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| CatouttaHell |
Jun 19, 11 at 4:37pm ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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Log in to remove this sponsored message quote xMakuuxI'll just repeat what I said when we had this discussion over on DaizEX about that line saying nothing about him becoming mindless or anything. I feel like the other quote you posted and the one I posted are just talking about the two main things that happened to Shin when he became Chibi and how they contributed to him destroying the Earth. Not saying I think your interpretation is wrong or any less valid than mine, just saying how I feel about this. quote xMakuuxMeh, I don't know how accurate planet busting statements really are. I mean almost all of them are most likely false. Cell claimed his Kamehameha would destroy the solar system and yet his Kamehameha clashing with and getting over-powered by an even bigger one didn't even destroy the planet it happened on. Vegeta at 18,000 claimed he'd destroy the planet and yet Fat Boo who is in the billions at least only destroyed 1/10th of it with his Kamehameha. Not saying Piccolo is wrong, just that planet-busting lines seem to mostly be inaccurate. And even if Piccolo is right, it's still kind of interesting how a huge blast like what Shin Boo did was his only attack that was stated to be planet-busting level, yet Chibi Boo was about to bust the planet the first time with a lazy, uncharged Ki blast. quote xMakuuxWell like I said on DaizEX, I believe those quotes were talking about different things. The one you posted is about Boo becoming mindless once he turned Chibi, the one I posted is about him getting a huge power-up (I have Chibi Boo over 2x Shin Boo personally). The one I posted says absolutely nothing about his mindstate. I mean, this is common knowledge to us hardcore fans but guidebooks are generally for people who may not know a lot about the series and are for guiding them through the series. It seems that given that context it was merely referring to him powering up and not becoming mindless but I definitely can see where you're coming from. quote xMakuuxWell look at this Shin Boo quote: quote HermsSeems like that's why Shin Boo himself thinks they can't win. It seems suspicious to me that he wants to fuse if the only problem there is that Shin Boo is allegedly stronger than them. Gohan and Gotenks are with them and Gokū wants to fuse with Vegeta. Since his plan is to get a new pair of Potara he's thinking about breaking out of Boo and teleporting to the Kaioshin Realm. Kibitoshin can heal people so they'll easily be able to awaken Gohan and Gotenks and have them ready to fight. We saw by their performances that they're both above Shin Boo, yet Gokū chooses the convoluted plan to somehow convince the incredibly stubborn Vegeta to permanently fuse with him AGAIN, teleport to the Kaioshin Realm hoping Boo doesn't kill them before they can, and permanently fusing over the far simpler and more reasonable plan of having Gohan-tachi do it for them. To me it seems like either Gokū has suddenly become stupid or there's more to Shin Boo than just his Battle Power. Speaking of stupid, I don't know how Gokū couldn't have figured out they were tiny yet. I mean I don't think he knew the sheer magnitude of their tiny problem yet but it's obvious to anybody if they're walking around inside the body of someone who isn't even twice your size that you have seriously shrunk. The way I see it is: he wanted to Potara fuse because Shin Boo was now *bleep*ing huge compared to them. SSjin 3 Gokū and Chou Gohan would both smash Shin Boo's face in with normal circumstances but considering their tiny problem they had to go with the most overkill option they had: fusing back into Vegetto. Considering this is the guy who somehow withstood being magically turned into a candy and just continued to rape Boo unhindered I wouldn't be surprised if he could defeat Boo even shrunk down. quote xMakuuxWell just because Gokū is surprised doesn't mean Gohan is stronger than him, it just means he got a huge power-up. Hell, going by his "so he really wasn't just some regular dirty old geezer" line it sounds like he's mainly so surprised because he was thinking that Old Kaioshin was useless and lying. Also, regarding Daizenshuu 7, I think the key word is "potentially." I just don't view Old Kaioshin's power-up as something that predictable at all. I think if he went to some alternate universe where Raditz, etc never happened and Gohan was just some weak halfbreed who spent his life studying and never trained and gave him that power-up he'd be WORLDS below our Ultimate Gohan. I feel that if he had trained more he would've definitely had power beyond that of Gokū's but that as it stands he doesn't. I mean the series is all about surpassing one's limits and reaching new plateaus, etc. The way I see it, if Gohan trained as much as Gokū did he would definitely be stronger, but as it stands Gokū with all of that Otherworld training, etc he did to advance further and further has greater potential Gohan in the Boo Arc. Very good points by the way, man. I may not agree with you but I can tell you know your stuff, and it's nice to see somebody else here who actually takes the official guidebooks seriously. | |
