Goku Namek saga pre zenkai vs Vegeta namek saga post zenkai? - Page 2

I doubt Super Kaioken is SSJ and KKx20, it's probably SSJ and KKx2...


If Goku 20 folded his strength, Pikkon would surely be dead...


And Goku is using MSSJ here, IMO there is no way it's a 50x boost, I have MSSJ as a 4x boost...

Unless you think Pikkon increased his power over 50 times when he dropped his weights of course...

Oh ok didn't know what you meant. Sounds good...

Goku squashes Vegeta easily.

In their original fight, Vegeta was way ahead of Goku in base, and Goku still took the decisive upper hand with the Kaioken technique (KKx3).

Goku can fight in Kaioken x 10...and would be putting out 900,000 which is close to Freeza's second form and far ahead of Vegeta.

Goku goes into Kaioken x 10 and one shots Vegeta.

Now, if this is post Krillin blast/Dende heal zenkai for Vegeta, Vegeta easily wins.

quote xxskelterxx

Well, i 4x boost for super seems stupid to me. Why would Goku not use a kaioken x20 and blow his ssj out of the water?

This is why I don't have the SSJ boost once MSSJ is reached as any lower than 10x. Sure, growing ten times in power by dropping weights is a lot to fathom, but so is Goku's lack of Kaioken usage; Instead of a 4x boost for SSJ, why not just use 10x or 20x for Kaioken? Even if he couldn't keep up 10x for long periods of time, why not 5-6x?

quote G_O_G_E_T_A

Goku wins if it's Vegeta right after he obtained his Zenkai. The reason I think that is Vegeta chose to let Goku and Ginyu fight it out and take off to get the Dragonballs. It looked as if he fled the scene, whereas I'm sure he would have taken both Goku and Ginyu out if he had the necessary power to do so. After his nap though, Goku wouldn't stand a chance unless he used the Kaioken into the multi-folds, and even that remains to be seen.

This is post nap Vegeta and post 100x gravity Goku

Goku in Kaioken x 10 should be 900K and he actually stated that he could put out a Kaioken x 10 after he completed his training....he might be able to do 20 fold...I dunno...But it's possible..but I like to see his final zenkai as putting his body high enough to do a 20 fold..since he was doing a 10 fold against Freeza very easily with little strain.

Vegeta's max here should be around 500k give or take a few.

Goku does a Kaioken x 10 and he'd probably one shot Vegeta...hell he crippled Nappa in two blows when he had about that type of gap on Nappa in KKx2, as KKx10 Goku here would have on Vegeta.

In the saiyan arc Vegeta was way ahead of Goku's base..well over twice as strong..and that didnt prevent Goku from kicking his ass in KKx3.

So yeah

KKx10 Goku >>> Vegeta

Even though I seems to agree, but what does that make base Goku in Buu saga then?

Yakon = 800
SSJ Goku = 3.000

So if we still have SSJ = 50x in Buu saga, that makes base Goku 60, if so then Yakon should've been able to crush him easily, but it contradicted by the manga itself, Goku was shown to be able to avoid his attacks and was confident. Note he was even confident in his base form...

Or could it be possible that 3.000 is suppressed SSJ? But if so, why didn't he just power up to his max instead of SSJ2?

Kaioken is not just retconned out. Super saiyan was just a better way. Cell never said he could do a kaioken, just a genki-dama. Yet, he never did.