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Apr 01, 10 at 6:09pmUlairi


My son is at the third Gym in Soul Silver and we're wanting to optomize his team for the E4/Champion encounter (because we've learnt our lesson - he's stuck that that level on Pearl due to his team being not well matched).

In SS he already has a Cyndaquil/Quilava/Typhlosion, a Totodile/Croconaw/Feraligatr and a Mareep/Flaffy/Ampharos. Therefore, we're looking to utilize these types (Fire, Water and Electric) and round the team out.

I have looked at E4 weaknesses and other advice on the web and come up with the following assessment:

Will – Psychic Pokemon. Need Bug, Electric and Fire. Electric for Slowbro and the two Xatus. Bug for Exeggutor. Fire for Jynx.

Koga – Poison Pokemon. Need Fire and Psychic. Fire for Forretress. Psychic for the other four. Fire can also be used against Venomoth and Ariados. Electric can also take down Crobat.

Bruno – Fighting Pokemon. Need Psychic and Water. Water for Onix. Psychic for the other four.

Karen – Dark Pokemon. Need Bug or Fighting/Psychic/Water/ Electric. Bug or fighting for Umberon. Water for Houndoom. Psychic for Vileplume and Gengar. Electric for Murkrow.

Lance – Dragon Pokemon. Need Electric and Ice. Electric type for Gyardos, Charizard and Aerodactyl (with water type another possibility for the latter two). Ice for the three Dragonites.

This then suggests the need for the following:

1. Fire : Cyndaquil/Quilava/Typhlosion
2. Water: Totodile/ Croconaw/Feraligatr (with an ice move)
3. Electric : Mareep/Flaffy/Ampharos
4. Psychic : (looking to get Natu/Xatu to use Fly out of battle. Not until Ruins of Alph - Fog Badge needed so AFTER the 6th Gym (or maybe from Pokewalker). Will use a HM slave (probably Muckrow) for fly in the meantime until he gets the Natu
5. Bug or Fighting (intend to go and headbutt for a Heracross)
6. 6th slot is reserved for a newly-caught Gible that we're transfering over from Pearl.

Questions:

1. Is this team a good balance? Note that this structure flys in the face of some of the advice on the web (e.g. advice that you need a Fighting type for the E4)

2. What is the implications if we dispense with the Bug / Fighting type, possibly to use a dedicated Ice type (Dewgong or Lapras)? Looking at the weaknesses of the E4, dropping the bug/fighting only leaves a gap against Karen's level 42 Umbreon. Could he get through Umbreon with a sufficiently levelled type that Umbreon is not weak to?

3. Is Feraligatr (currently at Croconaw), with a single ice move going to be able to handle those dragons? (noting that we will have a Garchomp as back-up). Our plan is to stick with his current Ice Fang (65PP, 95% accuracy) and swap it out for TM 13 Ice Beam (95PP 100% accuracy)once he gets it.

4. Ampharos is sloooow. Intend to give him a quick claw to help a bit. Will he be able to handle E4?

5. Are there any HMs that we'll need throughout the game that these Poke's won't cover?

Other suggestions or critique welcome. Thanks.

Thread Recap (last 10 posts from newest to oldest)

Oct 05, 12 at 3:04pm
The DEUCE


My team wasn't really built specifically for the E4 or wifi battling, I just felt like running a playthrough with some my favorite pokemon.

1: Typhlosion
Swift
Lava Plume
Flamethrower
Headbutt

2: Pidgeot
Roost
Fly
Quick Attack
Wing Attack

3: Espeon
Psybeam
Swift
Last Resort
Shadow Ball

4: Gyarados (HM Slave, good enough for most in-game pokemon)
Ice Fang
Waterfall
Surf
Whirlpool

Heracross
Close Combat
Brick Break
Ariel Ace
Shadow claw

Tyranitar
Crunch
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Dragon Claw

All of 'em were level 50 by my first run at E4, except obviously for tyranitar, who was level 55. Tyranitar made quick work of Will, Espeon and typhlosion destroyed koga's team, while'st heracross and espeon took down bruno. Karen was pretty easy too, heracross took down all of here team, except for vileplume, which gyarados took with ice fang. Lance's hardest pokemon for me to defeat, was surprisingly gyarados, since I didn't have any electric attacks at that time, so I just overpowered it with my own gyarados. From then on, it was pretty easy. Aerodactyl can't take hits very well, so gyarados knocked it out with one ice fang, His charizard couldn't take tyranitar's stone edge, so there's that. I just spammed dragon claw on his 3 dragonite.



Jun 13, 11 at 5:08am
bubbagump589


I beat the E4 Using this team:

Typhlosion
Flame Wheel
Lava Plume
Flamethrower
Quick Attack

Golem
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Rollout
Double-Edge

Gyarados
Bite
Ice Fang
Aqua Tail
Surf

Ho-Oh
Sacred Fire
Brave Bird
AncientPower
Flamethrower

Lugia
Extasensory
Fly
Hydropump
Hydro Pump
Aeroblast

Raikou
Discharge
Thunderbolt
Thunder Fang
Crunch

Yes i know i overused legendaries but Ho-Oh can be switched with murkrow, noctowl, or pidgey to avoid the ghosts.
Lugia can be switched with Alakazam, or Slowking.
Raikou can be switched with ampharos or anyone w/ decent SATK, that can learn elec. moves.