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| xMakuux |
Jun 19, 11 at 5:47pm ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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It would seem we can't agree on the previous points, so I'll just start here:
quote CatouttaHellAnd again I'll say it's because they can't fuse anymore. Immediately after Goku says this: Goku: “Di-didn’t I tell ya to wear your Potara?! Th-this is why! If we could just go outside and merge, then this kind of guy would be an easy victory!” An evil grin appears on Buu's face and he says: Buu: "So you can't combine anymore...[...]That's nice" *After which he jumps up and faces Goku and Vegeta. So that's what I think he's referring to. quoteAt first his plan was to revert Evil Buu(Gohan) to the very first one of all(Fat Buu). When Vegeta breaks the potara, Goku only has fusion left to defeat Buu. He didn't plan on getting new potaras or anything. quoteGoku made no such plan, he just said that if Vegeta hadn't broken the potara then, when they go outside again, they could beat Buu. quoteThat's not what I meant. Goku obviously knew they were tiny, he just didn't know he wouldn't be able to make a hole in Buu's body, when tiny, which indicates that he expected it would have the same effect as if he were his normal sized self. quoteWhich again is something that really isn't stated combined with Goku's expectation that he should be able to blow a hole in Buu even when tiny, I just think it's reaching a bit too much. The way I see it concerning these debates is that the best method to establish what's true and what's not is to go by what is the likeliest scenario. And in this case, I simply can't see Goku thinking his inferiority has anything to do with being temporarily tiny. quote CatouttaHellI'm not referring to Goku's surprise, I'm referring to the dialouge itself about what the Elder Kaioshin is unlocking: Gohan's True Power. quoteI can only repeat the above and say that what was being released was Gohan's true power. quoteWell at least you aren't a dick or anything. It's always nice to be in debates, where it doesn't get heated and people start flaming each other etc. And I make it a point to include everything of worth, when it concerns my view on the series. | |
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| Wakaman |
Jun 19, 11 at 7:01pm ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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quote CatouttaHellNot directly no,but you keep saying Buuhan used some of Kid's power,and you have Kid as strongest of Buus so as to set up Goku>everyone scenario,just sayin Daizenshuu also half asses its credibility with multiple contradictions mang,and no,it is not a better source. One is what the writer made,his words,while the is merely approved by him,most likely not even proof read by him. If the manga states Super>Kid,which it does,then by default it is automatically a better source than the Daizenshuu. Just like manga>anime,same toilet,different shit. And manga states Gotenks>Goku,again,by default its a better source.Not only that but Gotenks fought evenly with a guy who Goku wanted no part of,funny that for the first time ever in the series A guy stronger than him doesn't get him excited to the point where he wants to fight em. ------------------- quote AsyilemJoin the Vita Forum/FF XIII-2 Forum/Resident Evil 6 Forum/Dragon's Dogma Forum/New Super Mario Bros. 2 Forum | |
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| xMakuux |
Jun 19, 11 at 8:27pm ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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Since this isn't solely about the Super vs. Kid discussion I think I want to talk about this:
quoteSaying they made a mistake here is the most likely scenario, which is of course because Toriyama made it seem like there were Kaio-ken and Kaio-ken x2. The normal one is stated by the narrator to double the users battle power, so there really isn't a Kaio-ken level that only grants you 1,5 times your BP. Who knows maybe it is like some people claim: that Toriyama introduced the 2 in its name, because it was a setup for Kaio-ken x3? | |
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| metal4ever |
