quote p123
Where is Gogeta/Mishimi when you need em? They will give you the standard answer, hopefully with some insightful details.
You guys already tried explaining it to him and you all did it perfectly...
Believe it or not, some people out there are still confused on what canon is....
Canon in the western world is much different from canon in the Eastern world I.E. manga/anime....
ULSSJ is right when he says official = canon..... In the western world that is.....
Look at Marvel and DC..... Spiderman, X-Men, Batman, Superman, etc... etc... ETC... have all had multiple authors, artists, and version creators.... While not ALL of them are considered canon, many are..... Superman has multiple origin stories in the DC universe, many of them are considered canon as they were deemed official AND canon literally by DC, and when applicable and available, by the original authors...
ULSSJ is thinking of canon in a western sense..... This is where his confusion lies....
In the Eastern part of the world, manga and anime, when it comes to canon is seen in a different light.....
Most manga/anime creators never even touch base or talk about canonical issues.... AT himself never actually stated what was canon and what was not..... The few manga/anime creators that do refer to it, always mention their original manga/anime (Whatever came first, not all animes had a manga first ya know) work as being the only official canon, unless they otherwise state something else is canon, which they rarely do....
In the eastern world, canon is kinda similar to how it is seen in the western world, sure, but is also very different and not all is created equal between east and west with this issue.... The difference lies in whether the original author(s) even touch base on canon issues, and when they do, they almost never mention anything other than their original source material as being the only true canon in the franchise...
Most manga/anime series also do not get re written and re done a shit load of times like Marvel and DC characters do, so that is also another difference....
Ok, so, what does this mean? If AT never touched base on canon issues himself, why is GT and the movies not considered canon?
Simple, we go by the default, traditional meaning of the word canon.... Which is material created solely by the original author without outside requests, influences, or projects with others ideas and such UNLESS stated otherwise by the creator....
AT never said GT and the movies were non canon IIRC, but he never said what was canon or non canon period... Thus we must go by the default definition, and not just with DB, but with ANY work of fiction out there where the creator does not specify....
In DB's case, the original manga created by AT is the only true canon as far as facts and valid truth in the story goes...
The movies and GT were created by Toei, with minor suggestions and character designs by AT, but that is all.... Toei didn't HAVE to have AT's input, nor did AT have to give his input... Toei requested AT's input and character design opinions and changes and he gave it because he is a nice guy who didn't mind fulfilling simple requests by Toei... AT approved them as being an official part of the DB franchise, but as many already said, official in this respect does not mean canon in the same sense it does in the western world with many Marvel/DC series.... In other words, GT and the movies are official to the franchise, but not to the canon of the original manga...
To elaborate on that, not even the western world considers all official products to be canon..... Spiderman video games for example are official and approved to be a part of the Spiderman FRANCHISE, but the Spidey games are hardly considered canon even though they are official.... That is the same as when people were saying the DB games are official but are not canon either earlier in this thread.... Official does not always = canon, unless they say it is canon specifically... "Official with/to the original story" =/= "official to the franchise"...
If AT came around and said one day that the movies and GT are officially CANON, then they would be, and we would have to accept that.... But just as we do with Superman and his many conflicting origin stories being canon, all that would mean is that the movies are canon entities on their own.... It still wouldn't change to much, because they are still not a part of the manga or official manga timelines.... So canon or non canon, it wouldn't change much because just like Supermans multiple origin stories and such, the DBZ movies would still exist in their own alternate timelines, canon or non canon.... GT would just be a canon continuation, but would not really effect the canon of the DB/Z canon manga, because it would simply be a continuation....
Of course, we all know AT isn't to fond of GT considering the fact he stated to not even be acknowledging it in DBO period, and he has a lot of creative control (Still non canon, because it's a game where every player could have a different outcome in the games storylines, therefore not canon like a fluid linear story is), so we all know he will never say GT is canon....
So, long story short, as everyone has been saying, the manga = canon, the anime (Filler and dub lines in dubs), movies, and GT = non canon.... AT never said GT or the movies or anime filler and whatnot are canon... And while he never specified what is and what isn't canon, the default, traditional definition tells us what is, and by default, the manga is the only true canon.... Nothing else.... If AT ever states otherwise, then fine, but if not, that's all... Obviously AT seems fine with the manga being the only canon, in all these years he has never once spoken up about the issue, which tells me he either doesn't care about canon issues, or he doesn't need to say anything because we have it right and he knows it...
90% of the fandom in general knows this, accepts this, and goes by this rule, including Japanese fans in Japan.... If Japanese fans in Japan going by this same rule doesn't send out a bright white flag of truth, I don't know what else would....
Some people however, do get confused by it... ULSSJ would not be the first.... People like that are rare, but they do exist....
Edit: Nov 03, 10
