased. Especially with the trade lock, and the bazaar system, the buyer has no way of transferring the items to their account in time before an account is re-called.

I suggest all account buyers conduct transactions with precautions, and take measures to ensure they are protected from possible scams.
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Warning against transferring Items via Bazaar

With the new system up, a lot of players are eager to transfer items between accounts, or use the "loophole" in the Bazaar system by placing bogus normal / High normal cards in exchange for cards you wish to transfer (or cards you are selling to a buyer).

In a perfect world, you would be placing a Hamsa, and you would construct your wishlist for example 1000 HP + Legend Cerberus. Now you're thinking, there is no way in hell a person would take that trade but me (to transfer items / cards), and if in a blue moon someone pays that for my Hamsa, I will gladly take it!

Well here are reasons why you should avoid this at all cost:

1. Your search results are filtered (this is mentioned on the Bazaar guide as well). This means you have a chance of not being able to view the posting you made from another account.

2. People have started browsing normal / high-normal tabs in search for these lopsided trades. If they suspect someone is transferring cards these ways, they will place a duplicate trade up in the bazaar. The fact that you CANNOT see the seller's name until the purchase is made is what they'll try to take advantage of. I have already seen a victim of this, so please be careful.

3. Buyers can easily claim the item was not retrieved by them (and sometimes it may be true), in which then the Seller will be in a position to refund the full amount, or the buyer can file a charge back (even if they did receive the items). The reverse can as well be applied, and the seller may claim they listed on the bazaar as discussed and someone already purchased it. The uncertainty of this method is a huge liability.

I understand everyone is anxious to sell cards, however, it is better to be safe and wait the probation period than to have yourself get scammed this way.
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Ways to ensure you are safe while performing a trade on Neoseeker

- If you are unsure of the buyer / seller, always use a Middle Men. There are few noted, and trustworthy middle men in Neoseeker at your disposal. The main ones being ibezee and dgtlmonk @:

- Just because a person is new to the forum does not necessarily mean they are a scammer, however, it is always safe to sell to trusted, and long time members of Neoseeker. If a trusted member offers you $100.00 less than a brand new member, or a guest, I strongly suggest you to bite the immediate profit lost and go with the sure money in the pocket.

- Please do not deal directly by email. Always make sure the user responds in the forum at least once. This adds an extra filter which you can verify suspicious users with their IP and match with blacklisted members.

- Please verify through PM if any person claims they are someone from the forum by a different source such as email. Impersonation has occurred in the past and it is highly-likely to repeat.

- Do not make PARTIAL transactions. Give me half -> I'll give you the goods -> Then you give me the rest is the oldest scamming trick in the book. If they can't get the full, they want to resort to at least half. If any instance such as this occurs, please make sure to suggest a use of Middle Men.

- It is strongly recommended that you use an Alt account for transactions performed on Neoseeker. It is a fact people have not been penalized yet, however, it doesn't necessarily guarantee Mobage will not start sniffing around to lift the ban hammers against Cash Traders in the near future.

- Join the Neoseeker inter-network. It takes 2 weeks to be fully approved, but once in, you will have access to hundreds of sellers / buyers, and trusted Middle Men will be ready to assist you with your trades to ensure safety and satisfaction. Get more detailed information here!
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Here is to hoping a friendly, safe, and trustworthy environment in Neoseeker!

Thread Recap (last 10 posts from newest to oldest)