Jun 19, 11 at 10:07pm ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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quote CatouttaHellGoku wasn't surprised he turned big again. It's just a face of excitement... who wouldn't be after turning huge all of a sudden? They even thought they were small and unfused because of the air inside Boo. And you realize the Daizenshuu is basically THEIR interpretation of the manga, mixed in with a few Toriyama interviews and facts? Quotes and a fight from the manga prove FP SSj3 Goku >=< Kid Boo and FP Kamehameha >> Kid Boo. ------------------- quote Newcomer | |
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| CatouttaHell |
Jun 20, 11 at 4:40am ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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quote xMakuuxCould be both? I mean I think Vegetto would be a huge problem to him even shrunk down to smaller than a flea. quote xMakuuxWell I'm just assuming it was his plan. I mean it's not like Gohan was dead or anything. There were two individuals out there who Gokū could quickly reach who could heal Gohan, if even that would be necessary. It just sounds like an infinitely more reasonable plan of action if the only problem there was Shin Boo being strong, you know? Why teach Vegeta the Metamorian fusion or somehow hope you can escape from Boo, grab the Potara, convince Vegeta to fuse, and become permanently fused with him when Getting Gohan to kill Boo for you is just a so much easier strategy, without the horrible permanent drawback of being permanently fused with Vegeta. I guess Gokū just wasn't thinking very clearly though. He was sarcastic, of all things, in this very same chapter so it seems like he wasn't fully in his right mind (lacking Yuuki.) quote xMakuuxWell even if it had the same effect, being tiny is still a huge problem. I mean imagine if Goku shrank down like that and fought somebody normal, like Cell, who he'd have a huge power advantage over. Despite his tiny size he'd still be able to deal serious, permanent damage to them and soon kill them. Meanwhile Shin Boo just instantly regenerates from everything and a huge Ki attack is the only thing that can possibly destroy him. So the huge size difference would be just as big of a problem even if he could do damage as he could before IMO. quote xMakuuxOut of curiousity, if Elder Kaioshin were to visit an alternate universe where the Earth was never in danger during the Z part so Gohan didn't train a day of his life and gave him the power-up, do you believe he'd be as strong as our Ultimate Gohan? I personally think the amount of potential one has also has to do with the training they've done in the past. If you think about it, Son Gokū got maybe less than 2x stronger from having his hidden power unleashed by the Choshinsui and yet Kuririn went from 1,770 to 75,000. IMO that's just because Son Gokū hadn't really done much Ki training yet, only physical. I personally think Chou Gohan < SSjin 3 Goku simply because of all the additional training Gokū did in the Otherworld, etc while Gohan just sat around and did nothing. quote xMakuuxYeah, I love debates that don't just degenerate into flaming and baseless accusations based on a difference of beliefs. I used to be a Daizenshuu-hater until very recently. I honestly feel it doesn't really contradict the manga much, if at all, and the instances where it seems to are just misinterpretations that people have and don't want to throw away. Just my opinion though. quote WakamanI don't think Chibi Boo > Gohan-Boo manga-wise, only Anime-wise. I have manga Chibi Boo a notch below Gotenks-Boo and Anime Chibi Boo above Super Vegetto. But that's a story for a different title. The Daizenshuu doesn't contradict anything. It contradicts your INTERPRETATION maybe, but not the manga. Everything people in the Daizenshuu call a contradiction is just misinterpretations of very obvious things. For example, people say the Daizenshuu contradicts the manga by saying Kid Gohan = Teen Gohan because the manga says otherwise. Yet, both the Daizenshuu and the manga state Gohan gets a rage boost that shoots his power up beyond his SSjin 2. And if you'll notice, the manga ONLY states he was weaker than when he defeated Cell, which he did with a rage boost. There's literally nothing saying he was weaker than he was before except when he's a SSjin 2. So yeah, just a random example. The Daizenshuu doesn't contradict anything, the Boo Arc is just a horribly written pile of shit, so it's possible to easily misinterpret things. Toriyama was so fed up by that point that he couldn't even keep anybody in character, let alone make coherent character strength comparisons. quote xMakuuxWell the Daizenshuu on multiple occasions makes it clear that Kaio-ken and Kaio-ken x2 are different things. To be honest that's the only scenario that makes sense to me. I mean, Gokū's official battle power against Vegeta is over 8,000 right? Vegeta's full power is 18,000. With a Kaio-ken x2 Gokū would be at 16,000 and