re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo - Page 16 - Dragonball

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jackjack ultra seeker total posts: 1450 since: Oct 2009	Feb 20, 10 at 12:39am ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	Log in to remove this sponsored message quote Infamous_666 ^He pulled it out with one hand the second time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0XCxr3Wgok @2 min because gohan still needed to overcome the sword's own weight. say if the sword is way heavier than the boy, it would be physically impossible for him to lift it up, even though he's the chosen one.
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G_O_G_E_T_A Vocare Ad Regnum (moderator) Dragonball total posts: 16060 since: May 2006	Feb 20, 10 at 9:44am ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	quote How do you think Supreme Kai does with the sword? Handles it like Goku ? Gohan (pre) obviously not SSJ Gohan. More like Kibito? Better than Kibito obviously, because he's much stronger. Better than any base Saiyan too as I have him stronger than them... quote Alright I guess I cave. I was so intent on seeing the whole Disney Bidibi, Bobidi, Buu + obvious king arthur reference I may have gone a little over board. Now I still think my theory still is logical but if the general consensus is the opposite I rather just join and move on now thinking about the Z-swords actual weight. There's nothing wrong with having your own opinion, and I admit, there is a good chance you're right as you do have a point with AT's liking of Disney and the Bibidi Babidi Buu issue. It's just that not everybody on here feels the same way you do. People have opinions of their own, which you'll have to respect if you can't convince them otherwise, as everybody is entitled to their own opinion. And for that reason, I find it unnecessary to verbally attack people in disagreement with you, and call them names. And that doesn't just apply to you p123, don't get me wrong on that, it applies to everybody.
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p123 Permanently Plugged In total posts: 14134 since: Dec 2009	Feb 20, 10 at 11:52pm ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	Your right I have been moody. I just quit smoking I am ready to destoy my computer anytime someone is slightly dooshy. I'll try to keep that in check better.
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Infamous_666 Still Seekin' total posts: 3924 since: May 2007	Feb 21, 10 at 3:51am ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	quote Daizenshuu キビト Kibito Kibito Kaioushin's attendant. [Fir.] Chapter 437 [Par.] A man who serves as Kaioushin's attendant. At his core, he is a good person, but he was initially a bit disdainful toward Gohan and the other lower world humanoids, and he did not believe in the power of Super Saiyan. His Battle Power is considerably high, such that he would give Gohan a tough fight when he was not a Super Saiyan. (Daizenshuu 4, Page 55) [Tech.] He has the ability to teleport to any world with the magical phrase "Kaikai," and to make clothes in a flash. He also has the ability to heal wounds. [Ten.] Appeared in the actual event at the 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai. Abandoned his match mid-way. [A.] For fused characters, both seiyuu speaking simultaneously is the standard. But after Kibito and Shin fused, Shin's seiyuu deepened his voice to play the part. The Daiz has Kibit around base Gohan's level but I personally think that Base Gohan >> Kibit considering Gohan was able to wield the Z-Sword far better in his base form than Kibito's lack-there-of. It is possible, though, that some time may have passed between Gohan pulling out the Z-Sword in SSJ and swinging it around in his base form (I'm suggesting that its possible that he got stronger before he was able to wield it that well in his base form). Anyway, I just thought this was a good example of the Daiz pretty much just taking a frame from the manga and saying something that may not be true. Its one of the reasons why I don't really like to use the Daiz very much in proving things. So the Daiz saying East Kaioshin is stronger than Piccolo isn't much evidence to me. Its probably just interpreting Piccolo's quote literally from the manga. -------------------
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jackjack ultra seeker total posts: 1450 since: Oct 2009	Feb 21, 10 at 6:56am ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	what's wrong with piccolo's quote from the manga? what's better than someone flat out stating who's stronger when it comes to strength.
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G_O_G_E_T_A Vocare Ad Regnum (moderator) Dragonball total posts: 16060 since: May 2006	Feb 21, 10 at 11:38am ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	quote Anyway, I just thought this was a good example of the Daiz pretty much just taking a frame from the manga and saying something that may not be true. Its one of the reasons why I don't really like to use the Daiz very much in proving things. So the Daiz saying East Kaioshin is stronger than Piccolo isn't much evidence to me. Its probably just interpreting Piccolo's quote literally from the manga. There's nothing wrong with using Daizenshuu information that goes un-contradicted. Which is the case with East Kaioshin > Piccolo, as the manga in no way hints at the opposite. One example of why it's best not to use the Dai's is with SSJ2 Gohan, because in one volume it says Gohan only goes SSJ2 at the Tenkaichi Budokai (which is correct factually), but in another volume they make a 360 turn around and quickly say he used SSJ2 against Dabura too, which is plain false... You're right though that base Gohan is >> to Kibito if you base it on the Z-sword issue.
