Cooler's True Power

I know this comes up way to much here but this one in particular bugs me alot. So much so that I decided to go pretty in depth with why I think Cooler wasn't as strong and the majority thinks.

Evidence 1: In general everyone seems to agree with the percent differences and thier effects on the fight. So with this in mind courtesy of P123:

100% = Exact equals
95 + = Rivals
90-95% Slight Edge to Dominant Edge
80-89% Varying beat down
70-75 One shot to several shot range

Okay thats fine and dandy, and if its one thing I hate is when people use something to thier advantage and ignore it later when it hurts them. So let me get to the point.

Salza vs Piccolo: Ok we all agree that Piccolo had the advantage the entire time right, so if this Piccolo is = to Manga/Anime Namek Saga Piccolo we know his PL is more than 1,000,000 but less than 1,500,000. That puts Salza (assuming Piccolo is 1,500,000) using the P123 Formula at 1,425,000 at the most and 1,350,000 at the least. Ok thats fine. Now here is where my point is made. First of all Cooler shoots Piccolo with a blast that should have killed him seeing as there is no implying that Cooler knows how to hold back or supress power within a form like Frieza does. If Cooler was at 140,000,000 or so lets pit him against Piccolo again. Cooler is 93.33X STRONGER than Piccolo in this case. Put in a percentage thats Piccolo at 1.07% of Coolers power which is WELL into the one shot range, hell thats the spit on and kill range.

To add insult to injury incase you take that with a grain of salt we have Salza vs Goku(Healed). Ok Goku is stronger than Cooler at this point we know because Cooler had to transform. But remember Salza hit Goku in the face. Goku actually felt it, his head didn't turn much but his cheek caved in. Of course then Goku powered up and ONE SHOTTED Salza with nothing but powering up. So Cooler can't 1 shot Piccolo even though he's almost 100 times stronger but Goku powers up and knocks Salza out for a long as time.

To put that in perspective most people have LSSJ Broly at best 3 times stronger than MSSJ Goku and nothing in movie 8 EVER caused Broly to be pushed or moved or damaged until the gut punch. So if 3X stronger=TOTAL DOMINATION what the hell does 93X stronger=?

Evidence 2: Base Goku vs Super Cooler: Ok with those gaps of power in mind from above we arrive at Goku vs Cooler. Now if you take the 50x base for SSJ seriously your forced to boost Super Cooler's power to nutjob levels and there lies the problem. Base Goku and Super Cooler have a much bigger gap between them than Namek Base Goku and 50% Freiza did and Goku held his own better against Cooler. Basically what i mean is if Super Cooler were really 40X stronger than his Final form there is no way Goku would have withstood even one punch. NOT ONE. Again this goes back to the Broly movie and the 3X stronger than MSSJ that I was refering to. I mean a percentage gap is a gap no matter how big the powers are. If your at 500 and fight someone at 1000 its the same as someone at 50,000 fighting someone at 100,000 or someone at 5,000,000 fighting someone at 10,000,000.

Thats really all I got. But by my best guess and really you can't forget THATS WHAT WERE ALL DOING. You can jazz it up with whatever logic you want but were all guessing, but yea by my best guess its more like this.

Goku before Cooler backshot: 9,000,000
Goku healed after Cooler backshot: 18,000,000
Goku Kaioken x10: 180,000,000
Goku after Cooler beating & Kaioken's: 9,000,000
SSJ Goku: 450,000,000
Cooler: 17,000,000
Super Cooler: 425,000,000 (Cooler x25)

CLOSING

This way everything works, since there is no way to prove that Cooler was refering to at any time Frieza at 100% power, not to mention did you see what using 100% power did to Frieza, its obviously not something he used much. Let alone needing to use 50% power. Thats whats cool about Cooler's transformation though, I have it at 25X Final Cooler. See with the powers like these, its more believable that Piccolo could survive Coolers attacks and yet Goku can still use nothing but powering up to blow Salza away.

quote Old Man Zangetsu

One thing Ill point out thats a flaw... You say Goku shouldnt have survived one punch from Final Cooler with the numbers people like me and P123 use, but at the same time You have instances where people do survive punches from beings many many times thier power. Kirllin, Tien and Yamcha vs Cell Jr.s

Goku vs 50% Freeza

Goku and Piccolo vs Raditz

Buutenks VS Gohan

Buuhan Vs Goku & Vegeta

Its not some out of the question idea.

