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hideOriginal Post

Sep 12, 11 at 3:34amFury


I'm curious to see how you guys feel about which direction this game should head, as far as some of the core gameplay mechanics go. Melee was arguably the most advanced fighting game of all time, in respect to the extremes of strategy and skill that the game could be taken to. Brawl obviously dumbed a lot of things down while still keeping the same general concept, all in an attempt to attract a more casual crowd.

Some of these changes include: less hitstun, no L-canceling, easier shorthopping, slower fall speeds, air dodges don't put you in helpless state, backwards ledge grabs, easier to influence direction when getting hit (DI), etc.

My feeling toward this has always been that Smash is inherently an easy game to figure out at the basic level, therefore you may as well attract both the casual and competitive crowd by making the game open to being more competitive. The people who don't intend to take the game to a competitive level can do so, regardless of how advanced the game can potentially be. However, the competitive crowd will always be limited by the game. So if you want to attract both audiences, always side with the competitive crowd.

Now, I don't personally believe SSB4 necessarily needs to completely to revert to Melee's ways. But there's some things that are real killers to the competitive scene. The lack of hitstun and fall speed makes it impossible to do any "true" combos. There's also little punishment for shielding, spot-dodging, or air-dodging anymore. These things combined make it an extremely defensive game, where the metagame has evolved to having excessive camping. It's almost like the player with the least amount of patience is the one that ends up losing. It's a lot more boring to play, and definitely a lot more boring to watch.

If they can at least change those things, I really believe the game would be a lot better off. Sakurai will probably never attempt Melee 2.0, but I'm hoping he'll at least take something from Melee, due to a lot negative response to Brawl.

Thread Recap (last 10 posts from newest to oldest)

Jul 07, 12 at 7:04pm
GaTheZakk


I like Melee, but I like Brawl just a bit more!
It has more options, better music, more characters to choose from, Ganondorf looks cooler, Zelda's not blonde, and most of all awesome graphics, great job Brawl!



Jan 26, 12 at 3:25am
NapoleonDos


GO BACK TO MELEE

But why stop there? Improve upon that dynamic with even greater variance and versatility. Add more abilities to characters, more signature ideas to what makes SSB special, other gages and measurement tools which could enable more complex gameplay.

Hell, add in another button for attacks so we can see the characters utilize more special moves.

Dont stop trying to make the game better. Sure, there will be some misses, but let's get as much changed in the game as we did between 64 and Melee, and in only two years development, to make this a remarkable game.



Jan 25, 12 at 5:21pm
BlueLore


I am for a more brawlish game,because I play very often with people who don't have the game and it is already a problem that I am far better than my friends.



Jan 25, 12 at 6:08am
Fury


quote Random hero jr
If it was up to me, I'd give SSB4 a bit more accessibility.

Perhaps a setting that changes how the game mechanics work. Between something that leans more towards a competitive environment for tournaments & 1v1's etc.

And another more for those that enjoy FFA's with a group of friends/love using items/less experienced/simply don't care etc. You get the point.

Of course, this idea isn't perfect, I didn't think about it much, just typed this as it popped into my head.

My point is, maybe it might cause a bit less hatred towards the game that Brawl was getting for being "too casual".

I think being able to adjust the settings would work quite well. Halo is another favorite series of mine, and the constructors of the competitive scene for Halo take huge advantage of the game's custom options. They boost walking speed, change weapon layout, damage, etc, all in order to make it more fair and competitive.

The Smash competitive community has been much the same, just not with as many options. But if there were more, then they could surely agree on a stable ruleset within a short time frame.

Obviously, forcing players to get used to the settings that greatly differ from default gameplay is always a concern. But as long as the ruleset would remain stable, that shouldn't be a problem.

quote VainAttempts
I heard somewhere Melee wasn't supposed to be competitive, some of the elements that made it competitive were an accident. Thus, they were removed from it's sequel, Brawl.
Really, the only thing I can think of that fits that would be wavedashing. In Melee, when you air-dodged, you could alter the direction your character went as they were air-dodging. What the developers never realized was that by doing this you could air-dodge right into the ground, thus making your character move forward along the ground without walking or running, allowing you to move on the ground and attack at the same time. That was clearly not their intention.

Everything else I would imagine was intentional in Melee. Other advanced techniques really couldn't have been programmed into the game without the developers knowing full well of how it could be utilized, because they were put in exactly for that purpose.

When you just think about the basic things like the speed of the game, I think it's clear they wanted to attract competitive players.



Jan 16, 12 at 6:23pm
RandomHeroJr


If it was up to me, I'd give SSB4 a bit more accessibility.

Perhaps a setting that changes how the game mechanics work. Between something that leans more towards a competitive environment for tournaments & 1v1's etc.

And another more for those that enjoy FFA's with a group of friends/love using items/less experienced/simply don't care etc. You get the point.

Of course, this idea isn't perfect, I didn't think about it much, just typed this as it popped into my head.

My point is, maybe it might cause a bit less hatred towards the game that Brawl was getting for being "too casual".




Dec 01, 11 at 12:55am
Kinetic


To me Melee is one of the best fighting games ever made. It's fast pace makes it much more enjoyable in my opinion. While I loved Brawl for everything it did right, I still enjoy Melee ten times more.

In fact, I am still playing Melee, while I haven't touched Brawl in quite some time. So, as you can tell, I would much rather SSB4 lean more in the direction of Melee in terms of gameplay.

Of course there are some things I expect to return from Brawl as well. A good single player mode, more items, final smashes, stickers, etc. If they combined the best aspects of both games, it would be magnificent.




Dec 01, 11 at 12:34am
VainAttempts


I heard somewhere Melee wasn't supposed to be competitive, some of the elements that made it competitive were an accident. Thus, they were removed from it's sequel, Brawl.



Nov 18, 11 at 3:56pm
shayne


brawl and melee were almost on same levels for me, but i'd have to say i liked melee a little more
i don't know, maybe i just had super high expectations for brawl or something and melee was just a breath of fresh air

in any case, i'd like to see them introduce a good story and new characters
hopefully there won't be any super rigged characters but i just want a fun game to play :L



Oct 14, 11 at 4:30am
Chrono


I'm hoping SSB4 is more like Melee than Brawl, but I thoroughly enjoyed both of them. I don't really worry too terribly much about the competitive aspect of things, but Melee does cater better to the competitive player, and I did enjoy it slightly more.

My favorite SSB will always be SSB64, however, it was just so raw and straight forward (not that the latest ones aren't).

I'm really curious for information in this game and I'll be on the lookout, posting anything that I can dig up here



Sep 15, 11 at 12:06am
unown warrior


I would like it to be significantly different from both because I like how each smash bros game has a different style.I think I would prefer it to be a bit more brawlish if I had to choose though.



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