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hideOriginal Post

Apr 17, 08 at 1:13pmKH researcher


I found this very interesting, and did not know until now that FFVII's world is a result of the occurances in FFX/X-2.
quote
****Translations concerning the plot-related connection between FFVII and
FFX/X-2**** (007)
As some fans of Final Fantasy VII, X and X-2 may or may not know, the worlds
of the two games share a plot-related connection. The connection's existance
was established during an interview with Yoshinori Kitase (lead developer of
the Final Fantasy series) and Kazushige Nojima (the scenario writer of Final
Fantasy VII, Before Crisis, Advent Children, Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy
X, Final Fantasy X-2 and the Kingdom Hearts series) in 2002, as featured in
the Final Fantasy X Ultimania Omega guidebook, an official Square-Enix
publication.

This interview established that there would be a connection between the two
worlds, though it didn't detail it. However, based on what was later revealed
to be the connection, it's clear that it had already been conceived, as
Kitase hints at it with his final word on the subject. In 2003, the exact
nature of the concept was finally revealed in the Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania,
having been hinted toward by a few elements of the game.

Nojima revealed that Shinra of the Gullwings, an Al Bhed child prodigy and
inventor of various machinery, would attempt using the remains of Vegnagun --
the behemoth machina Shuyin tried to destroy Spira with -- to extract life
energy from the Farplane and use it to power machines.
Shinra would attempt
doing this as a result of his analysis of the Farplane late in the game.
During this diagnostic, Shinra concluded that there was a great deal of energy
floating around inside the Farplane
, and that it was most likely the life
force of Spira
, which could be extracted and used as a power source; however,
he concluded that it would take generations to properly implement the idea.

Further of note is that Nojima explained that the Al Bhed entrepeneur Rin also
was interested in extracting mako from the Farplane, and that he provided
Shinra with the funding to make the attempt.
For his part, Rin's desire to do
this is revealed during the game should he be uncovered as the culprit behind
covering up the malfunctioning machina disaster on the Mi'hen Highroad.

Nojima went on to say that Shinra's attempts to use Vegnagun's remains failed
and that he was unable to complete the concept of mako-extraction, just as
Shinra had predicted. However, some 1000 years later, once space travel became
possible, Shinra's descendants would go on a voyage to the world of Final
Fantasy VII.
There, at some point in the future, they would be successful in
utilizing the concept, and would provide electricity from the Planet for a
price; these descendants would found the Shin-Ra Company of Final Fantasy VII.

The connection would again be hinted toward in the Final Fantasy X-2:
International+Last Mission (released in 2004) game's Last Mission scenario, in
which Rikku revealed that Rin and Shinra had begun working together. Next,
the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega guidebook (released in September, 2005)
also brings forth mention of the concept, and, finally, the connection may
have received further indication through Dirge of Cerberus (released in
January, 2006) and the Advent Children Reunion Files book (released in May,
2006), in which it is established that the Shera airship seen in Advent
Children and Dirge of Cerberus runs on ancient, lost non-mako technology that
Cid discovered.
This technology very well may have originally belonged to
Shinra's descendants, as they are the only previous inhabitants of VII's world
indicated to have been in possession of advanced technology, and because the
interior of the Shera bears some aesthetic resemblances to those of the
Fahrenheit and Celsius airships that figure prominently into FFX and FFX-2
(though the Shera's interior bears more of a resemblance to the Celsius').

I will here present the dialogue from Final Fantasy X-2 that hints at the
connection, as well as the interviews and other translations that establish
its existance as part of official Final Fantasy continuity.

***Dialogue with Rin from Final Fantasy X-2***
Rin
"You are suggesting that my decision to upgrade the machina resulted in a
number of casualties... ... and that I tried to cover it up?"

Yuna
"You put the investigation in our hands because we were amateurs. You hoped we
would botch the case."

Yuna
"And then, I kept calling you even though I didn't have any leads."

Yuna
"You would have objected to the meaningless interruptions, if you really
wanted to solve the case."

Rin
"I see. It appears that I have underestimated you, Yuna."

Rikku
"Why, Rin?"

Rin
"If word got out that machina pose a danger, people would fear them and stop
using them."

Paine
"So Yevon's not alone in sweeping things under the rug."

