East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo - Page 17

quote Infamous

I'm not following you here. Could you please elaborate?

You're saying that he just KNEW who Kaioshin was and that's why he forfeited his match, yet you still entertain the possibility that he he may not have known that the Saiyans planned on strictly using base.

quote

Piccolo was a lot different back then compared to him in the Boo saga imo.

He acted the complete opposite between the two situations. His personality itself wasn't completely opposite, so that couldn't have had much(if anything) to do with it.

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Why does Piccolo possibly doing better than Kaioshin, who didn't do much of anything, cause problems?

Were we reading the same manga?

SSj 2 Gohan = immobilized, Buu, Buu's ki blast = deflected, Buu's angry explosion = survived, etc.

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I'm not sure how to explain Kaioshin's power to render SSJ2 Gohan immobile. Right now I'd think he had some sort of special power to do that. I'm open to hearing reasonings behind that technique.

It obviously had to do with his own strength, because he wouldn't have been exerting effort or worrying about it possibly overpowering him.

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I don't care much about the Daizenshuu. To be honest, I think my opinion > Daizenshuu at times.

In this case, when 0 indicates anything about Piccolo being stronger than Kaioshin, and there's more than enough evidence for Kaioshin being stronger than Piccolo, the story and the Daiz is correct.

quote p123

Gohan has to use SSJ to fight Kibito.

...What?

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ANd like I said I am not sure how base saiyans compare against Kai. All likelihood points that they are stronger.

All likelihood points to the opposite direction, bro. Your argument seems to be heavily based on conjectures(the crap in Babidi's ship, Pui-Pui, and whatever).

my whole point is that Piccolo shouldn't be that much weaker than SSJ Gohan. Maybe half his power. If Kai is stronger he likely isn't by much. Definitley not by margins that Piccolo tells Goku about.

Gohan's dialogue with Kibito. Tells him to go SSJ. Doesn't he remark that he might have to or something?

How do you feel about Piccolo vs SSJ Gohan from what I said above?

Compare SSJ Teen Gohan vs SSJ Vegeta ( Cell Games )

Would Gohan easily dispose of Cell Jr's?

Vegeta states that Gohan is nowhere close to his power at Cell games

So is Gohan stronger than Cell Games Vegeta?

Vegeta says this when Gohan turns SSJ2. He's not even close to his power as a Kid. That warrants a drastic reduction in power to me 50-75%.

Which you could arguable place SSJ Vegeta ( Cell Games )

Also I dont have Piccolo as that much weaker than SSJ Vegeta at least not by two fold or anything

Do you not see what I'm suggesting?

If Kai is stronger than Piccolo it can't be by any huge margin.

quote DaSavage

He only said that he was 'better when he beat Cell' or something like that.

Damn I need the Viz for everything. I hate debating with weak information. I am clearly wasting my time without it. I will get all Viz today I swear!

quote DaSavage

Gohan was much stronger than Vegeta at the Cell Games. Gohan got weaker, and I assume Vegeta got stronger, but still. I'll put the odds on Gohan.

Yes I agree. I have SSJ Vegeta (cell) at 700 million while I have Teen gohan at 800 million. Not much of a difference but enough to notice it..

What are your thoughts on Vegeta and Trunks being FPSSJ at the Cell games. Perhaps their power was just inferior?

quote DaSavage

Stronger is stronger, so whatever.

Doesn't matter to me either way. Figured I'd get some opinions on placement. It seems its the only way to have him stronger which I don't mind and weaker than SSJ Gohan.

Piccolo 520
Kai 600
Gohan 800

I think Kai is more weaker than Gohan than stronger than Piccolo.. If that makes sense Lol

quote DaSavage

Well, it's not like being permanent is the only FPSSj attribute, since Buu saga Goku still has all the power from 7 years before, without being permanently SSj.

Maybe Vegeta and Trunks reached their power limit as well, but were just naturally inferior.

Yes it took me some time to think of this theory but it seems possible.. We see that everyone has different limits of FPSSJ. Gohan is clearly superior to Goku. This could be possible.. Vegeta and Trunks no what to do training wise and they do have a full year.

quote DaSavage

This sounds good.

Why thank you. I know if I can get you to agree with me it must be pretty damn good.

Do you mind if I sneak a couple more in there for reference?

USSJ Vegeta 450
Piccolo ( buu = cell) 520
Kai 600
Cell Jr 650
Vegeta (cell) 700
Teen Gohan 800
Dabura 850
Vegeta (buu) 1000
Goku(cell) 1150
Gohan(cell) 1300
Goku ( buu) 1400

Lol man maybe I overdid it. My main problem is where the hell is SSJ Vegeta Buu arc. Is he stronger than Goku (cell) ?

Yes I thought of that too.. But perhaps because Vegeta's base was stronger than Goku is why he was stronger.. FPSSJ is more about potential than base training IMO...

It looks like a fanslation but during Great Saiyaman doesn't Vegeta start commenting about how the gap has closed and then Trunks says something like Goku probably isnt even a SSJ2? It looks like it is a fanslation but just wondering

That comment also makes me think that Vegeta is weaker than Goku at Cell Games. Goku is at least comparable to Gohan.. If Vegeta has to even question if he's stronger than a guy who hasn't trained for 7 yrs I dont think hes anywhere near that guy when he was strong u no?