Aug 7, 13 at 9:42pm

I noticed no one responded to daaznson.
Paypal will not enforce an intangible goods/virtual items trade. If you think so then call them yourself directly and ask them. If you get an operator that says yes tell them to email that to you, I bet they get a supervisor that says no. I lost over $1300 cash on virtual items in multiple trades from buying and selling. I had bought some virtual goods from one guy and when I did a dispute, he simply replied "intangible goods." They did there normal bs of nothing and weeks later ruled in his favor. Even though I had screen shots and emails supporting them stating they didnt have the items. Point blank I ended up going to visa card services with the bank and 45 days later i did get that one back. On all the others the bank and paypal said I had authorized the transaction and they didnt support intangible goods.
On most of the other situations the other party claimed someone hacked their account and sent money, so paypal took it back from me. Even though once again I had screenshots, it was intangible goods.
Now what may work is the gifting idea, and calling paypal to call the sender to verify directly it is them so they cant dispute this later. Issue there is if the guy in game doesnt send the item, you have absolutely no recourse. The only way Ild consider this is if the item was already moving in trade, and hope that screenshots are enough if the seller tries to pull a scam stating he didnt get money etc.
There is no guarantee, I have a law degree and point blank the only way you can do anything is to go file a civil claim, which we all know will cost you much much more. Especially considering you will have to find out where the other party lives then go file appropriate paper work in their county to start a civil suit. Then what hang out till court date, then they continue lol? Sometimes a judge may grant reimbursement on lost expenses but thats like going to Vegas thinking your going to leave with their money.
Again if you do a paypal trade you need to at least call paypal and have them verify directly the sender of the funds; or have the other party call. Sometimes paypal doesnt like disturbing their clients and calling and the sender of payment needs to call; then you call to verify this was done. Alot of bs to an already bs situation of hoping your stuff isnt taken by the people middling.
Hope this helps, Im an active member in the BBB, and deal with IC3, FBI, and other agencies to help prevent fraud. As a corporate owner I deal with this crap every month.
Understand when I do trades I actually video the conversation live so that they know it wasnt cut/pasted etc. This didnt change the outcome at all. Every case I lost, and I finally asked the fraud team supervisor if they where affiliated with enron; which they didnt take to well. Ive lost nearly 3000 in the last 18 months with them recouped all but 1300 of it. They tried taking it back and couldnt since my bank denied that, so they took it upon themselves to sell to a 3rd party collections. The collections placed on my credit report which I had over turned after alot of bs with the 3 credit reporting agences. Paypal had no legal gounds to claim or say I owed them money when I had offered evidence that I had fulfilled my end of the contract. They refused to accept it, and even though they dont support virtual items trades the state of California does recognize a contract. Paypal takes it upon themselves to make their own laws and enforce such illegally.
On the issue where the guy simply replied intangible goods in the dispute, I filed a complaint with the BBB. Thing is upon filing a BBB report I noticed there was 10-11 other reports filed against this company all with the same issues with paypal. Now if 10 people took the time to research and file a report in their district of the BBB, then that means an estimated 90-100 people didnt report or know how to report. Yet, they still sent money to the guy. In my final report dealing with paypal to IC3 and the FBI, I had written it was evident that Paypal supports fraud knowingly and hides behind it as an excuse.
Guys its not hard to research the major issues with paypal, and all the reports related to paypal and virtual items. I just hate to see anyone go though the mess I did for a year with them. I had used them to send in excess of $70000 over the last 7 years with no issues. I like their claim to fame of ebay buyer protection, when it is ebay that is actually doing the ebay protection. Paypal hides behind alot of ideas and claims as their own. I will on the other hand note I have never had an issue with paypal and ebay that wasnt dealt with according to law and was handled correctly.

Jun 14, 13 at 9:34pm

Wow... very lop-sided. No buyer protection.

Jun 11, 13 at 9:40pm

Very useful post for lurkers like me. Been referring to Jeenx's guide to make sure I don't get screwed over, but had no idea how to unload my cards. Guess I'll opt for a middle man since I'm a noob here.

Few other points that would be helpful:
1) How does one go about making additional (dummy) accounts to facilitate a trade?
2) What is all this talk about Line/Kik/Heroes Unlimited?

From what I've read up to this point, the answer to #1 is use another device (i.e. tablet, ipod, etc.). Unfortunately I don't have another working device that can play WoH. Also, the answer to #2 seems to be some sort of messaging app that I'm sure I'll find on the Play store if I search for it. As for the "Heroes Unlimited" thing, I'm guessing that's an alliance that helps facilitate trades, but I don't even know how to request a team member from them since members are no public knowledge. Bah... I'll figure this stuff out sooner or later.

Apr 27, 13 at 12:59pm


Mar 28, 13 at 12:39am

Looking to buy cards, via Paypal

Feb 13, 13 at 5:51am

This thread is awesome...more educated now on trading within WoH...Thanks all for the time and input..awesome for WoH noobs like me How do I keep in touch in neoseeker with all in this least to follow ur posts...thx 4 sharing

Feb 12, 13 at 4:40pm

Hmmm I was just wondering because it seems Paypal Seller Protection doesn't protect intangible goods so how can you be covered if you are trying to sell a card on say WoH?

Feb 12, 13 at 3:40pm

Thanks for this information. There is a lot that I didn't know on there. Especially about the account scamming. wish jerks didn't have to ruin everything.

Jan 25, 13 at 4:01am

I'm sorry, but what is the UDID?

Nov 23, 12 at 1:40pm

Can I ask how you can actually log out everyone from an account if you changed the UDID? I didn't understand that part.

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