Rin
"I firmly believe that machina are an indispensable part of Spira's
development."

Rin
"Even if there is another incident, I intend to conceal the evidence."

Yuna
"You really think people will follow you that way?"

Rin
"I am not alone in my thinking."

Rin
"We are researching ways to extract the vast energy that sleeps in Spira, and
use it to power machina."

Paine
"You're a jackass."

Rin
"I will take that as a compliment."



***Dialogue with Shinra from Final Fantasy X-2***
Shinra
"Aha..."

Yuna
"What are you looking at?"

Shinra
"Farplane data."

Shinra
"The more I study it, the more fascinating it gets. There's limitless energy
swirling around in there."

Yuna
"Limitless energy?"

Shinra
"The life force that flows through our planet...I think."

Shinra
"With a little work, we could probably extract the energy in a useable form."

Brother
"Sweet!"

Shinra
"Of course, that'd take generations."

Brother
"That's no fun!"

Buddy
"Well, still, it is something worth shooting for."

Yuna
"Think how much Spira would change if we ever got it to work!"

Yuna
"Maybe one day we could build a city full of light, one that never sleeps!"

Shinra
"No doubt about it."



***Dialogue with Rikku from Final Fantasy X-2: International+Last Mission***
Paine
"These days, people are always looking for sunken machina."

Rikku
"Yup-yup!"

Yuna
"Oh? Has Shinra been helping you with that?"

Rikku
"Ahh, now that you bring it up..."

Rikku
"Well, he left the ship and got together with Rin, and what do you think all
that research they've been doing is about?"



***Interview with Yoshinori Kitase and Kazushige Nojima in the Final Fantasy X
Ultimania Omega*** (Page 191)
**FFVII and FFX are connected?!**
--"Previously, with a conversation in the FFX Scenario Ultimania, you made
certain inferences, and since it's been about half a year since then, is there
anything new you'd like to clarify about FFX?"

Kitase
"That's true...... Now that FFX International is out and we're in the future,
I'm in a predicament; it really isn't that hard to think of another story
[set] in that world; room for expansion was left possible there without too
much difficulty, don't you think? Speaking conversely, FFX received a splendid
reception and made us think of adding to it."

Nojima
"After FFVII was finished, we were easily able to add Zack's open[-ended role]
into the International version. But, with X, there was an older story with a
partly-finished world and an opening that this new one could be added to and
[, in doing] so[,] complete it."

Kitase
"So, you could say [in terms of] time, Nojima-san decided to designate it to
act as a sequel to VII, if you follow me."


--"It's a sequel to VII!!"

Kitase
"Well, there was a joke right there. Simply put, in VII's ending, Holy came,
and the next thing you knew, it was over without closing things up, and then
it was the "500 years later" [scene] in the future. There's a large margin
buried there. A margin for the imagination. Nojima-san and Toriyama are going
to be filling something of that with VII, though, while they're at their best
and can do it."


--"So, will it become a sequel to VII's story?"

Nojima
"I have a strong feeling that they're going to be connected."


--"Huh, so VII and X ARE connected?"

Nojima
"Well, there's not many specifics to it. I know that what becomes of people
when they die is among them; you could say that it's basically the same. Both
[concepts came to] function along the same line of thought as I wrote the
stories. Sometimes my thoughts just flow out like that, even though pyreflies
distinctly aren't green."


--"When you speak of the dead becoming [something] green, do you perhaps
[mean]......?"

Nojima
"Yes. In my mind, pyreflies and VII's Lifestream are the same substance."

Kitase
"Nojima-san's even considering making use of an idea like this -- [with] an
addition to the idea of life origin -- in a sequel to FFX International.
That's just a little bit of the thought that's been going into what to do with
VII."

Nojima
"That's right. There's something like the Lifestream [in X's world
also]......."


--"'An addition to the idea of life origin'......does that mean you're going
to revise life origin concepts or something?"

Nojima
"I can't say......it's a secret (laughs)."

Kitase
"It's a surprise with how someone from the story conducts theirself with
regards to the Farplane."



***Interview with FFX-2 creators from the Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania***
(Page 723)
**"So, what of this child, Shinra......"**
--"Among these latest stories, 'connected' is one of the key words becoming
applicable, isn't it?"

