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hideOriginal Post

Jan 13, 09 at 7:07amWatain


intro post

Thread Recap (last 10 posts from newest to oldest)

Jul 09, 14 at 9:50am
Polarity


Watain, didn't New Super Mario Brothers U have boss fights?

YOU HAD ONE *bleep*ING JOB, BRO!!



Jun 04, 14 at 5:36am
Stalagmite


quote Jak
quote Stalagmite
You still miss the point with the pacing. Each character is given their own arcs, which you then build upon during their Social Links. That isn't bad pacing; it's actually decent pacing.
Oh yeah, when Watain and I (and anybody else, for that matter) think of decent pacing, we think 2 character arcs in 25 hours (that being after the first 5 or so hours for the beginning).
I'm not saying it's got brilliant pacing.

What I am saying, though, is that it gives you time to get into the world of Persona 4 between the character arcs and plot twists. A little too much time, yeah, but it's not bombarding you with plot arcs. Neither did Persona 2, for that matter.



Jun 02, 14 at 10:52pm
Jak


quote Stalagmite
You still miss the point with the pacing. Each character is given their own arcs, which you then build upon during their Social Links. That isn't bad pacing; it's actually decent pacing.
Oh yeah, when Watain and I (and anybody else, for that matter) think of decent pacing, we think 2 character arcs in 25 hours (that being after the first 5 or so hours for the beginning).



Jun 01, 14 at 1:45am
Stalagmite


quote Watain
sorry for the long wait but I rewrote the trouble parts and cut out a few swears.
I think at that point, we'd just have to agree to disagree on the Social Links. *shrug*

You still miss the point with the pacing. Each character is given their own arcs, which you then build upon during their Social Links. That isn't bad pacing; it's actually decent pacing. Would I also prefer their arcs to intersect or happen at the same time as each other? Absolutely. But to say it sucks for the reasons you say it sucks is something of a definition of missing the point.

It's better though, I will say that much.



May 24, 14 at 9:04am
Aevers


quote Watain
Virtue, I honestly can't figure out where else it would sound hyperbolic to a fault, but hopefully, the rewritten bits makes it more palatable.
I'd say it was mostly in the Social Links where he had his issues so that's all good, I think.

Eh, I liked it, but the rewrite is definitely better.



May 19, 14 at 11:02pm
Jak


Yeah, better. It's a bit jarring in tone at times, though. It's like as if you're sort of trying not to be hyperbolic and overly opinionated like you usually are. It's probably just me though. What won't just be me is that you sort of gloss over the Social Links' apparent lack of personality. Come on man.

Also:

quote Jak
The omission of voice acting is a bit glaring since for me, it stands out quite a bit




May 18, 14 at 1:08am
Watain


Alyssa Monterey Jack Stalagmite Virtue sorry for the long wait but I rewrote the trouble parts and cut out a few swears.

Virtue, I honestly can't figure out where else it would sound hyperbolic to a fault, but hopefully, the rewritten bits makes it more palatable.



Apr 28, 14 at 8:56pm
Jak


I agree with Stalagmite on you stretching to find something good about enemy battles, and I find myself disagreeing with you on getting rid of the Social Links. Maybe Atlus finding a way to better sew them together for Persona 5 would make it more palatable to you? Might for me - I definitely agree that it feels like two games haphazardly put together, which further makes the Social Links much more better and the battling outside of bosses even more tedious.

I also find that you worded the story and character sections like shit. Some parts work fine like you describing the lack of any real development for the main characters after their arc and putting that in the Social Links instead of cutscenes (Persona 3 definitely did it better even if it meant having a slow first half), but others like you trying to describe the pacing and going "the characters are deep but not that deep y'know" just don't work. A lot of it does boil down to time management, which you gloss over, hardly acknowledging it. The omission of voice acting is a bit glaring since for me, it stands out quite a bit. Revision is definitely necessary.