only 1.12x weaker than Vegeta yet Vegeta clearly overpowered him. And this is BEFORE he did a huge power-up and finally got to 18,000. The normal Kaio-ken being like 1.5x is just that much easier to believe to me personally than Vegeta owning Gokū with a super tiny power difference and his grand power-up just being him increasing his Battle Power by an even tinier difference but that's just me. Not to mention Gokū is surprised he can't keep up even with the Kaio-ken x2, when he should've already known damn well he can't keep up with just that. quote metal4everIf he wasn't surprised then how was he supposed to know he'd turn huge again when he left Boo's body? Even Boo sometimes doesn't know how Boo works, let alone Gokū who has no knowledge of Boo's inner-workings. He states it's the bad air that's preventing them fron being fused but says nothing about them being small because of it. Son Gokū merely THINKS he can defeat Chibi Boo with the FP Kamehameha. This is about as proven as Cell being able to bust a solar system. Wouldn't be the first time he horribly underestimated Chibi Boo. When he first appeared they both thought even SSjin 2 Vegeta was above him. | |
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| metal4ever |
Jun 20, 11 at 6:13am ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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No, both Vegeta AND Goku think he can defeat Kid Boo. Really what the hell would be the point of giving Goku a strainful transformation that rapidly drains your ki, if your opponent is already multiple times stronger than you! The reason the transformation had so many faults and Kid Boo so many hax powers was so the audience would stay on the edge of their seat. It makes it pointless and anti-climatic if the main character never stood a chance in the first place. And please do not use the excuse "well it's the Boo saga afterall..." This is not how a story works and Toriyama was not intending fans to think Kid Boo >>>> SSj3 Goku by having them fight evenly.
Regarding Super Boo, remember that Goku told Vegeta they were still no match for him. It had nothing to do with them being small, they just can't defeat him without merging. I do think Cell could bust a star which is what he meant by destroying the solar system. Sun destroyed = Solar System gone Edit: Jun 19, 11 11:25pm ------------------- quote Newcomer | |
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| CatouttaHell |
Jun 20, 11 at 12:21pm ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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Cell busting a solar system or even a star is contradicted by Fat Boo's Kamehameha only destroying a tenth of the Earth. Fat Boo >>>> Cell so if Cell could do it, the Earth would be gone without a trace from Fat Boo's Kamehameha. It was just hyperbole IMO. Piccolo Daimao said he could destroy the world but everyone knows someone who is at 260 can't possibly do that.
The Daizenshuu said even a full power SSjni 3 Goku can't defeat Chibi Boo and nothing in the manga actually contradicts this. It seemed like Goku would defeat Perfect Cell too but later it turns out Cell was miles beyond him. All of the Boos simply want a good fight, and like with the Cell Juniors, there are those who are so close to them that they can fight on par with them (Piccolo, Vegeta) and those who will get crushed despite Chibi Boo/Cell Juniors' love of playing around (Son Gokū, Tenshinhan.) quote HermsThis heavily implies that none of them are strong enough to fight Chibi Boo one-on-one yet. And of course they STILL were no match for Shin Boo, they were still tiny as hell. There's a huge gap between them that has nothing to do with power, that they can only hope to bridge with fusion. | |
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| DragonEmperor |
Jun 20, 11 at 12:23pm ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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^Lol @ the flea arguement
Gonna do a quick run through to end this topic real quick. Let me know if I miss anything. Quote: Originally Posted by Point. 1- "They said Kid Buu was stronger! No, they didn't They were referring to Buff Buu who was formed once Vegeta removed Fat Buu. Kid Buu absorbs the South Kai, he becomes Buff Buu. He then absorbs the Dai Kai. He becomes Fat Buu. It's stated that the Dai Kai's influence weakened him, but not the Southern Kai's, hinting that it actually made him stronger. http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+42&page=70 (VIZ translation from the other thread, since I prefer that over some of this...) http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...buu3-1.jpg(all it states differently is that it confirms Buff Buu's existence) Therefore, we know that Buff Buu>Kid Buu. Now let's take a look at the transformation after Vegeta removes Fat Buu(who