re: New Interview with Akira Toriyama - Page 5 - Dragonball

Forum Options:	my.neoforum register members prefs search faq

Topic: New Interview with Akira Toriyama Options: Print subscribe remove NeoPM
Threads List « Next Newest Next Oldest »
DaSavage Guns don't kill people. I kill people. true seeker total posts: 1224 since: Dec 2009	Apr 06, 10 at 6:31am ^ re: New Interview with Akira Toriyama
	Log in to remove this sponsored message quote Uhm Which is why it's a theory and not a fact. Same goes for your theory. ;P All there is is what's there. That isn't how it works. You don't make a declaration of how things work that go against what everyone believes, and think you can get away without providing anything foolproof to make it stand on it's own legs. All in all, if evilicity dictated the GD's effectiveness, it would've been mentioned somewhere in the story, or at least in one of the guides. It's in none of those. What is clearly presented (and stated) is whether the attack is strong enough or not. If that wasn't it's driving force, the amount of power put into it would be negligible. After all, Kid Buu is 100% evil, so wouldn't the attack 100% destroy him, no matter how much power is put into it?
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
Advertisement Neoseeker	^ Sponsored message

	Log in or register to remove this sponsored message
Uhm just getting started! total posts: 100 since: Mar 2010	Apr 06, 10 at 6:40am ^ re: New Interview with Akira Toriyama
	quote DaSavage quote Uhm Which is why it's a theory and not a fact. Same goes for your theory. ;P All there is is what's there. That isn't how it works. You don't make a declaration of how things work that go against what everyone believes, and think you can get away without providing anything foolproof to make it stand on it's own legs. All in all, if evilicity dictated the GD's effectiveness, it would've been mentioned somewhere in the story, or at least in one of the guides. It's in none of those. What is clearly presented (and stated) is whether the attack is strong enough or not. If that wasn't it's driving force, the amount of power put into it would be negligible. After all, Kid Buu is 100% evil, so wouldn't the attack 100% destroy him, no matter how much power is put into it? It's a theory that's corroborated by what has happened in the series and movies. I said the potency of the bomb could be dependent on the amount of evil in that person. As in, the spirit bomb Goku made against Vegeta could've been enough ki-wise, but because Vegeta wasn't completely evil, it didn't kill him. I never said it invalidates having an energy standard.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
DaSavage Guns don't kill people. I kill people. true seeker total posts: 1224 since: Dec 2009	Apr 06, 10 at 6:43am ^ re: New Interview with Akira Toriyama
	Movies aren't canon, so stop citing them if you want to be taken seriously. quote Uhm As in, the spirit bomb Goku made against Vegeta could've been enough ki-wise, but because Vegeta wasn't completely evil, it didn't kill him. And if this were the case (it would be quite worthy of being noted, like how pure-heartedness was noted in that same chapter), it would've been brought up at least once. We only have comments about it's power to base our views on, and hypotheticals are meaningless in light of that.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
Uhm just getting started! total posts: 100 since: Mar 2010	Apr 06, 10 at 6:47am ^ re: New Interview with Akira Toriyama
	quote DaSavage Movies aren't canon, so stop citing them if you want to be taken seriously. quote Uhm As in, the spirit bomb Goku made against Vegeta could've been enough ki-wise, but because Vegeta wasn't completely evil, it didn't kill him. And if this were the case (it would be quite worthy of being noted, like how pure-heartedness was noted in that same chapter) How would the Z warriors know? Pure-hearted causing no damage was a good and relevant tip. Also a reason for the theory since 'evil' chars proved to also be able to touch and manipulate/move the spirit bomb. What we do know is that the totally evil chars were the only ones that died from a spirit bomb shot. The others survived it even when the bomb was massive. And we know it only affects evil people. The rest is left to theory. It's never layed out specifically what the spirit bomb does. Why it contorts certain chars certain ways, etc.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
