Series Rankings - Page 2

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Wow good point Cooler. I did not even think of this. This may be the argument that may convince Gogeta that Cell Jr= Cell Suppressed ( vs USSJ Vegeta , Trunks )

Also you have to consider that Vegeta can effect SPC with a ki blast. Amplified or not that is alot of ground to make up. I don't know Cooler. SPC should be able to do the same to Vegeta shiet even PC may be able to do the same to Vegeta. That hurts my brain.

I don't think Cell Jr = Supressed Cell, if anything it makes me think SSJ Vegeta was a good bit stronger than 50% of Goku's MSSJ power.

I believe I first brought up the point that SPC had to brace himself against an angry Vegeta's attack .

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Not a bad point at all. The main reasons why I think Cell and Gohan were in the same vicinity of strength was the obvious fear the Z-Senshi displayed when Cell returned, which would not be necessary if Gohan was still much stronger. And also Cell's comment about having powered up like Gohan did. Also, I don't have Vegeta equal to the Cell Jr's, not if the latter went all out that is...

If the Cell Jr's were significantly stronger than Vegeta it just makes SPC weaker in comparison to Gohan. The Z-Senshi could have been scared because Cell had the capablity to blow up the planet and had such potent regeneration. I feel he was quite close to Gohan but I think in a hand to hand fight Gohan would definately take him.

quote Cooler

I don't think Cell Jr = Supressed Cell, if anything it makes me think SSJ Vegeta was a good bit stronger than 50% of Goku's MSSJ power.

Damn another one. So where do you put Cell Jr in comparison to 50% goku and SSJ Vegeta?

quote Cooler

I believe I first brought up the point that SPC had to brace himself against an angry Vegeta's attack

This and the fact that SPC didn't blow his head up imply Vegeta was alot stronger than I have him. Hmmmm.

quote Cooler

If the Cell Jr's were significantly stronger than Vegeta it just makes SPC weaker in comparison to Gohan. The Z-Senshi could have been scared because Cell had the capablity to blow up the planet and had such potent regeneration. I feel he was quite close to Gohan but I think in a hand to hand fight Gohan would definately take him.

Yea if Cell Jr >> Vegeta that makes Gohan >> SPC. Cell is clearly shown to be murderous. He kills Trunks. Vegeta has the audacity to come at him hard and no doubt when Cell throws that blast its intended to kill him. If Cell was strong enough he would have punched a hole thru his stomach like Gohan did to Cell JRs.

If cell jrs where so much stronger than Vegeta and Trunks why would Vegeta and Trunks clearly be doing much better than the other fighters? This to me implies that the juniors were fighting at their max.

Ok but that kinda throws my Piccolo >= USSJ Vegeta for a loop. I don't think I can make it fit with those kind of numbers. I don't see Piccolo being anywhere near Cell jrs at all. Hmmmm....

quote Cooler

Yes which is why I think SSJ2 Gohan > SPC

Hmm currently I have
Percent Of PC

SSJ Gohan 80%
SS2 Gohan 160%
SPC 145%

That put Spc at 90% of Gohan. Enough to compete with him fairly evenly for a while but eventually he would succumb to Gohan's power. I think it's plausible to put him 84-87 % of Gohan. I always felt that Gohan would still basically smash SPC with some resistance but not much.

SPC 135-140% would indicate what you are talking about Cooler while still keeping him within range to make it somewhat of a battle.

Also if I have Vegeta equal to 55% of Goku my numbers still work. And that way Cell Jr can still be Cell Suppressed. So factoring in you estimated 60-70% I don't think 55% is that big of a stretch and can still work somewhat with your theories.

Either way you can do some adjusting and make Cell Jr a little stronger than Cell Suppressed but it doesn't have to be a huge margin to still reach your goals. To me it just fits too perfectly that Cell Jr = Cell suppressed but maybe that's just me.

Where do you have USSJ2 Trunks compared to Cell Jr? Equals also?

quote Cooler

This and the fact that SPC didn't blow his head up imply Vegeta was alot stronger than I have him. Hmmmm.
Indeed.

The only problem I have is that if you have Vegeta at 60-70% of Goku I have Goku 70% of Pc Others have Goku as low at 50-60%.

Based on your assessment of Vegeta and mine of Goku Vegeta could range from 42 to 49% of Perfect Cell. That is also on the high end of estimates.