contains the Kai's influence...) http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+42&page=66 Oh no, he's stated to be getting stronger. It's still Super Buu in the panel on the top right, so the transformation hasn't really started yet, but it gets underway right before they make that statement. You can clearly see that Buu's arm is much thicker. Now it continues... http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+42&page=67 This is after he is stated to be "getting stronger". You can clearly see Buff Buu at the top! Goku then states he's changing again, thus given notion to a continued change, in stages(which is also what is shown visually) http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+42&page=68 Stated to be changing again, this time by Vegeta. Obviously the transformation wasn't an instant process...it happens in stages(as provided by the manga) http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+42&page=69 Well, Vegeta says they can "handle that". Don't be too quick to jump on the "midget" bandwagon, so to speak, because Frieza was a "midget" and Vegeta certainly didn't under estimate him because of his size...did he? So we have a statement here by a main character that they should be able to handle him...That's not the main argument though, it just gives credence to the fact that the transformation happened in stages, and that when he is stated to be getting stronger, it was one PHASE of the transformation, which logically is the phase that included the South Kai's influence... Also, take the weakest Kaioshins power, who could knock Frieza out with one blow, who was stronger than Piccolo was stronger than the androids(and maybe a bit stronger later on) and you can see how the strongest of the 5 kaioshins would definitely have an extreme bit of power, enough to definitely make Kid Buu stronger. He's never stated to make him weaker, that's the Dai Kai, and as the transformation is seen to happen in stages, it's very safe to assume that at first, Buff Buu is the complete power of Kid Buu/South Kai with *NO influence from the DK, while Kid Buu is the final removal of all influence from all Kais. http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+42&page=70 One more quick point, something about absorbing souls making him more tame and it's plural form meaning "two", thus giving evidence that both influences from the Kai's made KB weaker...well, it's stated "tame", which means more controllable, which was the point of Majin Buu in the first place(Bibidi to rule universe)...that doesn't mean weaker. It's directly stated in the scan provided that Dai Kai weakens him, but by his removal from mentioning, it proves that the South Kai didn't weaken him either...so it likely made him stronger. Also, see Point 5* for more details regarding any of this changing crap Quote: Originally Posted by Point. 2 "Kid Buu was just toying with Goku and could have ended it anytime he wanted. Kid Buu>>>>Goku!" Let's see, shall we? Goku completely destroys Buu, lands most of his blows, goes toe-to-toe with him and even dodges a candy blast from Buu(which would have ended the fight there, completely). In fact, it's stated from the beginning that Kid Buu is insane and is completely off the wall. Dangerous. He doesn't have it in his mental vocabulary to "slow down, suppress power". This is evident by him destroying earth from the get go. Anyway, Goku claims that no matter what he does, Buu comes back "good as new". He states this after completely oblierating him with a Kamehameha move(which would have won the fight had Buu not been a "re generator" tehehe Gotenks!) http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...me+42&page=104 They also fight evenly, and Goku states that his full power hasn't even been achieved yet... http://i55.tinypic.com/2gya7bb.jpg Thus, it's a safe bet that ssj3 Goku is at LEAST equal to Kid Buu...and he wasn't even using his full power, or able to. http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...me+42&page=131 A real quick point in regards to Goku saying "he's not even taking me seriously", he says that before they even start fighting. Goku hasn't even attempted to attack yet...Kid Buu is simply sleeping. Goku isn't even a ssj3 yet. http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+42&page=91 So, to say he was "toying" with Goku is in technique only. He was still going for the kill, as evident by his chocolate beam attack, and Goku completely obliterating him with his Kamehameha. Quote: Originally Posted by Point. 