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p123 Permanently Plugged In total posts: 14134 since: Dec 2009	Feb 21, 10 at 11:39am ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	Piccolo states it to keep the others unaware of who Kai is. This statement could be true but it's not the reason he makes it. Kai is shown to be embarrasingly weak.
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G_O_G_E_T_A Vocare Ad Regnum (moderator) Dragonball total posts: 16060 since: May 2006	Feb 21, 10 at 11:46am ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	Kaioshin is weak (compared to the Saiyans anyway), but the same can be said for Piccolo. And as a matter of fact, I have been told by people knowledgeable with Japanese that the quote Piccolo used in the original manga to describe Kaioshin (about him being a different order of being), is similar to Tien stating that Super Saiyan Goku is on a different plane of power, which he said when Goku fought with #19... So yeah, eventhough Kaioshin himself is pretty weak, most evidence and hints available to us point to Piccolo being even weaker. The Daizenshuu appears to be correct in this case.
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Infamous_666 Still Seekin' total posts: 3924 since: May 2007	Feb 21, 10 at 4:44pm ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	quote jackjack what's wrong with piccolo's quote from the manga? what's better than someone flat out stating who's stronger when it comes to strength. I'm not a literalist like you so I am open to taking a look at different possiblities. How is it possible that Piccolo somehow knows Kaioshin's true strength when Goku standing right there doesn't know and he could sense Bulma's ki from the Lookout? IMO, Piccolo thought Kaioshin was Dai Kaio so he declined to fight him and just said to Goku, "He's on a different level." I think another good point is why would Piccolo decline a fight in a tournament setting? He was willing to fight others who were stronger than him, yet not Kaioshin? IMO, he refused to lay a finger on him out of respect. -------------------
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DaSavage Guns don't kill people. I kill people. true seeker total posts: 1224 since: Dec 2009	Feb 21, 10 at 10:24pm ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	quote Infamous How is it possible that Piccolo somehow knows Kaioshin's true strength when Goku standing right there doesn't know and he could sense Bulma's ki from the Lookout? Because Piccolo was standing square in front of him when he was preparing to fight. quote IMO, Piccolo thought Kaioshin was Dai Kaio so he declined to fight him and just said to Goku, "He's on a different level." Look at Piccolo's attitude towards the(then) highest deity in the universe - Kaio, and his attitude toward Kaioshin. Ranking had nothing to do with it. There's nothing to back up Piccolo being stronger than Kaioshin. quote I think another good point is why would Piccolo decline a fight in a tournament setting? He was willing to fight others who were stronger than him, yet not Kaioshin? IMO, he refused to lay a finger on him out of respect. Maybe he knew that the Saiyans agreed not to use SSj...? Because if they had stayed in base, Piccolo would've been the winner. But Kaioshin appeared, who was stronger than Piccolo, who's >> base Saiyans. quote GOGETA I have been told by people knowledgeable with Japanese that the quote Piccolo used in the original manga to describe Kaioshin (about him being a different order of being), is similar to Tien stating that Super Saiyan Goku is on a different plane of power, which he said when Goku fought with #19... Yeah, it's what Tien said about SSj Goku. quote Original Dialogue He says "Chigai-sugiru…jigen ga…"/"Our dimensions...are too different". It's the same thing Tenshinhan says when he sees Super Saiyan Goku.
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jackjack ultra seeker total posts: 1450 since: Oct 2009	Feb 21, 10 at 10:49pm ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	quote Infamous_666 quote jackjack what's wrong with piccolo's quote from the manga? what's better than someone flat out stating who's stronger when it comes to strength. I'm not a literalist like you so I am open to taking a look at different possiblities. How is it possible that Piccolo somehow knows Kaioshin's true strength when Goku standing right there doesn't know and he could sense Bulma's ki from the Lookout? IMO, Piccolo thought Kaioshin was Dai Kaio so he declined to fight him and just said to Goku, "He's on a different level." I think another good point is why would Piccolo decline a fight in a tournament setting? He was willing to fight others who were stronger than him, yet not Kaioshin? IMO, he refused to lay a finger on him out of respect. kaioshin was hiding his identify, so he could be somewhat hiding his power as well. goku did say that the tournament wouldn't be easy with those two strange guys, and remember gohan needed to ask piccolo about what was going on late in the kid boo fight. that might be the reason piccolo declined to fight, but still doesn't disprove his quote, since goku was questioning him regarding kaioshin's strength. why would he lie?