On the flipside, the way you described combat and the music was fantastic.

quote Virtue
I also don't understand your position on the linear nature of social links. You have total independence (with the exception of 1-2 characters) on whom you choose to strengthen your bonds with. Some bonds require maxing out of traits, others require the activation of another S-Link. As you pointed out, depending on your words, they can both progress and regress.
I think what he meant was that outside of progressing and regressing, most of the choices you make feel so arbitrary beyond it taking longer to progress, that they may as well be completely linear. Then again, he probably expected these to be like other visual novels with winding paths out the ass. Nothing wrong with a simpler visual novel, especially one that's highly dependent on time management.



Apr 24, 14 at 3:03am
Monterey Jack


quote Watain
quote Monterey Jack
gotta disagree with you on getting rid of the social links. I actually find that it makes the game less fun if you just do all the story because of all the different characters you get to do the social links with. I also find that most of the social links are more interesting than most of the main characters and that, as well as looking forward to the next boss, was what made me keep playing.
yeah, that's why - I think I did, anyway - I suggested that they incorporate more cutscenes showing character development rather than having it all done in Social Links.

I disagree on the Social Link characters being fun. they're kind of lame, actually. besides Nanako, Dojima and Kanji, it's just some teenager or adult with issues like overattachment and overcompensation and it's like "why do people want this." they're not horrible or even okay, but I feel like it really *bleep*s with the pacing of the main story.
actually, what'd *bleep* with it more is more cutscenes. the Social Links, if anything, cut down on the slowness of the game as if you had them all in cutscenes, they'd take *bleep*en ages. not to mention, the whole "it's just some teenager or adult with issues like overattachment and overcompensation" is kind of the point and it actually ties into the theme of the main game pretty well. it's about searching for the truth and if you bullshit yourself, you'll probably be in mortal danger or you're probably one of the bad guys. that's just how it is. if you ain't a fan of the Social Links anyway, you could've written that like heaps better.

tho I reckon the main characters should've developed via cutscenes, I definitely agree with that.



Apr 18, 14 at 6:21am
Alyssa


I liked your coverage of combat. It is kind of cool how item and time management are big things throughout entire dungeons (besides going through them, there's going in and out of them to go back to the real world), especially against bosses. It really paints a vivid picture for me and that's what I expect reviews to do. Plus the fact that you say the story starts off with a bang - ordinarily, if anything, people usually say it starts off slowly, but you manage to put a convincing argument as to why that isn't quite the case.

If anything, the way in which you try to say that the bit after the first ten hours is slow is what hurts this review. Seriously dude, if you don't like the Social Links, that's one thing, but dismissing them based on something you misconstrued as false depth hurts the credibility of this review since it's objectively wrong. It comes across the same way a review of None So Vile tries to discredit its status by not giving it a proper chance. The thing is, I get it. Reloading saves can make things easier. Most responses amount to little difference dialogue-wise. But it's in the interactions and what gets discussed that the Social Links excel. Think Virtue said what needed to say there, but just to reiterate, you need to increase some real world stats (something you didn't mention) in order to initiate Social Links, you need to get somewhere in certain Social Links in order to start some others, and you can piss them off to a point where you'll need to make up (though I'd imagine the latter is ameliorated with save scumming) - all of which really place emphasis on time management if you want to get the best out of fused Personas (which are the best ones really) as well as obtain Personas you can only get through maxing out Social Links (even better Personas there usually). As Stalagmite rightly pointed out, it reads like a series of notes reflecting different tones - appraisal, indifference, negativity, contrarian, sterile; nothing there is consistent and that really hurts any review, really badly, All that double talk - it's the kind of thing I tend to hate about professional reviews of big games.

I don't know man. Maybe you just wanted to be different by going "it ain't that great" but didn't pull it off as well as you like to think you could've. No, my overly critical look at your review has nothing to do with Persona 4 being one of my favorite games, no siree.




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