3 "Goku says he needs the potara to defeat Kid Buu!" He states that he can't get to full power, proof provided by scans earlier, and that because he's not able to get to full power, the potara would be the logical solution. As we know, Goku claims at first that they need to use the potara against Super Buu. http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+42&page=52 http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+42&page=55 Notice how mad Goku is in the second post, but in this one, he doesn't seem to be too particularly annoyed? http://i55.tinypic.com/2gya7bb.jpg he's hurt but not desperate. Now on to my next point: Goku himself turns down the potara before the fight with Kid Buu. http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+42&page=85 The line about Vegeta is semantics. He states he wants to fight him on his own, then says "anyway[I.E besides] it wouldn't matter". Why would he do this if he wasn't confident he could beat Kid Buu on his own accord? Quote: Originally Posted by Point. 4 "Kid Buu spits out Fat Buu AFTER! the fight has begun!" Semantics. They had detached Fat Buu from the pod, and he was just chilling around in his body. He had no barring on his power whatsoever, it would be like saying Super Buu gained from having Veget and Goku inside of him. He didn't. Quote: Originally Posted by Point. 5 "something, something, something about Evil Buu and Good Buu and shouldn't Super Buu be equal to Fat Buu Yea, this gets me sometimes, and it's not clearly stated and a lot has to be inferred with this, but basically you have 8(fat buu), it splits, and if it was an even split, you would get 4 and 4 and it would be an even fight. But it's shown not to be. Evil Buu dominates Good Buu. Therefore, Evil Buu must have 5, and Good Buu must have 3. He absorbs him and it's back to 8. Except it isn't. He's stated to have gotten *STRONGER* http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+41&page=31 So how do you account for this? You have to. You can't ignore it. The only way to account for it, in my personal opinion, is to say that Fat Buu was the result of the Dai Kai's influence being dominant, while Super Buu was the result of the South Kai's influence being dominate. It makes sense, and it actually is corroborated when Vegeta removes Fat Buu from Super Buu. We see the transformation take effect in stages, visually this is indisputable(proven early). That's how you explain why a split being is stronger when put back together than he was when he split. This gives credence to the fact that SK Buu>Kid Buu, unless you somehow don't believe that the SK made Buu stronger, despite the fact that the DK is the only being mentioned to have weakened Buu. This directly explains the point above about how Buff Buu was stated to be stronger, then changes back down to Kid Buu and could be weaker(and stated manageable) So yea, how do you account for Super Buu>Fat Buu without explaining the Kai influence being a factor? Quote: Originally Posted by Point. 6 "But Kid Buu is the last villain! He logically is the strongest" It's speculation, but common fan speculation(take this with a grain of salt though, please) that AT was pressured into making Goku the hero again. Numerous polls from the Daiz and what not showed Goku to be the most popular character at the time, and DB was an immensely popular series during it's initial run. It's also not the first time an author has changed the story in order to appease fans. There's little real evidence of this, other than the convoluted Buu saga itself, and a statement he makes regarding the end. Quote: Originally Posted by Mr. Akira Toriyama! I truly thank you for faithfully reading Dragon Ball for so terribly long. I’m very grateful for how you all supported me up until the very end. The truth is that I decided on this a long time ago but a lot happened, so please forgive me for announcing this so suddenly. For this new step in my life, I’ve asked a big favor of everyone concerned and am ending this manga. Of course, I humbly apologize to all you fans too. I'm very sorry. From now on, I think I will take a little break, and then leisurely draw one-shot works. You’ll definitely see me again. I think it (should) certainly be interesting, so look forward to it! Well, until that day, this is goodbye. Let’s meet again. There are *SLIGHT undertones of pressure, but like I said, take it with a grain of salt. It's certainly an explanation for why the Buu saga gets so convoluted. Also notice how he apologizes, and says that he had it planned for a while but "a lot happened". It's speculation, but a logical one. Anyway, how this ties in is this: Goku has to be the hero. Goku is weaker than Gotenks/Gohan, thus Kid Buu has to also be weaker in order to match up against Goku. It's just a logical speculation if you put the pieces together, but it also adds to the theory and completely discredits the "last villain" argument. Sure Gohan could have whooped Kid Buu, but that's not what the fans wanted to see. They wanted to see Goku at his strongest save the day. How could Goku do that if he was going up against much more powerful incarnations of villains? He was stated to not be able to beat Fat Buu