This subject has been deleted

Forum Options:	my.neoforum register members prefs search faq

Topic: This subject has been deleted Options: Print subscribe remove NeoPM
Threads List « Next Newest Next Oldest »
Sir Infamous Neo-newbie total posts: -131 since: Mar 2010	Dec 28, 10 at 4:21pm ^ This subject has been deleted
	Log in to remove this sponsored message This message has been deleted Edit: Jan 04, 11
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
XxSkelterXx “Dubito ergo cogito; cogito ergo sum. Permanently Plugged In total posts: 13250 since: Aug 2010	Dec 28, 10 at 4:39pm ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	I was going to say pre-zenkai, well, maybe around 30,000,000..i don't know...has to be one hell of a zenaki for him to be around 150,000,000....
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
superskullmaster Broly Fans Swallow. member: postin' posse since: Jun 2009	Dec 29, 10 at 1:00am ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	Man you people wont let this topic go will you. If he is rediculous after the zenkai he is rediculous before it. Damagewise he was worse off after Vegeta beat the hell out of his body in the Frieza saga and we saw what kind of Zenkai he got then, so since he wasn't as badly damaged from that backshot id say he was 1/4 or so of post at 37,500,000 or so. ------------------- Chuck Norris can cut through a hot knife with butter.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
astrallite threadnought total posts: 624 since: Feb 2007	Dec 29, 10 at 5:45am ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	Well, Goku was fighting naturally at Kaioken x10 in the Freeza saga. There was no KK aura until Goku revved up to x20. So maybe 15,000,000 is his base in Movie 10? Of course this would make his SSJ form at 750,000,000, which would crush the Androids...but that's another topic.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
Goku starting to like it since: Oct 2010	Dec 29, 10 at 6:56am ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	Your numbers pretty much look identical to the way I see it. I've only thought about changing how strong meta was post because he seemed to tank hits unmoved, but that could be to do with his metal body. He also took what looked like a kamehameha to the body without damage. And once he was serious he looked like he could kill the saiyans in a few hits. But regardless he was defeated by sheer force in the end so his power must be within their range. I like where you've got pre zenkai goku, its perfect to fit with the Frieza saga magnitude zenkais. I'm waiting for P123 to come online and have a look at some of the debates, but it seems like hes was taking a mini break yesterday.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
G_O_G_E_T_A Vocare Ad Regnum (moderator) Dragonball total posts: 16060 since: May 2006	Dec 29, 10 at 10:25am ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	quote Sir Infamous and plays a little game of instantaneous movement with KKx20 Goku. Have you by any chance seen the original version? Because the versions I've seen (like 4 or 5 different ones) all fail to mention what Kaioken he used. But from a logical POV Goku using a 20-fold would be plausible enough for Cooler to totally pick apart, since not even Super Saiyan Goku (whom I'd always give a 50x multiplier as long as he isn't a FPSSJ yet, which he wasn't in movie 6), could do jack to him, even before Cooler's power increased when he regenerated that arm Goku tore off. quote Sir Infamous I put them at about 80 and 85 percent of Meta Cooler after his upgrade. Which by my numbers is like Piccolo and Android 17 fighting Imperfect Cell after he absorbs the humans. Only a 15-20% gap between #17/Piccolo and Cell post humans absorption? That's what I had in mind too before I looked at that Gekiretsu Kodan segment more closely, after which I reconsidered. Piccolo was a bit winded after fighting #17 but by no means was it suggested he had already lost tons of ki, so when he fired that blast at Cell, I want to bet he wasn't that far removed from being at full power. Now given the situation they were in with Cell having far outclassed them by absorbing so many humans, it would make sense for Piccolo to put everything he had into the Gekiretsu Kodan in an attempt to take Cell out. In fact, I want to bet the Gekiretsu Kodan at that point was at the least the 2nd most powerful attack he could muster, only possibly safe from the Special Beam Cannon (which he probably didn't opt to use because it's a drastically narrowed down beam that is easy to dodge, and above all things, Piccolo wanted to make sure he'd hit Cell at least), but despite that, Cell didn't even have a scratch on him; zero damage. If you ask me, for him to take an attack that strong (possibly several times stronger than Piccolo's own power), and be completely unaffected, it suffices to say that Cell was waaaaaaay above Piccolo in power, more than 15-20% if you ask me.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
