East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo - Page 23

I'll say what I said before somewhere else, I can understand why some people might choose Shin, but let's further examine this. Let's go back to the Cell saga, after Piccolo merged with Kami, we clearly see Piccolo is evenly matched with Android 17. But when 17 punches him, Piccolo clearly states 17 was fast, but his punches weren't much, so in a way Piccolo could have been a bit more powerful. Note that 17 had an infinite energy engine, meaning he couldn't get tired, so if Piccolo's attacks weren't working, well cyborgs can't really feel pain do they? Now let's fast-forward all the way to Piccolo after training in the ROSAT, Goku clearly states Piccolo grew much stronger, but obviously not enough to challenge Perfect Cell. How strong was Piccolo then? We don't know, but let's just stick with evenly with 17 at the moment, even if he was stronger at after ROSAT.

Now let's examine Shin, how strong is Shin? Piccolo stated Shin was "in a different dimension", in Herms' opinion, this meant "stronger". His evidence? Well Tien, Krillin, and even Buu had said something like this. Krillin said Frieza was in another dimension when Piccolo appeared, Tien when he first saw Goku as SSJ also said it was as if Goku was in another dimension, and Buu called Goku a fool and said he was fundamentally in a different dimension compared to the old Buu. This all meant they were stronger, but did Piccolo really meant power?

I certainly cannot do what Herms does, but to me things just don't add up with Piccolo stating Shin was "more powerful". When Gohan pulled out the Z Sword, Shin stated no one was able to pull it out, not him, not the past Kaio-shins, no one. When Gohan pulled it out at just SSJ, this proved Shin was weaker than SSJ Gohan, and Gohan was weaker this time. So a weaker Gohan was more powerful than Shin, and more powerful than South Kaio-shin. The manga does not say whether or not South Kaio-shin tried pulling the sword, but it was stated that South Kaio-shin was the strongest Kaio-shin, and to say he didn't try pulling it is absurd.

The Z Sword symbolized power to Shin, he thought it would give the one who held it great power, so I find it interesting that countless Kaio-shins tried pulling the sword out, but for some reason South Kaio-shin didn't try pulling it out? Makes no sense. So if you believe South Kaio-shin tried out the sword, then weak SSJ Gohan is stronger than South Kaio-shin, who is stronger than Shin. This makes Shin look kind of weak don't you think? This is the guy that Piccolo stated was in another dimension, and when ever this was stated, "another dimension" meant a huge power gap, not a small one. The only way that can work, it's if Piccolo stopped training during the 7 years, thus getting weaker and Shin ultimately surpassing him.

But where is the evidence that Piccolo stopped training? Where is this stated? Some say Piccolo was not stated to continue to train, but since when does this have to be stated when we know Piccolo is a warrior class Namekien? Why would he stop training? Only Gohan was stated to stop his training during those 7 years, and it was hinted out that Yamcha also stopped, but the manga never states Piccolo or even Krillin stopped training.

Herms translated the manga word for word, but sometimes people have to know the difference when something is being metaphoric, and when something is actually that. Yes, I'm talking about the whole "another dimension" means "stronger". It's not all the time that phrase means stronger, and the only way to find out is looking at the evidence given to us before and after Piccolo said that.

I think there is a case for Piccolo>Base Saiyans>Kaioshin depending on how you feel about the argument that Piccolo knew who Kaioshin was, so he stepped down out of respect. But with the mess of the buu saga, i think it makes a tad more sense that Base Saiyans>Kaioshin>Piccolo.

Interesting thing though, Piccolo only steps down after Shin read his mind. And as soon as he quit, Shin says, "he was the god of this world, he must have sensed who I am." Piccolo showed no fear in fighting, he just couldn't attack him for some reason, and even then he did not mention any power, he would have at least said, this guy is strong...who is he? Then Shin would have read his mind, etc. None of this happens, and as I said the only way this would make sense it's if Piccolo stopped training and got weaker, if he continued to train, makes no sense to have Shin leagues away.

quote Vegeta is a dog

Piccolo says that Kaioshin was in a whole nother dimension from him. Tenshinhan says that about SSJ Goku also. It's a power statement IMO. Base Saiyans>>>Kaioshin>>>Piccolo IMO.

Piccolo only said that as an excuse to not fight kaioshin and keep kaioshin identity a secret that he is a kaioshin.

quote Vegeta is a dog

Piccolo says that Kaioshin was in a whole nother dimension from him. Tenshinhan says that about SSJ Goku also. It's a power statement IMO. Base Saiyans>>>Kaioshin>>>Piccolo IMO.

Did you read my explanation? The only way that Shin was stronger than Piccolo it's if Piccolo stopped training and got weaker. When you look at the evidence, for Piccolo to say that Shin was in another dimension, which that's a metaphor for, this guy is light years away from me, well it wouldn't make much sense. Piccolo in the Cell saga was above 17, add in the training of the ROSAT, and this guy is pretty strong. Shin who is apparently much weaker than weaker SSJ Gohan, how can he possibly be dimensions away from Piccolo? And look at the small things, no one felt Shin's powers, Piccolo only quit after Shin read his mind...I mean these are clear evidence that when Piccolo said another dimension, he literally meant another dimension.

quote Vegeta is a dog

Tenshinhan stated that Goku was in a whole nother dimension from him in power, when Goku turned SSJ. I doubt AT would change the meaning of that.

Here the thing what could piccolo have said to quit without looking suspecious? I mean let say piccolo just quit because he felt like it, the z fighter would suspect something. But piccolo using kaioshin is another dimension the z fighter won't suspect he is a kaio or kaioshin.

Piccolo main thing was to keep his identity a secret until the right time.

Anyway it is fact that piccolo wanted to confirm who kaioshin was before telling anyone at the right time.

When a kaio or kaioshin goes to earth then I am it must be for something important, I am sure that piccolo felt that, I mean kaioshin also said that piccolo knew who he was because he was once a kami of earth.

Piccolo is fused with kami so he should have knowledge like a kaio and kaioshin.