earlier, so Goku's statement later on is a retcon in order to explain him fighting against Buu now. That also gives credence to the "fan cave in pressure" theory. But, all of this should be taken with a grain of salt and I'm merely adding on. ------------------------------ Okay, so that ends that. Now we get back to basics, Goku states that Super Buu is too strong for him... http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+42&page=52 As a quick FOOT NOTE....let's examine something that isn't a direct argument, but a good little quip, my boy GOTENKS! The Grim Reaper of Justice. I'm surprised he doesn't get brought up more often in this argument. http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+40&page=10 http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+40&page=48 http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...ume+40&page=63 Numerous statements by Goku that suggest Gotenks>himself, or at the very least, Gotenks Fat Buu, who was comparable to ssj3 Goku. Granted, Gotenks Base loses badly to Fat Buu, but all that shows is that Base Gotenks is comparable to a ssj2(he only got beat as badly as Vegeta did) and anyway, it's irrelevant. When Goku is making his statements in regards to Gotenks, he is referring to their max power, which would obviously be Super Saiyan, seeing as Goku knows the boys can go Super Saiyan. He doesn't know they can go ssj3. He is shocked they can, so this gives evidence that Goku is referring to SSJ Gotenks when he says that Gotenks is stronger than himself. http://view.thespectrum.net/series/d...me+41&page=102 Anyway, all this is leading to is Super Saiyan Gotenks>=<ssj3 Goku. IDC if he's exactly equal, or a little weaker or stronger, it's not by much based on statements and the Goku's fight with Fat Buu. This is also PRE-ROAST(hahah). Post-ROAST(can't resist now lol) Gotenks is even STRONGER! So all of this combines to say that, Gotenks is of comparable strength to Goku's max.. So....what I'm getting at is, ssj Gotenks=ssj3 Goku, so obviously ssj3 Gotenks is 8x stronger(using the LOW SEG multipliers, which most people don't even agree with), and ssj3 Gotenks fights evenly with Super Buu. Therefore, Super Buu is 8x stronger than ssj3 Goku. For Kid Buu to be stronger than Super Buu he would have to be more than 8x stronger than Goku, and based on their fight, that's not shown to be the case, at all. All in all, it still comes down to the simple logic that... Quote: Originally Posted by Danzer Goku says he is weaker then super buu Goku < super buu Goku says he is stronger then kid buu at full power Goku > Kid Buu Super Buu > Kid Buu its simple logic -petewentz ------------------- ![]() Kamiccolo is my love slave | |
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| Cooler |
Jun 20, 11 at 12:35pm ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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Kid Buu > Goku, Goku say's he wants to fight Kid Buu again after he himself (Goku) has improved greatly.
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| DragonEmperor |
Jun 20, 11 at 12:40pm ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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Goku could've beaten kid buu if he didn't play around too much, pretty selfish of Goku when he knows the SSJ3 strains his body more than it does when he's alive
------------------- ![]() Kamiccolo is my love slave | |
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| CatouttaHell |
Jun 20, 11 at 12:51pm ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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quote DragonEmperorProve it. Son Gokū said he wants to fight Chibi Boo again after he improves greatly. quote DragonEmperorUm, no. He had no idea what a problem SSjin 3 was in a living body. | |
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| Cooler |
Jun 20, 11 at 12:57pm ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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quote DragonEmperorHe stated he'd been trying to finish Kid Buu all along. Plus there's the numerous times Goku's mentioned training so he can fight Kid Buu again etc... | |
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| DragonEmperor |
Jun 20, 11 at 1:12pm ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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quote Cooler ------------------- ![]() Kamiccolo is my love slave | |
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| CatouttaHell |
Jun 20, 11 at 1:15pm ^
re: CatouttaHell's Battle Powers List
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Wait so was Gokū not able to defeat Chibi Boo because he's selfish and played around too much, or because he didn't have the opportunity to because Boo was all over his arse? Which one are you arguing?
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