Cooler Still Seekin' total posts: 3803 since: Dec 2009	Dec 29, 10 at 2:17pm ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	I wouldn't be surprised if Imperfect Cell post humans was 40% or more stronger than Piccolo and #17.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
G_O_G_E_T_A Vocare Ad Regnum (moderator) Dragonball total posts: 16060 since: May 2006	Dec 30, 10 at 10:46am ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	quote Sir Infamous As far as the Piccolo ki attack, yeah that's a problem, but there are other attacks like Vegeta's pseudo final Flash on Recoome that did little physical damage to Recoome other than mess up his cloths, and i doubt Recoome was 2 or 3 times stronger than Vegeta. Something I did also notice about the Gekiretsu Kodan was the immense radius that it had; it completely engulfed what was left of the island #17 and Piccolo were fighting on, not just Cell. So what I'm thinking is that it could have easily been amplified several folds, but due to the width of the blast, all that ki was distributed among the entire radius of it, meaning Cell didn't catch the full brunt of it. That would explain why he was completely unharmed, and it wouldn't make it necessary for Cell to be like 2/3x stronger than Piccolo and #17. quote Sir Infamous I have the Japanese version with English subs, and Goku does not mention the Kaioken he goes into, it's just like movie 5. But he's definitely in Kaioken so it must be x 20 IMO. I dunno about must be, especially considering he initiated the Kaioken pretty much right off the bat unlike in the previous movie where he first fought Cooler "normally" for a bit, but since it doesn't contradict anything you won't get any arguments from me. 20x Kaioken Goku would be childsplay for that Meta Cooler anyway considering it's more powerful than even Super Saiyan Goku.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
p123 Permanently Plugged In total posts: 14122 since: Dec 2009	Jan 01, 11 at 1:43pm ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	Movie 5 Mecha Freeza/King Cold coming to Earth never happened IMO in this movie. How could it? The movie and the concept came out way before Mecha was put into the story. Movie 5 was made during the time of the Freeza vs Goku fight , exactly after the episode of the invisible Kaioken nonsense. Also not to mention, Gohan has a tail, Goku cannot access SSJ of free will, which means Goku never went to Yardrat and you know what, Vegeta not being there could indicate that in Movie 5, Vegeta could be dead. I like to think of movies as alternate universes. Nothing to me suggests that Trunks had arrived, or that they were training for Androids. You would think they wouldn't be going camping if they knew crazy androids with higher than SSJ power were coming to crush them soon. So, Movie 5's continuity ends after the Freeza fight. That's it. IMO at least. Piccolo 3,000,000 Base Goku 3,500,000 As you can see based on both of there fights with Cooler's Squadron, Piccolo and Goku have near identical fights with the three. You can see Goku does marginally better, but I see no need to make Goku way superior to Piccolo here. Cooler's Squadron are likely ridicolously strong, as most movie henchmen are. We don't have to like it, but for the feats shown, you can only accept it, or twist logic that isn't really kosher to appease your unlike. Bojack's men are like MSSJ tier, and Cooler's squadron are in the low millions I would think , as much as it sucks of course. But hey that's what the movies are about. So like I said before no Yardrat, means no Mecha/King Cold, means that Goku does not have to be > Yardrat , pre zenkai. You can make Goku as strong as you want but don't forget Piccolo should be somewhere close to Base Goku Pre Zenkai as well. So this leads us to..... Pre Zenkai Base Goku 3,500,000 PostZenkai Base Goku 150,000,000 ZOMG, that's a huge increase! But wait...... Pre Zenkai Base Goku 90,000 PostZenkai Base Goku 3,000,000 Hmmm.... They seem very similar don't they? In Movie 5 Goku would receive nearly a 50x zenkai, and in the Freeza Arc he receives a 33x zenkai. Seeing the timing of the movie, in which would probably be using Freeza Saga logic based on several factors, and seeing how a 33x increase is a normalcy in the Freeza Saga, I have no qualms with a situation like this. SSJ Goku 7,500,000,000 FF Cooler 4,700,000,000 KKx20 Goku 3,000,000,000 KKx10 Goku 1,500,000,000 Base Goku 150,000,000 Cooler 140,000,000 Simple mathematics here. If you have a problem with that, it's probably because you don't want Goku to be so strong. But it's just a movie, increases like this are pretty normal in TOEI's world. Movie 6 Meta Cooler Post 10,000,000,000 Meta Cooler Pre 9,000,000,000 SSJ Goku 8,500,000,000 SSJ Vegeta 8,250,000,000 Kamiccolo IRRELEVANT As you can see I just used a modest increase for Goku from Movie 5 to Movie 6. This is heavily influenced by me wanting to end Cooler up with a cool number that's even like that like a 10 billion number. So this is going to be biased to an extent. The increases Goku gained from Movie 5 to Movie 6 could be way beyond that. But I actually am not too aware of the actual word for word details, perhaps someone could display them. All I know is Goku Movie 6 > Goku Movie 5. I think Cooler's hard body was brought up, which means the power doesn't have to be overwhemlingly different, so I'm ok with the rather close spacing.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