[Daisuke] Watanabe
"I personally like the word 'connected,' but there's one aspect where that
applies well."

Nojima
"During the game's progression, various vague things will be tied together to
reveal it."


--"For example, the name 'Shinra' suggests a connection with VII? There's
[what's said] in the 'Graduation Mission' scenario [ -- 'graduation'
referring to Shinra being soon to leave the Gullwings -- ], and the 'I am not
alone in my thinking' line from the 'Rin's Detective Work' scenario seems to
have some particular significance."

Nojima
"Actually, it does. After quitting the Gullwings, Shinra received enormous
financial support from Rin, and began trying to use Vegnagun to siphon Mako
Energy from the Farplane. But, he is unable to complete the system for
utilizing this energy in his generation, and in the future, when traveling to
distant planets becomes possible, the Shin-Ra Company is founded on another
world, or something like that....... That would happen about 1000 years after
this story, I think."


--"So VII's story is after that?"

Nojima
"Well, you could say the feelings I have are like that. When I think about the
characters, those are the kinds of feelings I already have. Shinra is a good
child, but his descendants are going to end up becoming like the president [of
Shin-Ra] (laughs)."

Watanabe
"With you said about VII, after seeing your episodes with Shinra, one of the
people on the [development] staff said that the first shot of the Bevelle
Underground 'gives the impression of somewhere else.'"

[Motomu] Toriyama
"Certainly; it looks like the opening shot of Midgar in VII."



***Information on Shinra of the Gullwings in the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania
Omega*** (Page 563)
Shinra is a boy who supports the Gullwings, the group which the main
protagonist, Yuna, belongs to. He carries a name that gives him an association
to the Shin-Ra Company, and he is researching a method that could utilize the
energy of "the life force that flows through our planet." The results of this
cannot be seen in FFX-2, but maybe one day his descendants will establish a
"company that supplies the energy of the planet"?

(Accompanying screenshot caption)
The words of Shinra, which can be heard at the end of the story. This world
has something similar to the Lifestream that is worthy of attention.



***Interview with FFVII creators from the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania
Omega*** (Page 571)
--"At E3 (the world's largest game show, which was held in America), as a demo
for the PS3, the opening of FFVII was shown; was its purpose to serve as
something of a preliminary announcement?

Kitase
"Well, in regard to that, please think of it as a mere demonstration. Because
the production period for its imagery was [going to be] so short, we made the
opening of FFVII, as it was easy to represent. Beyond that, there is no
particular deeper meaning.


--"In that case, it's not a remake; when might you be making something to
serve as the direct continuation of FFX-2?"

Kitase
"Producing something like that holds the same problem as a remake [of FFVII],
as our schedule just isn't open for it [right now]."



***Information concerning the Shera and fuel in the Advent Children Reunion
Files book*** (Page 87)
What do they use for fuel in this time period?
"Cloud and the gang certainly aren't using mako anymore, because it drains the
life of the planet. That means they don't use Materia, either. Yuffie collects
them, but that's just because she lives to collect things (laughs). I guess
the airship must be running on some mysterious ancient power source." (Nomura)
Even though they're really iffy about specifics (NOT lol), it can be concluded that FFVII is in fact a direct (but distant) after occurance to FFX-2.

With that being said, I think that Jenova came from Spira!! Yes... FFX's story may give hints to the origins of Jenova, even though the developers claim that they're thought process just sort of coincidentally plotted everything together... I want to make other assumptions, but I'm just curious to see what other people's thoughts are on this matter.

Thread Recap (last 10 posts from newest to oldest)

Mar 26, 14 at 4:47am
Epoch


Never underestimate the greed of powerful men, and remember that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

They may not have had "good" reasons, but that did not stop them from doing it, did it? (making mako reactors, creating monsters/materia)
Big money corporations (like shinra) don't care about making sense, they care about making money.

I propose that the original mako reactor was created to power the ship they used to travel from Spira to Gaia.

Perhaps the entire city of Midgar was NEY, IS a giant space ship.



Mar 24, 14 at 8:00pm
gobi1972


quote Epoch
quote gobi1972
I'm wondering why they need that much energy in the first place?