DaSavage Guns don't kill people. I kill people. true seeker total posts: 1224 since: Dec 2009	Apr 06, 10 at 6:53am ^ re: New Interview with Akira Toriyama
	quote Uhm How would the Z warriors know? Pure-hearted causing no damage was a good and relevant tip. Why would Kaio leave out such a crucial bit of information about the attack? Especially when he had already told Goku the bit about pure-heartedness? quote What we do know is that the totally evil chars were the only ones that died from a spirit bomb shot. And we know it only affects evil people. Uh...what? No, we don't know this at all. And again, we can't just make things up based on coincidences, and when there's no reason to believe it in the first place.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
Uhm just getting started! total posts: 100 since: Mar 2010	Apr 06, 10 at 6:59am ^ re: New Interview with Akira Toriyama
	quote DaSavage quote Uhm How would the Z warriors know? Pure-hearted causing no damage was a good and relevant tip. Why would Kaio leave out such a crucial bit of information about the attack? Especially when he had already told Goku the bit about pure-heartedness? quote What we do know is that the totally evil chars were the only ones that died from a spirit bomb shot. And we know it only affects evil people. Uh...what? No, we don't know this at all. And again, we can't just make things up based on coincidences, and when there's no reason to believe it in the first place. It's not a crucial piece of information to the attack itself. It gathers the energy of the earth into a strike against an evil person. That doesn't change. You'd also only use it on an evil person, so it's kind of a given. Also though, Gohan was able to bounce it back at Vegeta based on it only affecting evil people. That's why we can "know" this within reason. If you don't believe that Goku's words isn't related to the effects of the spirit bomb on a person, then we'd have to concede that Goku was wrong about it. Gohan wasn't the only one to touch and handle a spirit bomb. Buu and Frieza touched it and moved it (well technically the ball moved Frieza, but he still touched it and they moved), and those two were evil people.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
DaSavage Guns don't kill people. I kill people. true seeker total posts: 1224 since: Dec 2009	Apr 06, 10 at 7:08am ^ re: New Interview with Akira Toriyama
	quote Uhm It's not a crucial piece of information to the attack itself. Yeah, it is. By your logic, it's certainly crucial in dictating the attack's effectiveness on your opponents. If anything the bouncing back comment would've been far less necessary to have been made. Yet, it's never substantiated in the story, in any way. quote Also though, Gohan was able to bounce it back at Vegeta based on it only affecting evil people. No. You can reflect it if your heart has 0 evil in it. If it only affected evil people, Goku wouldn't tell his fellow good guys to take cover every time he used it. Satan nor Vegeta are pure-hearted, but it would've hurt them; They still weren't evil. It's not as black and white as you're purporting.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
G_O_G_E_T_A Vocare Ad Regnum (moderator) Dragonball total posts: 16066 since: May 2006	Apr 06, 10 at 5:32pm ^ re: New Interview with Akira Toriyama
	quote Using only the manga it doesn't do as much to strongly suggest one way or the other. But it does tell us some things. It wouldn't affect Gohan because no evil was in his heart, yet Frieza and Buu were able to 'catch it' and move with it. So Gohan's scenario back then didn't reflect being able to touch or deflect the spirit bomb necessarily... as those seen as evil have been able to touch it and move it also. It's the reason Goku had to keep pushing it toward Kid Buu, otherwise Buu would've sent it somewhere else. Frieza hardly caught it though, he was overwhelmed completely by it, and Buu was able to force it back because Goku didn't have enough ki to force it down upon him properly, this was stated. And Gohan being able to bounce off the Genki Dama because he was pure-hearted was also stated in pretty much those exact words if memory serves me correctly...
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
Uhm just getting started! total posts: 100 since: Mar 2010	Apr 07, 10 at 4:41am ^ re: New Interview with Akira Toriyama
