The other day, a hacker joined the room where I was (afk) then joined the quest where some of you were. Everyone quit the quest, blocked him, then moved to another georama, but my avatar was still in the room and I've been able to read what they talked about afterward : I like to see what people really think, it can reveal things you wouldn't guess alone.
So, it seem we're the bad guys because we're refusing his "help" . I think he didn't appreciate at all everyone leaving on his sight, I'm sure he didn't expect that.
Now, about the debate, why do you think they feel the need to help with a hacked character instead of a regular one ? I mean, using this kind of character doesn't help other players to learn how to play. A character like that can solo every single quest in the game, the other players only need to watch him roll on everything. Next time they do the same quest with regular players, they won't even know if the boss is strong before being under its attacks. Maybe they think "I'm gr30, I'm supposed to be strong, I can't fail a quest, I'd look weak". Too bad, failing is also a way to learn how the game works, using overpowered characters to avoid a failure won't help other players once there's no hacker around to help. I think the game is pretty boring to play for them, they don't need to protect themselves nor their allies, they just need to spam one attack until the monster dies.
I'll refute now an argument I'm sure to see in this topic : "but when you're using a gr30 avatar to help gr15 players, it's the same." No, it's not. I know I'm overpowered in gr15 quests, but who isn't anyway ? This gr15 player won't stay gr15 for long, and the higher his gr will become, the closest he'll be to obtain a similar strength. Even if I do every quest with him, he'll learn how to stay alive, support his allies...etc, because I'm not overpowered for the game. When playing with hackers, they don't even need to take their weapons to win, there's no way they can learn how to play like that.
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." - Chinese Proverb
So, your thought about why they do that ? Keep the insults away, I don't want the topic to be locked in 3 posts.
Thread Recap (last 10 posts from newest to oldest)
Jul 03, 12 at 10:42am
TheHighlander
Re-framing the discussion is traditionally a tactic used to diminish the debate... The original question relates to a broader question than skinning characters.
Jul 03, 12 at 9:42am
Darkari
true the glitch there talking about doesn't exist though the lagswitch 1 is straight out cheating which they could of been trying to cover it up what they meant i could say this i know a way of getting any gems i want but what i really mean is i know a way of getting as many tokens as i want which would result in me getting any gems i want
now lets change the discussion to skin mods i personally don't see any harm in them
i think the lag switch glitch and what arieta is talking about, are two different things. i don't know how the glitch (or glitches) work but using a lag switch wouldn't guarantee getting 5 rares from 5 tokens or 4 rares from 4 tokens and it would be more random
Exactly. A guarantee that # rares = # of tokens used is different than just getting extra tokens. Getting one Pisces or Virgo for each token used does not seem like a normal "glitch" to me.
Jun 27, 12 at 10:07am
vaskov17
i think the lag switch glitch and what arieta is talking about, are two different things. i don't know how the glitch (or glitches) work but using a lag switch wouldn't guarantee getting 5 rares from 5 tokens or 4 rares from 4 tokens and it would be more random
i do know what glitch your talking about but honestly its a glitch that cant be fixed because the glitch relies on router and timing if any1s familiar with lagswitch works you'll understand completely
I've mentioned lagswitches before, in a different context, but many here seemed unfamiliar with them. As I said though, there are easier ways to get extra items than messing with the networking. If you really want extra tokens for your guild, buy an extra geonet license...
Jun 27, 12 at 3:11am
Darkari
i do know what glitch your talking about but honestly its a glitch that cant be fixed because the glitch relies on router and timing if any1s familiar with lagswitch works you'll understand completely
I think the same, that's why this topic is named like that. Everyone has his own opinion about what they can tolerate in game or not.
For example, I'll play with players having regular gear and stats, but not with someone using Grigori armor or over 10000atk. The 3 locked armors give stats you can't find on other equipments (two parts of grigori give DEX+STR) and stats over 1000 everywhere is completely breaking the game.
Some players aren't bothered with that, but it bothers me, this debates has no end.
Everyone: With the topic turning to this, does it mean our debate is over?
You mean the eternal debate over what is, and is not cheating and whether cheating is, or is not wrong?
I think that debate is never ending. That said, as soon as people stop talking about the principles and start focusing in on specific instances it's difficult to continue debate because you get into very narrow issues of rule rather than broader issues of principle. Principles should be easy to uphold and difficult to knock down. In my experience though, there is a tendency to slice away principles piece by piece by focusing in on isolated and specific instances and rules.
It almost like being a parent in a way. My teenage son has a tendency to use the expression "this one time" when launching into an explanation of why exactly he abandoned all common sense and principle and did something he knew was wrong. Rather than simply admit the wrong and apologizing he will cite some tiny instance that happened years ago that he somehow remembers in great detail. He'll lean on that one example as his crutch for why he did whatever it was, despite having been told innumerable times not to. That one instance outweighs all the parenting and principle in the world.
The true answer is invariably that it was more convenient and easier to do the wrong thing and ask for forgiveness instead of seeking permission in the knowledge that it would not be given.
So, no matter how principles, morals or common sense apply, those that wish to will focus on some narrow point that allows them to rationalize their conduct as being OK. Except of course, it's not....and so the debate continues....like sands through the hourglass...
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