To make Materia and, Soldier's, and Mako Monsters.
Didn't Spira's people able to learn magic without the needs for Materia? I can understand if Gaia's people require materia, but why could Spira's people need it? Lulu had no Aeons in her and she able to learn black magic. Hell, they all did.

Soldiers are created from Jenova cells, so even if you have mako, I doubt you could create a Soldier with just mako (unless you want mutants or Cloud-like vegetable). And besides, why you need Mako monsters when you can create undead monsters (like Seymour was after the first battle).



Mar 22, 14 at 7:35pm
Epoch


quote gobi1972
I'm wondering why they need that much energy in the first place?

To make Materia and, Soldier's, and Mako Monsters.



Mar 15, 14 at 12:10am
gobi1972


by mezzo_gamer

quote
Pretty positive that Tidus and Cloud aren't part of the same gene pool. (When I see Cloud backflip and launch a ball through water at torpedo speed, and hold his breath for an infinite amount of time, MAYBE I'll be convinced. Maybe.)
Correct me if I'm wrong ... but didn't Cloud almost DROWN saving Priscilla from that sea monster??? I don't think he cut out to be a Blitz player. A timber log, maybe but definately not a Blitz player.

quote
And if ANYONE had come from Spira to Gaia, there would almost definitely be some form of Spirean culture brought with them. When America went to the moon, they brought a flag. Spira might not have a flag, but anyone trying to inhabit a new planet isn't going to want to walk in a totally unfamiliar world with nothing they remember present.
Assuming that they going to have to come out with some rocket ship or machina-method of transporting to Gaia, it probably takes about ... what a few hundred years before Spira is technologically enough to launch space ships to another Planet. We have just reached about 100 years since we started to dream of going to the Moon and now we are dreaming of going to Mars. We still have not reach the traveling speed of 1/3 of that of light, our space ship is still primitive that we have to generate artificial gravity by rotating the arc and our astronauts still loses physical strenght in prolong space travel.So, it probably take another 100 yrs before we manage to tackle all these problems.

quote
Oh, and finally, why would they travel all the way to a new planet to work on their energy harnessing technique, instead of just trying it out in Spira?
I'm wondering why they need that much energy in the first place? Bevelle did not harness their own Planet's resources like Shin Ra and they managed to operate advance machines like a Blitz stadium. Even in FFX-2, they lived a more traditional lives than one that required modern infrastructure. So unless they are in some energy crisis which we don't know about, I really doubt that will harness their own energy in the Farplanes much less travel God knows how far to another Planet for energy.



Mar 13, 14 at 10:05pm
mezzo gamer


The idea that Jenova is a Sinspawn is completely wrong. It is littered with impossibility.
In FFX Wakka states that Sinspawn are just fiends that fall from Sin's body, and are left behind. Not sent across space to other planets.
Also, (spoiler alert) Sin's purpose wasn't to destroy all machina because machina is soo evil. Sin's purpose was to protect Dream Zanarkand from the rest of Spira, and only destroyed over-developed machina as retribution for Bevelle using it in the Machina War against Zanarkand. Yu Yevon was just getting some revenge, and protecting his figmented home.
Last of all, consider if Jenova WAS sent as Sinspawn to destroy the machina on Gaia that was established by Shinra's descendants... Oh, wait. By the time Shinra even noticed the existence of massive Farplane energies, Sin had been totally vanquised by Yuna and her guardians.

As for the original topic, Shinra's descendants going to Gaia at all almost fully nullifies the history of the Cetra and the Ancients that already exists. That doesn't even make sense. It's a pretty solid argument for it, but it just doesn't really add up.

Pretty positive that Tidus and Cloud aren't part of the same gene pool. (When I see Cloud backflip and launch a ball through water at torpedo speed, and hold his breath for an infinite amount of time, MAYBE I'll be convinced. Maybe.)

And if ANYONE had come from Spira to Gaia, there would almost definitely be some form of Spirean culture brought with them. When America went to the moon, they brought a flag. Spira might not have a flag, but anyone trying to inhabit a new planet isn't going to want to walk in a totally unfamiliar world with nothing they remember present.

Oh, and finally, why would they travel all the way to a new planet to work on their energy harnessing technique, instead of just trying it out in Spira? I think Guadosalam would've made for a nice base of operations, and Seymour's Mansion would make quite a formidable laboratory for machina-related testing.