G_O_G_E_T_A Vocare Ad Regnum (moderator) Dragonball total posts: 16060 since: May 2006	Jan 01, 11 at 2:38pm ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	^ Was there any indication given as to how much time passed in between the two Cooler movies? I always assumed that Goku had improved pretty vastly in that timeframe but of course the amount of time he had to attain that power decides it. As for the Meta Coolers, they were heavily reinforced with all that additional metal of course; but even before the arm repair sequence (which was stated to have increased Cooler's power even more), I do recall seeing Cooler flatout outbrawl Super Saiyan Goku without Goku actually landing any hits, meaning that in that particular shootout, Cooler's metal reinforced body wasn't the reason why Goku couldn't at least beat it down/overpower it. IMO that Meta Cooler was already > Super Saiyan Goku before it even regenerated and powered up as a result. But it might have been a relatively small gap...
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
p123 Permanently Plugged In total posts: 14122 since: Dec 2009	Jan 01, 11 at 2:41pm ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	Yea Meta COoler Pre >= Goku .... THe amount of increase from 5 to 6? I would say minimally, I think TOEI perhaps got on board with the slow down AT attributed from Post Freeza to Androids Saga type of stuff... THey probably were like oh damn, we powered Goku up way beyond what AT has been doing in the manga, oops...But that's just me... All we know is that Movie 6 mimics Goku/Vegeta vs Android 19 scenario.. So if anything I would have.... Movie 6 ~ Androids Saga Movie 5 ~ Trunks Saga Kind of scenario. So Movie 5 is one year after Namek, and Movie 6 is 3 years after that I would think...
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
G_O_G_E_T_A Vocare Ad Regnum (moderator) Dragonball total posts: 16060 since: May 2006	Jan 01, 11 at 2:51pm ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	I had a 10-15% increase in mind for Goku in between movies 5 and 6. With his ki implied to be that absurdly high due to the whole movie 5 situation, I'd say that's more than enough to make Cooler say that Goku had improved (or whatever it was he said, definitely something of the sorts).
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
G_O_G_E_T_A Vocare Ad Regnum (moderator) Dragonball total posts: 16060 since: May 2006	Jan 02, 11 at 11:02am ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	quote Sir Infamous They were relatively close, it only lasted for like 30 seconds with Cooler maybe having a slight advantage and then Cooler kicked Goku a mile away, Goku came flying back and smashed off Cooler's arm. After that the Gete upgrades Cooler and regenerates his arm. SSJ Goku takes a severe ass-whipping, and so does SSJ Vegeta. Yeah, but you may have noticed that Goku put everything he had into that strike that tore Cooler's arm off, plus he also had tons of momentum coming in since he flew into Cooler from miles away. Just the fact that Goku was forced to such drastic measures insinuate that he was on a disadvantage. Cooler's regeneration and subsequent power increase only increased the gap even further.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
p123 Permanently Plugged In total posts: 14122 since: Dec 2009	Jan 03, 11 at 12:17pm ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	Good work Sir Infamous... Piccolo and Base Goku Pre Zenkai I would have to check out again, I thought based on there fights against all 3 , Goku did better. But I could be wrong. Either way, they shouldn't be that far off from each other... The thing is, I don't think TOEI was aware of Yardrat/IT/Mecha/King Cold scenario... Because it never occurred. For Movie 6 they included IT , but there's no reason to think that Goku had IT in Movie 5, or that he went to Yardrat. It's a different universe, and we have to try to tie them in together better than what I offered. But I'm on the right track... Perhaps Goku went to Yardrat between Movie 5 and 6 then? Who knows...
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
Mishimi Neo: Essential total posts: 12517 since: Sep 2008	Jan 04, 11 at 8:22pm ^ re: This subject has been deleted
	quote Sir Infamous This message has been deleted This message was edited by Sir Infamous on Jan 04 2011. Uhhhhh..... Ok..... In the future don't make a habit of posting threads and then changing the OP and thread subject like that please, if you wanted it closed just request closure rather than that... Thread closed
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
[All dates in (PST) time]	Threads List « Next Newest Next Oldest »

Thread title	From	Last replied
Now searching...

Hobbies

Sports

Skills

Chat and Lounges

Game Platforms

Mobile Platforms

Top Core Games

Top Portable Games

Top Communities