base goten and trunk might > piccolo - Page 20

quote Victorious

Yeah that's how it works for me as well...except I believe the acquisition of MSSJ completely changes the multiplier for SSJ. And although MSSJ's multiplier is way lower than SSJs...it should not be looked upon by SSJ getting worse...just the base getting ridiculously powerful.

Really? Damn, I thought I was the first to come up with the whole "new transformations = new potential for all forms" theory. As for MSSJ multiplier, well, to each their own. Kaboom managed to convince me that the boost never changed from 50x (I was always on the fence about that TBH) but I guess it's going to take a lot to convince people like you and p123 to jump ship on that one. The main thing that makes it difficult is fusions, and how to make the 50x boost work for them, or if they even have the 50x boost at all. I'm working on it, though.

quote xxskelterxx

Well, i am proud to say that i never for once even believed that the boost magically lowered to 5x in the boo arc. That's stupid.

I've always been a 50x guy.

Yeah, well I guess you could say that I've always been a 50x guy at heart, but I started using 5x anyway because nobody would take me seriously otherwise. I guess that's still going to be the case now that I'm reintroducing 50x into my numbers, but it's gotten to the point where I just don't give a *bleep* anymore.

quote xxskelterxx

To tell you the truth, i always laughed at the guys who had it at 5x times...Even if i was the only one that believed it was 50x...

And we all laugh at you Skelter...

Both 50x and a smaller boost (not necessarily 5x) are plausible.

- Kili sequence
- Base Saiyans Piccolo

All make it plausible that the SSJ boost was lower. Regardless you never accept the plausibility of the othersides view...

quote Victorious

Yeah I use a 4x boost, like G_O_G_E_T_A....based on the kili sequence.

I have it at 4x because is works better when looking at Gotenks; Super Saiyan boost. His base form was already SSJ2-rivalling (which SSJ2 he rivals is up for debate I guess) pre-ROSAT, and IMO, throwing a 50x boost on top of that for Super Saiyan is completely unnecessary and quite frankly, never suggested in the manga. And since it was never suggested that fusions have differing Super Saiyan boosts either, I keep all Super Saiyans at 4x base in the Buu arc. That entire arc overall never gave me the impression that the Super Saiyan boost was anywhere near as staggering as it was back on Namek.

The fused being still remains a Saiyan as well however, regardless of the techniques used. I just don't see the point of having such a high Super Saiyan multiplier any more in the Buu arc, the power increases would get way too huge. Gotenks suggests that the boosts aren't that huge any more, and that is enough for me. Factually it could be anything, but I for one don't see a 50x boost work any more. Whether full-power Super Saiyan is the reason for that or not I don't know, but yes, I think the boost lowered massively.

quote xxskelterxx

You make it sounds like i am the other only that finds a lower boost. Magically, somehow ssj powers transfers to the saiyans base form.
Base Saiyans piccolo is something fans just pulled out of their ___ IMO. Nothing indicates that.
As i said before, The killi system is unreliable, it could be read in some many different ways..
Its obvious is system meant to be read differently.
Goku was 180k againt Ginyu, but he only 3k as a ssj against Dabura?
Yes, that's the system im going to base my argument on. Right.

The implications for the Base Saiyans > Piccolo are there in the Manga, a case can be made against it but to say there's nothing in the Mangs that suggests it is foolish.

Occams Razor says that we should assume the numbers go up like we'd expect. After all if they can use the same numbers as us why should we expect them to follow a different system of progression.

LOL at using Goku at 180,000 to try an debunk it. Anyone can see that 1 kili is obviously equal to a very large number of the standard units we saw in the Freeza saga for measuring ki.

Goku was measured at 3000 kili, he was supressed judging by him powering up to stay a SSJ when Yakon was sucking the energy away but if he was supressed to a tiny fraction of his full SSJ power SSJ2 wouldn't have been needed to blow Yakon away. The kili meter may have been maxed out but if that was the case surely with such an advanced instrument and the likes of Badidi would have noted it. The reading was 3000 kili, so there's no grounds to say it was actually 10x higher than that and the machine just couldn't read it.

Sorry but you're dead wrong if you think there aren't implications which point to a smaller SSJ boost, it's not factual by any means but it's rather ignorant to protest there's no evidence.