And before you say, they were Toying around, whats to say Cooler wasnt? He was just letting Goku try to hit him at certian points only to troll his ass.

With out this key piece of evidence, your argument starts to fall apart.

Did I ask for your opinion? I know your opinion, get off Coolers nuts and stop riding the bandwagon. I'm talking about magnitude power differences. And if my evidence falls apart so easily its just the same for you. Now I don't care if you post in this topic but I put MY "evidence" here and I bet you didn't even read it. Your being a troll just as much as anyone you'd just as soon bitch at.

Now if you want to address why what I posted doesnt make sense to YOU because again NONE OF THIS SHIT IS FACT then go for it.

LOL, wow somebody is cranky.

ya, no shit. You could have posted this in the general thread if you don't want to debate this man..chill out.

Well, back on topic. I never put any of the movies characters as high as most people do. Cooler, brolli, boacks, jamemba, to me people in this forum overrate them, but that's just me. I do agree with what you say, and I think you won't find many people that do. Like I said, people make movie charcters stronger than they are, biggest offenders cooler and brolli.

quote Sir Infamous

As far as movie 5 is concerned Base Goku after his zenkai is implied and stated by Cooler himself to be stronger than Frieza.

Then do the rest out of that.

Cooler since he was at a disadvantage against base Goku, and also in his true form, he is probably around his brother's strength.

Thats fine and it still works if you consider that maybe Frieza only used a percentage of his power against Cooler, you know just enough to win. If Frieza at 2.5% or whatever is 4,000,000 then he would only need a few more percent to overcome 17,000,000 but nowhere near 140,000,000. Its never stated to a point of no doubt that Cooler and Freiza fought at FULL POWER. That reminds me of when everyone though Cell was near full power except SSJ2 Gohan when he powered up the 2nd time. It's a gray area and thats where the problem lies.

quote Sir Infamous

If Cooler knows he's stronger than his brother he should know his brother's maximum should he not? If not then he's just a stupid liar and storyteller.

And why on Earth would Cooler's true form only be 17 million? If Frieza's was in the 120-140 million range it makes no sense for Cooler to be 8 times weaker in the same form, which is their true form or 'birth' form.

I'm not an expert on Frieza but I recall he said he was not normal for his race. When he was young the gap between them might not have been as huge, not only that he might have not known how to control it. Remember when Gohan was 4 years old he was technically stronger than Raditz but without control nothing really happens. There is no telling how long ago Cooler and Frieza fought, it could have been hundreds of years earlier when they were like toddlers or something.

Not to mention King Cold is alive, that alone means he was at least some sort of powerful for Frieza to allow him to be called King. If Cooler is in hundred mills in final form than by default King Cold has to be terribly high as well.

90-95% Slight to Dominant Edge means, that starting at 95% there starts to be a hint of an edge, 94 a little more noticeable 93 more so and so on and so on.

I believe a 90% gap warrants a dominant edge. Which Goku suggests 88% or perhaps even higher suggests that. Also Zarbon vs Vegeta Round 1 should likely be around the 90% range if not better depending on where you have Zarbon at.

So I think a fighter who is 90% of the other, can be dominated. Even though he can put up a fight, he is for sure on the losing end.




On Piccolo vs Salza. IMO Piccolo is alot stronger than he was on Namek.


Piccolo handles the three pretty much the same as Base Goku does . Goku is said to be even stronger than Namek.


So for example I would say....


Base Goku 3,500,000
Piccolo 3,000,000


Piccolo's fight with them is nearly the same as Goku's but you can tell their is a bit of difference though. Just not all that much.