What if Vegeta did transform into Super Saiyan during his battle vs Frieza? - Page 7

quote ShyGuy01001

So what then, Gohan was using his full power when he was at "half power" vs SPC?

No, Gohan was holding back. He wasn't outputting his full power because he was concerned about damaging/destroying the planet. That's entirely different.

quote ShyGuy01001

Gohan and Frieza and even Piccolo vs Radditzs show us that it is possible to tap into 100% full complete power, not some odd percentage of what their full power really is.

You're still failing to understand the definition of "full power". Full power can vary depending on your level of fatigue, damage, stamina or health. Absolute maximum, healthy, fresh full power (what you're referring to) is different to just full power.

quote ShyGuy01001

It's like benching, for example. Your max is 250lbs. You do 10 reps and your body gets really exhausted and it becomes very difficult for you to achieve your 250. But that doesn't mean your strength is now only that of someone who can lift 150lbs.

Well yeah, that's exactly what it means. Your muscles require energy to work to their fullest capabilities, and the less energy you have, the weaker you are. Simple science.

quote ShyGuy01001

Your true strength is lifting 250lbs, and with enough concentration and will you can achieve it again, if only momentarily.

No, that's rubbish. Concentration can be used to focus energy, but not just magically generate it. Burning energy means you need to eat/rest/heal/recuperate before you can get more of it. The longer you go without those things, the weaker/more tired you become.

Freeza's 100% power was him using all of his body's remaining energy. That does not mean he magically had access to the energy he previously lost due to damage/fatigue.

quote ShyGuy01001

But do you work out? You should know then that it is in fact completely possible you to reach your max after an intense workout.

Yes I do work out. A lot.

Maximum amount you can lift before an intense workout >>> Maximum amount you can lift directly after an intense workout.

Energy is what allows you to make your muscles work to their fullest capabilities. After a workout, you have used a lot of energy, so you physically cannot push your muscles as far.

It depends on how intense the workout is, but the chain generally goes like this:

Maximum straining strength (Fresh) >> Maximum non-straining strength (Fresh) > or < Maximum straining strength (Tired) >> Maximum non-straining strength (Tired).

IMO, Freeza's maximum straining power is 140 million, but his maximum fatigued straining power (The one depicted in the story) is only 120 million.

quote Fizzledark

Didn't we go off trail? From "can Vegeta SSJ (Namek) beat Frieza" to "What's Frieza's full power PL?"?

Well whether Vegeta can beat Freeza depends on what Freeza's full power battle power is.

quote SgtMartin

quote Sleazy Freeza

@ Topic

I have it like this:

Vegeta (Post Dende Heal): 2,400,000
~ Theoretical SSJ Vegeta: 120,000,000

Goku: 3,000,000
~ Worn Out (Post Genki Dama): 2,500,000
~ Worn Out SSJ: 125,000,000
~ Theoretical Fresh SSJ: 150,000,000

100% Freeza (Battle Worn): 120,000,000
~ Theoretical Fresh 100% Freeza: 140,000,000

The power levels that are bolded are the ones that were never actually shown.

I definitely don't think that Goku and Freeza were fighting at their fullest capabilities as SSJ/100%. IMO, they were both very worn from their previous fight; Goku from being the weaker of the two/taking a beating, and Freeza from recieving a Genki Dama to the face.

That said, I do believe that a theoretical SSJ Vegeta would win against the battle worn 100% Freeza that Goku fought, due to his superior skill and the fact that 100% is straining/unstable, but would lose if Freeza was fresh (not without a hell of fight though).

I agree. Just because goku wasn't on the ground not breathing doesn't mean that he was done fighting. Both goku and frieza took a beating. When they both powered up, their battle wounds just don't go away. A cut to leg or chest is still a cut to the leg or to the chest and you will all ways feel it no matter how strong you are. They might have more kai but they still are not at 100 percent new. However they are at 100 percent of what they could handle at that time.

I don't see how Goku was battle worn at all until at least after Freeza goes 100 percent, the SSJ transformation seemed to give him back all his strength and energy.

in the manga frieza was pwned by SSJ Goku easily

blame the filler on anime.

quote Victorious

quote SgtMartin

quote Sleazy Freeza

@ Topic

I have it like this:

Vegeta (Post Dende Heal): 2,400,000
~ Theoretical SSJ Vegeta: 120,000,000

Goku: 3,000,000
~ Worn Out (Post Genki Dama): 2,500,000
~ Worn Out SSJ: 125,000,000
~ Theoretical Fresh SSJ: 150,000,000

100% Freeza (Battle Worn): 120,000,000
~ Theoretical Fresh 100% Freeza: 140,000,000

The power levels that are bolded are the ones that were never actually shown.

I definitely don't think that Goku and Freeza were fighting at their fullest capabilities as SSJ/100%. IMO, they were both very worn from their previous fight; Goku from being the weaker of the two/taking a beating, and Freeza from recieving a Genki Dama to the face.

That said, I do believe that a theoretical SSJ Vegeta would win against the battle worn 100% Freeza that Goku fought, due to his superior skill and the fact that 100% is straining/unstable, but would lose if Freeza was fresh (not without a hell of fight though).

I agree. Just because goku wasn't on the ground not breathing doesn't mean that he was done fighting. Both goku and frieza took a beating. When they both powered up, their battle wounds just don't go away. A cut to leg or chest is still a cut to the leg or to the chest and you will all ways feel it no matter how strong you are. They might have more kai but they still are not at 100 percent new. However they are at 100 percent of what they could handle at that time.

I don't see how Goku was battle worn at all until at least after Freeza goes 100 percent, the SSJ transformation seemed to give him back all his strength and energy.

Its basically how I worded in my last quote. The cuts and burses dont go just cause you power up. I don't see how it wouldn't.

I say vegeta would lose since vegeta doesn't have kaioken to keep up with frieza in base form or a power attack like genki dama. Vegeta might die before being able to transform to SSJ.

Even if vegeta transform into SSJ, vegeta SSJ would be weaker than goku since

goku base > vegeta so
SSJ goku >> SSJ vegeta

Frieza thought SSJ goku evenly well, since vegeta is weaker then frieza might win at 100%.

I also believe its possible to achieve full 100% power while damaged or bruise just that its harder to use and shortens the duration of being able to use 100% full power.