It's quite possible that PC could one shot Vegeta let alone SPC. SPC indeed should be able to do what Gohan did to Cell Jrs and more that he chose not to.

I mean an absolute max Vegeta could be half of PC. SPC is a significant upgrade to PC. SS2 Gohan also hit PC way harder than SPC hit Vegeta.

You could argue the difference between SS2 Gohan and PC is similar to Vegeta and PC. PC should be able to dominate Vegeta the same way at his PC stage, let alone SPC stage.

It's more likely he was not using his full capabilities on him to explain that better.

SO USSJ2 Trunks is only 40% of his Cell games form? Damn

You can say they were holding back sure. But why hold back against Piccolo, and not Vegeta, Trunks, Goku, Krillen, and Yamcha? That seems unlikely.

It's more likely Piccolo was strong enough to not be beaten into a pulp against Cell Jr. Their goal was to beat you like Krillen Yamcha and Goku. If you weren't beaten that way it's clear to me it's because you are strong enough to compete.

I hear what your saying about Vegeta making SPC brace and that his attack actually effecting SPC even if ever so slightly. I would think that SPC was mildly effected by Vegeta's blast just enough to distract him for a second.

I don't think the kamehame battle would go any different if Vegeta didn't hit him with the blast. If Gohan used that same surge I think it would be the same result. And it appears based on ur assumptions of SPC comparatively to SS2 Gohan you feel the same.

quote Cooler

Sorry I meant USSJ2 Trunks is 40% of PC...

I don't see anything wrong with that.

quote Cooler

Well the Cell Jr's were even with Vegeta and Trunks, they were superior to Piccolo.

Surely. I don't have much to cross reference with your logic because I have no way to compare Cell Jr to anything else in your theory.

At the max Vegeta can be 50% PC. I would think Piccolo could be 80% of SSJ Vegeta which would put him in range to get beat up bad but not bad enough to be in one shot territory.

That would place Piccolo at 40% equal to ur USSJ2 Trunks.

This would also make Cell Jr = 50% Cell

i don't have many major problems with this theory how do u feel about trunks and piccolo?

Either way you cut it SPC should be able to one shot Vegeta easily. I can see how a ki amplified attack that used all his ki x2 power level could effect SPC in the way it did. Say an attack equal to PC was able to effect SPC that way. Sounds reasonable to me.

yea thats where I have him at too Gogeta. I think Gohan was stronger but SPC could give a good fight and be competitive. Add in the regeneration and other factors and you have a very good fight.

As you see I have Gohan 160% and SPC at 145%. I think this is very fair and accurate. Also I think both would have a significant advantage over SSJ2 Vegeta.

So when making power levels you must make things first make sense for the saga you are working on and also you can't forget about fighters in future sagas. That is why I have come up with the theory that MSSJ has a limit , a limit that is not based on Base either.

Vegeta's base is clearly alot stronger than Gohan's during the Cell Games. But it is known that Vegeta can't touch SSJ2 Kid Gohan.

I factor this is having Vegeta base significantly stronger yet his max MSSJ is weaker than Gohan's. MSSJ is determined more off of potential and you can't superceed your SSJ potential.

This way I can have Vegeta's base where it should be, Kid > Vegeta and SPC > Vegeta .

I also think SSJ2 works out best as a double multiplier off of MSSJ. This seems clear for the SSJ2 Gohan > Perfect Cell to occur. Gohan would have to be at least that strong at minimum to beat Cell the way he did.

Also your theories must tie in together and still fit. Like I said there is a MSSJ limit right? But, how is SSJ2 Goku > SSJ2 Kid Gohan. Well for that the rules that apply to SSJ also apply to MSSJ. Every1 has a different potential for their SSJ2 limit. Based off Goku being SSJ3 he has mastered SSJ2.

Vegeta implied more than once that because Gohan got weaker over the 7 years, he had become comparable to him. Meaning SSj 2 kid Gohan > SSj 2 Vegeta.

It makes the most sense to assume that SPC and Gohan were around one another's level of power.

Cell broke Gohan's arm with a 'generic' ki blast, he was visibly toying with him throughout the struggle, he wasn't overly cocky like before and only said that he'd 'powered up, as well', Gohan had to take advantage of an opening to finish him, Gohan fully erased Cell(regeneration be damned) etc.