East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo - Page 21

I mean at least some of the Cell Jrs were holding back. They didn't one shot Kuririn or Yamcha, which I'd bet that the likes of 19 and 20 could do considering Yamcha's quote about being helpless against them.

It is a good point though that why wouldn't Piccolo be getting as beat up as them? Maybe Piccolo was strong enough to get the Cell Jr's respect. We saw that PC toyed with Vegeta when PC was much stronger, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Cell Jr toyed with Piccolo in a similar fashion.

Like GOGETA said, the Cell Jr came back pretty fast when Vegeta slugged him as if he had power in reserve.

Stuff like this is what makes me think its hard to use the Cell Jrs as a measuring stick of Piccolo's power.

How about this logic: Piccolo felt 50% Goku's power and knows that Goku doesn't think he can beat PC. Piccolo says that he can't do much against PC. What might he basing PC's PL on? The fact that 50% Goku can't beat him? What he saw from the lookout? Goku didn't know how strong PC potentially was until he ITed to him.

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I think he knows that Goku has a lot left in the reserves if not right away eventually.

I overlooked that. Perhaps Piccolo can sense as well as Kuririn and tell how much power Goku would have had stored away.

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Cell Jrs toying around is only that they don't kill you. They would be the snot out of anyone they could. They would beat you into the ground if they could . ( weakened MSSJ Goku anyone? ) This subject really is not debatable.

Either way there is no other logical reasoning that you could use to say Cell Jr likes Piccolo yet not Goku.

Thanks for rewording that. I agree with your assessment that the Cell Jrs. only toy around by not killing you.

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Stuff like this is what makes me think its hard to use the Cell Jrs as a measuring stick of Piccolo's power.

You can't really, as the Cell Jrs in my opinion were most likely holding back/having power in reserve. One more than the other presumably depending on who they fought, but I think none was fighting at full power before Cell gave the order to start killing the Z-Senshi at will. All we know is that he is stronger than the humans (simple logic), and weaker than Vegeta and Trunks (as Cell implied). How he compares to Goku is anyone's guess, Goku may have started out stronger, but he was already greatly weakened from his fight with Cell and certainly getting stomped on by a Cell Jr that's as good as the equivalent of Cell's power, would IMO result in Goku's power decreasing quickly. So I wouldn't be surprised at all if Piccolo was stronger than Goku at that point...

Compared to Cell himself, I think he compares to Semi-Perfect Cell roughly, that should be an acceptable increase from his power pre-ROSAT.

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Vegeta, Trunks >= Cell jR

I'm not going to argue about how Vegeta and Trunks are supposedly equal to the Cell Jr's, as you well know by now I disagree with that. But honestly, were they ever suggested to be stronger than the Cell Jr's? That was never suggested in any way IIRC; at best Cell's statement about them being the only ones able to hold their own implies that they weren't dramatically weaker, but certainly not that they were stronger...

You may be right. Piccolo may only be 1 point higher than Goku. He could have been face down the entire time.

Regardless he is strong enough to be standing up right after. This doesn't have to make him anywhere near Vegeta and Trunks.


I have healthy spacing between Piccolo and Vegeta.

If Piccolo kept training he should have been a beast in the Buu saga. Piccolo has always showed to be able to keep up. But, even with a ROSAT and Kamiccolo he is still vastly inferior to the weaker SSJ's ( vegeta and Trunks)

Yes, I think it is highly likely Piccolo has this problem too. Could explain for his huge gains each time he fuses also. Let's say Nail+ King Kai training increases his potential 100 fold and Kami increases it by 3 or 4 fold.

If Piccolo could have gotten much much stronger he would have? Right that's pretty much what we assume. Kami may have played a part in this also as Piccolo def didn't train as much as he normally would have. Also the huge distance in their power levels may have made him notice he was wasting his time.

Perhaps Piccolo has limits too its just his fusions or other world training that he increases his limits.

Well, we have to realize that merging with Nail (and Kami later on) more than likely did wonders for Piccolo's potential as he basically become a whole new being two times over. I personally feel that Piccolo at the Cell Games is comparable to Semi-Perfect Cell and in the Buu arc, even though there is no evidence to support him having continued to train after Cell's defeat, I do feel strongly that he did and I agree that he would be around the "ultra-suppressed" Perfect Cell that Trunks and Vegeta fought against. And tbh, I think I'm being quite lenient on Piccolo here on both instances...

In any case, we know for a fact that Piccolo cannot be anywhere near the "semi-suppressed" Perfect Cell that fought Goku and Gohan at the Cell Games. Here's why;

*At the Tenkaichi Budokai, Piccolo flatout states (in the original dialogue) that he is no match for East Kaoishin. And it should be noted here that East Kaioshin was stated to be weakest of his generation
*Super Saiyan Teen Gohan can pull out the Z-sword, whilst nobody in recorded knowledge has ever been able to, and I see no reason why the Kaioshin themselves (and certainly the strongest, South Kaioshin would not try their hand at it), given the legend describes that it could give them the power to defeat Majin Buu. Seems a valid reason to try to pull out the sword.
*At the Cell Games, Gohan was more powerful than he was in the Buu arc, yet he was no match for suppressed Perfect Cell, he was at best equal

So I would arrive at this conclusion;

"Semi-suppressed" Perfect Cell >/= SSJ Kid Gohan > SSJ Teen Gohan > East Kaioshin > Piccolo (Buu arc)