Were saiyans really that weak

No, Saiyans as a whole were considered a very strong species, stronger than most. Raditz at a battle power of just 1500 was still strong enough to go around and wipe out entire planets' civilizations all on his own. Nappa at (officially) 4000 was a Saiyan elite, high and above most others. Battle Powers like Bardock's 10,000-ish and Vegeta's 18,000 were rarities, due to the former abusing the healing boosts for his entire career and the latter being royal blood.

Folks with even higher battle powers like Zarbon and Dodoria were simply the best of the best of the best, and thus hand-picked by Freeza to be his top soldiers. The Ginyu Force were mutants born with exceptional power and special abilities. And Freeza himself (likewise from a family of super-powerful mutants, if I recall) was considered an insurmountable god-like being, the uncontested strongest in the entire universe... at "only" 530,000.

Don't be fooled by how the stronger people from the later portions of the series rocketed into the millions or even billions. They're the freaks of nature with "impossible" power. The Super Saiyan is "legendary" for a reason. But all these other people I've mentioned, including the former Saiyan race as a whole, are by no means "weak" because of that.

quote theweaktrulydie

I thought Raditz was at the PL of a saibamen as said in the manga so they were at 1200

The Saibaimen were said to "rival" Raditz, which means he'd be somewhat stronger than them. But that's not really the topic at hand here... I hope I managed to answer your question.

Oh, and don't forget that even if they seemed weak compared to some other races or individuals... they have the giant ape transformation they can make. Which would instantly make them 10 times stronger.

quote theweaktrulydie

I had a debate with some guy and he said

"Saiyans at best were 200-500, 600"

He's wrong. Very, very wrong. Raditz is all the proof you need, really. Not to mention Nappa. Most Saiya-jins should have been around the 900-2,000 range.

Well Goku and Raditz were not average saiyans. They were low level. Goku didn't grow up in a planet with 10x gravity, so of course he is going to be weaker than every other saiyan ever..

quote theweaktrulydie

I thought Raditz was at the PL of a saibamen as said in the manga so they were at 1200

And Nappa should be at 8000 because Goku's PL at base was 8000 and in the manga Goku said he couldnt believe he had to use kaioken on him. if nappa was 4000 he would have been destroyed faster. Goku's at 8000 though

Yeah, the daiz has its errors. Raditz needs to rival the Saibas so in the 1200 range, and the fact he received damage and was afraid of things with PL's only in the 1,300's further cements the idea he is 1200-1300

Nappa, same thing he needs to be closer to 8000. All I gotta say is dont let the daiz warp your views.

He could've been bragging/exaggerating to feel better about himself. Not to say he was but it's not like Vegeta or Nappa were there to correct him. I think the huge gap between Goku (Pre-Kaio-sama) and Raditz could very well indicate that he wasn't that low on the totem pole though.

quote xxskelterxx

1200 is pathetic.

Yeah, but 1500 isn't so bad.

Anyway, Raditz certainly isn't an elite or high-class. He just declared himself a "top-class warrior" or something similar at some point. Which is something I'm sure pretty much every Saiyan would consider themselves. But it's not the same as being an actual born-n'-bred elite like Nappa.

Goku, however, was just pathetic at the time compared to other Saiyans. IMO, that's mostly due to spending his life on (relatively) peaceful and comfy li'l Earth, which is such a nice environment that it'd seem like a vacation spot compared to Planet Vegeta. But once he trained in an environment with similar gravity and such, he excelled.