Just my opinions on things. Sorry if I seem rude or negative in any way.



Mar 08, 14 at 4:02am
PraetorAuron


I'm sorry for bumping such an old thread, but I found this through a google search about FFX HD, and felt I had to add my two cents.

I think, even if the developers didnt try to retcon the connection between VII and X/X-2, that the connection was already established. Shinra being the obvious example, as well as the givings on Rin and ShinRa in trying to extract the energies from the Farplane, leading to Shinras descendents doing the same thing on FFVIIs world.

Its a connection I drew even before the interview and its still what I believe today.



Apr 19, 09 at 12:00am
Narutokun445


I think there is a serious connection between FFX-X2 and FFVII!!!!!! I compared a picture of Tidus from X and Cloud from VII and found that they have the same nose, mouth, face, eyes, eyebrows, build, and hair type! So apparently according to this passage Cloud is a far off descendant of Tidus! I even pasted the transparent versions of the pics over one another and ever little detail looked similar! This is a major discovery in the Final Fantasy series. Farplane Souls and Mako Energy are the same. I realized / suspected a connection when I noticed that there were two (or possibly one single) Cid Characters. Al Bhed Cid in FFX, and Hillbilly Cid in FFVII. If you notice any other connections please contact me!

quote KH researcher
quote
"I have a strong feeling that they're going to be connected."
A strong feeling is a lot more than a joke. It cannot be questioned that there is a connection. The questions only come when trying to figure out the specifics in this connection. And the researching of weapons does not rule out the possibility of researching the planet. It takes time for a civilization to start from scratch and build up technology, but even in our own history, 98% of all technology is a result of war. Just something to think about.


quote
--"So VII's story is after that?"

Nojima
"Well, you could say the feelings I have are like that. When I think about the
characters, those are the kinds of feelings I already have. Shinra is a good
child, but his descendants are going to end up becoming like the president [of
Shin-Ra] (laughs)."
If there is at all a joke, then the joke is on the person asking the question of whether they are connected. Nojima is clearly laughing because it is quite obvious that the two stories very much are.

quote
And we're supposed to believe that ShinRa are 'aliens' who have been researching and using the Planet's energy for thousands of years

It doesn't really matter if you believe that the descendants of Shinra are the same people that started Shin-Ra co., because it is a reality.

EDIT: Wait... it may be possible that the descendants of Shinra (an Al-Bhed) are the Cetra... I mean it makes sense... they knew and studied the planets life-force... and the ones that hid from Jenova may have just started the Shinra company and done what their predecessors did, just in a more dangerous way, once it was safe to do so. And if you think about it, the Al-Bhed and Cetra both have languages different than the rest of the populations on their planets.

This message was edited by KH researcher on Apr 19 2008.
Well another realization that you could likely connect are the sin-spawn. What if in some Gigantic twist of reality that Jenova was a living breathing Sin-spawn that could freely communicate with society? A sin-spawn that could think and plot to spread sin's corruption throughout the two worlds? Have you ever considered that? Also the machina and FFVII machines are similar in structure. Take a close look at the FFVII Mako reactor and the Machina guns used against Sin. They have lots of similar design traits. My thoughts are that Shinra's descendants rebuilt the FFX machina to run they're city / planet. And Sin realizing this in FFX sent Jenova to the FFVII World Early on to destroy it since Machina was the cause of Sin's creation in the first place. Then since Jenova was captured she passed on her legacy to Sephiroth through Shin-Ra so that Sephiroth could fulfill Sin's original purpose. Thus leading to Cloud's story. If you give me some time I can tie up any loose ends with research and hard Game Play!

This message was merged with other messages by Wraith (moderator)



Apr 25, 08 at 8:26pm
KH researcher


quote
i dont get it ... so how are they connected ?
Because the plots and settings are very similar, and the charaters in FFVII are linked to the characters from FFX through the developers' planning.

And lol to that, On Vacation.




Apr 23, 08 at 6:11pm
zero_kidd2o4


i dont get it ... so how are they connected ?



Apr 23, 08 at 5:04pm
Onvacation


I posted this exact thread a year ago






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