Are SSJ2 and SSJ3 required for SSJ4 or just SSJ1 + controlled Oozaru is enough?

Can anyone answer this question? Is SSJ2 even required? Because if so SSJ2 AND SSJ3 seem like waste of time (I mean disregarding the canon issues) it seems like SSJ4 was really the true SSJ4 or at least the real next stage of SSJ while 2-3 were just like more powered up versions of SSJ1.

However is 2 and 3 are required to do SSJ4 then they are absolutely necessary forms.

I don't think SSj3 is "required" at all. It seems like something you're not even supposed to have in the first place.

As for Super Saiyan 1 or 2, I dunno. Having perfected Super Saiyan, and thus having the capability to go beyond it, seems just as likely and reasonable a prerequisite as just having Super Saiyan in the first place.

But the only reason this doubt has been cast over me lately is because of my own fanon. I've found that a 1000x multiplier, Oozaru's 10x off of SSj2's 100x, works better for Super Saiyan 4 than a 500x one does. Without that factoring into it, though, it's all good considering only SSj1 as the only requirement.

The way I see it, if you have Ssj + tail and if you can control the Gold Oozaru form, you can go Ssj4.
Furthermore, I believe that a Ssj4 Goku (Androids arc) would exactly be = Ssj4 Goku (Buu arc) simply because the Ssj4 pushes your power up to your limits, and Goku's (and everyone's) limits are the same in the beginning and in the end of the series.
I think there is no a fixed multiplier for Ssj4, but, simply, with this transformation a Saiyan can use all his natural power up to his limits, in the most natural way possible; so, after the achievement of Ssj4, Ssj, Ssj2 and Ssj3 would be practically useless, because they simply are fixed steps of a saiyan's power.
Because of the presence in the manga of Saikyou no Senshi Gohan, we can know very well where, for example, a Ssj4 Goku should rank: we know that Gohan's limits are > Goku's, and we also know that Ultimate Gohan is > a Ssj4 Gohan, because Old Kai powered up Gohan beyond his limits, while Ssj4 would power him up to his limits..
So, it would be: Ultimate Gohan > Ssj4 Gohan > Ssj4 Goku, with Ssj4 Goku probably not that far from Super Buu's power.
I personally think the idea behind Ssj4 is beautiful, and I would have liked a lot the presence of Ssj4 in the manga.
Regrettably, in GT Ssj4 lost most of his coolness because GT story and GT power chain are shit.

I honestly am not even sure if SSJ1 is required for SSJ4. It's such a different form from all the others, honestly. It requires an extremely huge power level, the light of a planet and the presence of mind to control the Super Oozaru form. That's the only requirements I am aware of.

quote G_O_G_E_T_A

I think the golden fur alone that a Saiyan has as a Golden Oozaru suggests that possessing the ability to become Super Saiyan is a prerequisite. It's pretty straightforward (IMO).

I'm not so sure. Wasn't the TOEI version of the original legendary SSJ just a giant golden ape? It's possible this is an alternative to SSJ1 but much more powerful. Perhaps all the forms Goku and Vegeta went through first could only happen due to their lack of tails.

quote G_O_G_E_T_A

quote

I'm not so sure. Wasn't the TOEI version of the original legendary SSJ just a giant golden ape?

He was said by Vegeta to have to transform into his Oozaru state in order to control his Super Saiyan power; so he wasn't like that right off the bat. Presumably, he was the same way Goku was originally, though that was never actually said in so many words, IIRC.

Ah..see, the translations get a little wonky. Even the official one didn't give me that impression. I need to actually learn some Japanese and stop taking other people's words for it. The impression I got was that the original SSJ was always a golden ape.

quote XxSkelterXx

In the Original manga, Vegeta never once says that they need to transform into a Super Golder Ozaru or anything. I think you guys are confusing this with the Ozaru montage in the anime. Vegeta only says he could maintain his power in a transformed state, but he never says Ozaru.

Obviously, in a thread pertaining to SSJ4, we're going to use TOEI Animation's logic for this particular instance. In any other debate about a canonical Legendary Super Saiyan that would be filler, but since SSJ4 itself is all TOEI it's only fair to use their ideas.

I always thought the name "SSJ4" was a bit out of place; SSJ3 isn't required as shown with Vegeta; SSJ2 most likely isn't either, as all that's ever stated to be required the control of the Golden Oozaru (merely SSJ + Oozaru); it's a potential unlock, rather than some other form that stacks on top of the last. You'd think it'd be in a different category altogether.

As for the topic, like I already said, nothing more is implied to be needed other than control over the SSJ Oozaru. I think the only reason it can be a bit confusing is because it's called "SSJ4", rather than being in its own category like it (IMO) should be.