	quote DaSavage quote Uhm It's not a crucial piece of information to the attack itself. Yeah, it is. By your logic, it's certainly crucial in dictating the attack's effectiveness on your opponents. If anything the bouncing back comment would've been far less necessary to have been made. Yet, it's never substantiated in the story, in any way. quote Also though, Gohan was able to bounce it back at Vegeta based on it only affecting evil people. No. You can reflect it if your heart has 0 evil in it. If it only affected evil people, Goku wouldn't tell his fellow good guys to take cover every time he used it. Satan nor Vegeta are pure-hearted, but it would've hurt them; They still weren't evil. It's not as black and white as you're purporting. How evil a person is is something they wouldn't be able to control or care about. They're evil enough, and it's come down to using it (spirit bombs have always been last resorts). Analyzing how evil they are after that attack fails would be a waste of time and a minor point to the major problem they'd have. Even if the spirit bomb itself is harmless, explosions are always dangerous, debris can and have injured Z fighters that have been too close. You always take cover during a boom. The bouncing back comment is substantial to show Gohan had nothing to fear in touching it... but more importantly, getting hit by it. Because obviously, those with evil in their heart can touch it too without it affecting them either. quote quote G_O_G_E_T_A Frieza hardly caught it though, he was overwhelmed completely by it, and Buu was able to force it back because Goku didn't have enough ki to force it down upon him properly, this was stated. And Gohan being able to bounce off the Genki Dama because he was pure-hearted was also stated in pretty much those exact words if memory serves me correctly... Comparing his encounter with Vegeta, he definitely caught it. He was overwhelmed by it though, very much so, but it didn't hurt him until it truly hit him. Vegeta didn't catch it and was consequently affected on impact. Frieza and Buu weren't this way... proving that contact alone may not be what Goku was telling Gohan about (regarding a pure heart). Buu would've deflected the spirit bomb had Goku not have given the push it needed to break through his defenses. It's the fact that Buu was able to force it back (and revealing the necessity of Goku's push for the attack to work)that shows Goku's quote regarding a pure heart was either wrong or referring to damage and not actual contact.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
DaSavage Guns don't kill people. I kill people. true seeker total posts: 1224 since: Dec 2009	Apr 07, 10 at 5:03am ^ re: New Interview with Akira Toriyama
	Meh, I'm just content that no one else will ever believe this. :l ------------------- youtube.com/dasavage68 Visit or else.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
Uhm just getting started! total posts: 100 since: Mar 2010	Apr 07, 10 at 5:13am ^ re: New Interview with Akira Toriyama
	lol, it's just a theory. I'm not claiming it's true. If what I'm suggesting is not the case, then what Goku said regarding how the bomb affects those with a pure heart was wrong, that's all. But it's Goku, he can be wrong.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
Weskur forum junky total posts: 76 since: Feb 2012	Feb 21, 12 at 7:00pm ^ re: New Interview with Akira Toriyama
	Goku stated those with evil hearts cannot deflect the genki dama. If we go with your theory, all they needed was a bit of ki to destroy Kid Buu since he is pure evil. Freiza and Vegeta didn't die because the genki dama was weak. With Buu, all he did was hold it but he never deflected it, so we can't assume he would have deflected it. Now back in topic, did Akira really mean 10x? As we know, his memory is fuzzy, does he even remember what KK Goku used? It's clear now SSJ was not suppose to be 50x base, but we can't be so sure if it was 10x either. Could be 30x or 40x. The only reason we have debates like this is because of the Daizenshuu, where did all these PL come from? Not from the manga. With Frieza's first transformation he said he was over 1 million, he never said the exact number so all these numbers I hear people say, I don't pay attention to them.
	quote quick quote edit quick edit del posts in thread report
[All dates in (PST) time]	Threads List « Next Newest Next Oldest »

Thread title	From	Last replied
Now searching...

New Interview with Akira Toriyama - Page 5

Hobbies

Sports

Skills

Chat and Lounges

Game Platforms

Mobile Platforms

Top Core Games

Top Portable Games

Top Communities