Also i would reccomend getting a Tyranitar over a Golem if possible pre e4, if not then post e4 with this moveset:

Tyranitar
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Crunch
Stone Edge



Apr 07, 10 at 9:42pm
Ulairi


quote The Deathwind
I'm fairly sure it's not that simple. You're using the bases, which aren't concrete on the Pokemon- they just act as a part of calculating the stats and are also influenced by the Pokemon's IVs, EVs and natures.

After actually running some calculations with more likely stats, yes, Ice Beam is slightly better overall, but Ice Beam has a few problems. namely;

1. You're either waiting until late Kanto (Seafoam Islands) or playing a lot of Voltorb Flip, whereas the thing learns Ice Fang naturally.
2. Ice Fang also has the chance of causing the opponent to flinch, which whule nort dealbreaking is a nice bonus.
3. Ice Fang has higher PP (and please do not use PP as a term for move strength, that is Base Power. PP is used in the game as how many times the move can be used and honestly is the meaning we're used to using.) Considering that ethers and Elixirs are in short supply, I'd take the extra 5 PP on a sufficently powerful move than less PP.
Okay - thanks. Phew, there's more to this the deeper you go. While using the av. stats is probably as good as you're gonna get for assessment, when you factor in the added benefit of 10% chance of flinching, that Ice Beam is theoretically only 10% more powerful and the cost of buying Ice Beam, Ice Fang it is!



Apr 07, 10 at 9:37pm
The Deathwind


quote Ulairi
Okay, please bear with me cause I'm a noob. If you multiply the PP for each move by the respective average starting stat for Fealigatr, it appear to suggest that Ice Beam is superior:

Ice Fang 65 PP x 105 (av. STAT for Attack) = 6825
Ice Beam 95 PP x 79 (av. STAT for Sp. Attack) = 7505

Am I missing something and is it not that simple?
I'm fairly sure it's not that simple. You're using the bases, which aren't concrete on the Pokemon- they just act as a part of calculating the stats and are also influenced by the Pokemon's IVs, EVs and natures.

After actually running some calculations with more likely stats, yes, Ice Beam is slightly better overall, but Ice Beam has a few problems. namely;

1. You're either waiting until late Kanto (Seafoam Islands) or playing a lot of Voltorb Flip, whereas the thing learns Ice Fang naturally.
2. Ice Fang also has the chance of causing the opponent to flinch, which whule nort dealbreaking is a nice bonus.
3. Ice Fang has higher PP (and please do not use PP as a term for move strength, that is Base Power. PP is used in the game as how many times the move can be used and honestly is the meaning we're used to using.) Considering that ethers and Elixirs are in short supply, I'd take the extra 5 PP on a sufficently powerful move than less PP.




Apr 07, 10 at 9:12pm
Ulairi


quote liion
^the absolute PP? You lost me.
I was meaning the PP posted for each move. My bad.

quote liion
Where is Ice Beam? I beat Red, with no ice beam to be found.
costs 10,000 at Goldenrod. Maybe not worth it for the 10% extra oomph over Ice Fang, especially if Ice Fang is good enough to one-hit Lance's dragons?



Apr 07, 10 at 8:58pm
Ulairi


quote The Deathwind
quote Ulairi
3. Totodile, Croconaw Feraligatr
Surf
Waterfall
Crunch
Ice Fang (replace Ice Fang with TM 13 Ice Beam once you get it)

Do not do this. Feraligatr's physical attack is far better than it's special attack, Ice Fang is the better choice in this case.
quote liion
About Ice beam on Feraligatr: Feraligatr is a physical beast (can't believe I didn't catch that mistake!).
Okay, please bear with me cause I'm a noob. If you multiply the PP for each move by the respective average starting stat for Fealigatr, it appear to suggest that Ice Beam is superior:

Ice Fang 65 PP x 105 (av. STAT for Attack) = 6825
Ice Beam 95 PP x 79 (av. STAT for Sp. Attack) = 7505

Am I missing something and is it not that simple?



Apr 07, 10 at 8:34pm
liion


^the absolute PP? You lost me.


And About Ice beam on Feraligatr: Feraligatr is a physical beast (can't believe I didn't catch that mistake!). Also, where is Ice Beam? I beat Red, with no ice beam to be found.



Apr 07, 10 at 7:53pm
Ulairi


quote liion
Can you keep us up to date with your party so far?

I remember reading a page back that you prefer eruption over swift, and fire/thunderpunch and thunderbolt over light screen charge and signal beam.
Yeah, please be patient with me and bear in mind that we're learning as we go. It is only in the last week that I've realized that the absolute PP of an attack is only one variable.

It's still work in progress.



Apr 07, 10 at 6:58pm
The Deathwind


quote Ulairi
3. Totodile, Croconaw Feraligatr
Surf
Waterfall
Crunch
Ice Fang (replace Ice Fang with TM 13 Ice Beam once you get it)

Do not do this. Feraligatr's physical attack is far better than it's special attack, Ice Fang is the better choice in this case.



Apr 07, 10 at 6:47pm
liion


Can you keep us up to date with your party so far?

I remember reading a page back that you prefer eruption over swift, and fire/thunderpunch and thunderbolt over light screen charge and signal beam.

That sure made me giggle.


My party was:

Typhlosion:
Flamethrower
Lava Plume
Swift
Earthquake

Ampharos:
Signal Beam
Charge
Discharge
Thunder Wave

Feraligatr:
Waterfall
Ice Fang
Crunch
Rain Dance

Pidgeot:
Roost
Wing Attack
Fly
U-Turn

Pinsir:
X-Scizzor
Brick Break
Swords Dance
Rock Tomb

Tyranitar:
Dark Pulse/Crunch
Hyper Beam/Thrash
Rock Throw
Earthquake



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