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Infamous_666 Still Seekin' total posts: 3924 since: May 2007	Feb 21, 10 at 11:24pm ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	^My point really is that Piccolo was like, why do I feel like I don't want to fight him. Then he quits. Goku says, "is he really that strong?" which indicates to me that Kaioshin didn't like show Piccolo his true ki or anything. How do you think Kaioshin indicated to Piccolo that he was on another level of strength when an unsuppression of ki is highly unlikely (impossible imo)? He may have said that Kaioshin was on a different level because he thought he was Dai Kaioshin. Piccolo probably expected Dai Kaioshin to be tremendously powerful as well as someone he didn't want to fight. quote DaSavage Because Piccolo was standing square in front of him when he was preparing to fight. What do you mean by this? How does standing in front of someone tell someone that you are stronger than them? EDIT: Now that I think about it, you may have a point here. Goku needed to IT to PC in order to get a better idea of who was stronger. Perhaps Piccolo was able to discern that Kaioshin was stronger than him much like Goku was able to discern that PC > him by standing in front of him. quote DaSavage Look at Piccolo's attitude towards the(then) highest deity in the universe - Kaio, and his attitude toward Kaioshin. Ranking had nothing to do with it. There's nothing to back up Piccolo being stronger than Kaioshin. Piccolo was more evil back then and didn't have Kami merged with him. quote DaSavage Maybe he knew that the Saiyans agreed not to use SSj...? Because if they had stayed in base, Piccolo would've been the winner. But Kaioshin appeared, who was stronger than Piccolo, who's >> base Saiyans. Perhaps, perhaps not. This message was merged with other messages by G_O_G_E_T_A (moderator) -------------------
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DaSavage Guns don't kill people. I kill people. true seeker total posts: 1224 since: Dec 2009	Feb 22, 10 at 12:08am ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	quote Infamous Perhaps, perhaps not. If Kami's side is as influential on Piccolo as you're claiming, he'd definitely know that the Saiyans weren't going beyond base. quote Piccolo was more evil back then and didn't have Kami merged with him. He still knew that Kaio was the highest being in the universe and acted completely opposite to his behavior against Kaioshin. Piccolo was still a good guy when he was there. But Kaioshin being < Piccolo raises a number of problems with the story, because it'd mean you think Piccolo would do better against Buu than Kaioshin, or that he's powerful enough to render SSj 2 Gohan completely immobile. And there's still that thing about fan's opinions(that have no real basis) > the Daizenshuu's.
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Infamous_666 Still Seekin' total posts: 3924 since: May 2007	Feb 22, 10 at 12:20am ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	quote DaSavage quote Infamous Perhaps, perhaps not. If Kami's side is as influential on Piccolo as you're claiming, he'd definitely know that the Saiyans weren't going beyond base. I'm not following you here. Could you please elaborate? quote DaSavage quote Piccolo was more evil back then and didn't have Kami merged with him. Piccolo was still a good guy when he was there. Piccolo was a lot different back then compared to him in the Boo saga imo. quote DaSavage But Kaioshin being < Piccolo raises a number of problems with the story, because it'd mean you think Piccolo would do better against Buu than Kaioshin, or that he's powerful enough to render SSj 2 Gohan completely immobile. And there's still that thing about fan's opinions(that have no real basis) > the Daizenshuu's. Why does Piccolo possibly doing better than Kaioshin, who didn't do much of anything, cause problems? I'm not sure how to explain Kaioshin's power to render SSJ2 Gohan immobile. Right now I'd think he had some sort of special power to do that. I'm open to hearing reasonings behind that technique. I don't care much about the Daizenshuu. To be honest, I think my opinion > Daizenshuu at times. My opinion does have basis. Please show a little respect Savage. -------------------
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p123 Permanently Plugged In total posts: 14134 since: Dec 2009	Feb 22, 10 at 1:56am ^ re: East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo
	yea guys this whole daiz over all is not good. If a group of logical people have an idea that's better than the daiz so be it. Guys let's look it at it this way. Piccolo is supposed to be Cell Games Piccolo correct? That Piccolo is somewhere between USSJ Vegeta and SSJ Vegeta. I have him closer to USSJ Vegeta. I have USSJ Vegeta 450 mil Piccolo 500 mil SSJ Vegeta 700 mil ok also I have Teen Gohan SSJ 800 mil If Piccolo remained the same then it's a little easier to tell. Supreme Kai is surprised and amazed by base saiyans. He's in awe of SSJ's. For Kai > Piccolo then Kai has to be sumwhere close to SSJ Gohan. I think this is never implied. Also you have Kibito >> Base Gohan... Teen Base Gohan is much weaker than he was at cell games. Much weaker than Goku or Vegeta's base also. Gohan has to use SSJ to fight Kibito. I have Gohan's base at 80 million Vegeta and Goku's in the 300-400 range. I'm really doubting if Kai was stronger than Vegeta's base. Even if he was it wasn't likely by much. The layout I have presented would have Kai probably in the 400-500 range. Similar to Piccolo. ANd like I said I am not sure how base saiyans compare against Kai. All likelihood points that they are stronger. Basically for Supreme Kai to be that much stronger than Piccolo would put him in SSJ Gohan territory.
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East Kaioshin vs. Piccolo - Page 16

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