re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR - Page 7 - Marvel: War of Heroes

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Yusuke Raizen Spirit Detective forum fever total posts: 364 since: Dec 2012 (+0 / -0)	Mar 05, 13 at 9:42am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	Log in to remove this sponsored message quote Darthhawk quote Yusuke Raizen Hm no idea what that 15% was their for lol did you check the numbers did I actually add 15% in or did I just mistype it there? Also I have 2 people confirming surfer is 20% at level 10 where are you getting 19% if you have ss of this I would love to see it: Too late will post ss when I get to computer but it is absolutely 20%. I couldn't imagine where the 15% came from, but isn't there instead any other boost. But, really, it doesn't mind. I have no idea how I was so sure OB at sk 10 was 19%; I only know I was sure XD. BTW, my OBs are sk5 'only'. And if OB is 20%, then you got the point, OBs win where Thors loose. And I forgot in previous message, thanks a lot for all the job! No prob and thanks for your contribution... Pesky random 15% to all!!! lol ------------------- "The only thing a man truly owns is his integrity" - anon IGN - YusukeRaizen KIK - YusukeRaizen Line - YusukeRaizen Kakao - YusukeRaizen
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Darthhawk Neo-newbie total posts: 6 since: Oct 2012 (+0 / -0)	Mar 08, 13 at 9:30am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	Hi again! Suppose you have the calc done, so; how does scraper affect? I mean, the real factor that makes OB better is the extra base atk; with the highest base atk card in wings (Leg Hulk) total atk isn't enough for Thors to break the gap. But I suppose, as higher atk is before boost, it will finally break. Interested too if it applies. Let me explain again; I like to go with theories as much as any other, but what I'm really interested at is not if it could beat a theorical new leg def card; how many scraper is needed to beat current best def deck? (5 caps with 3xsk10 cap proc.) And, is there any difference between Thors and OBs to beat that deck? Thanks a lot!!
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Yusuke Raizen Spirit Detective forum fever total posts: 364 since: Dec 2012 (+0 / -0)	Mar 08, 13 at 9:40am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	quote Darthhawk Hi again! Suppose you have the calc done, so; how does scraper affect? I mean, the real factor that makes OB better is the extra base atk; with the highest base atk card in wings (Leg Hulk) total atk isn't enough for Thors to break the gap. But I suppose, as higher atk is before boost, it will finally break. Interested too if it applies. Let me explain again; I like to go with theories as much as any other, but what I'm really interested at is not if it could beat a theorical new leg def card; how many scraper is needed to beat current best def deck? (5 caps with 3xsk10 cap proc.) And, is there any difference between Thors and OBs to beat that deck? Thanks a lot!! I think this very data is posted in this thread or my other one, it's only relevant at 10% scrapper where x5 surfer wins and x5 Thor loses, will verify when at my computer. ------------------- "The only thing a man truly owns is his integrity" - anon IGN - YusukeRaizen KIK - YusukeRaizen Line - YusukeRaizen Kakao - YusukeRaizen
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Shryker1 unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Mar 08, 13 at 10:22am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	I believe the next step is to do tests on Leg Ironfists. I don't have all the numbers with me, but at skill level 1, Leg Ironfists perform better than Thor. Not by a lot, by roughly 1k damage. The calculations I did were solely for 5x Leg Ironfists vs 5x SOA Thors, skill levels 1. Unfortunately, I am unsure as to how much the % increase is for Ironfists per skill level, so it is probabe that Thors may overtake that paltry amount of damage they lose by in fairly short accord. Off the top of my head, it was roughly like this. 50,000 (5x Thor) * 1.16 * 1.16 * 1.16 = 78044 60775 (5x Leg Ironfists) * .3 = 79007 Why .3? 3x procs for leg ironfists is equal to 150% increased damage from one ironfist. Spread that between the 5 ironfists and it is essentially a 30% boost. Another way to look at it is each ironfist that procs boosts the total by 10% (1/5 of 50%). The full equation would be 12155 * .5 * 3 + 12155 + 12155. Someone feel like doing some tests of what the increases to Leg IF are per skill level increase? Based on some of the other numbers, I wouldn't be surprised to see it at a 3% increase per skill level, give or take. Ignore my guest name, I didn't feel like logging in.
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JustinMWOH dangerous total posts: 172 since: Oct 2012 (+0 / -0)	Mar 08, 13 at 10:42am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	quote Shryker1 The full equation would be 12155 * .5 * 3 + 12155 + 12155. I think it would be: 12155 * 1.5 * 3 + 12155 + 12155 Iron Fist would be a rather poor card if it was a self degrade. Since IF is self boost to attack and defense, isn't it 48% instead of 50%? Doesn't really matter as IF still comes out on top, but it does narrow the gap quite a bit. 12155 * 1.48 * 3 + 12155 + 12155 = 78,278.2
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Shryker1 unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Mar 08, 13 at 10:46am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	quote JustinMWOH quote Shryker1 The full equation would be 12155 * .5 * 3 + 12155 + 12155. I think it would be: 12155 * 1.5 * 3 + 12155 + 12155 Iron Fist would be a rather poor card if it was a self degrade. Since IF is self boost to attack and defense, isn't it 48% instead of 50%? Doesn't really matter as IF still comes out on top, but it does narrow the gap quite a bit. 12155 * 1.48 * 3 + 12155 + 12155 = 78,278.2 Thank you for the correction, you are quite right. I was going off of http://marvel-war-of-heroes.wikia.com/wiki/Ability#Ability_Level, where it says extremely boosts to atk / def are 50%.
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iron mask Neo-newbie total posts: 9 since: Feb 2013 (+0 / -0)	Mar 15, 13 at 3:29am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	I think what is being argued here is at 0k def Thor> OB ss and at 60K def OB ss > Thor. So the useful bit of knowledge here would be at what def is Thor=ob ss. I am by no means a top player in the game but it is rare for me to find a 3 cap def let alone a 5 cap def. Alliance battles could even be included in that statement though the ob ss>Thor applies more often during these. When trying to get chains and chokers I don't even find that alignment def or alignment boosts are consistently utilized. Point being to the casual player a Thor will always give a 16% boost or better according to skill lvl. Where as the ob ss 12%+ degrade and subsequent degrade of opponents boost is largely dependent on the defense being formidable. So where does the balance of power shift is the question? Against a 30K def or a 50K def. I would not like to attempt the math and feel the fury of this forum rain down upon me for each mistake so I pose the question to the more capable and hope it can be answered. And thank you OP Yusuke Raizen for all that you do for this game.
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Jin18 Neo-newbie total posts: 2 since: Feb 2013 (+0 / -0)	Mar 15, 13 at 9:35am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	It doesn't matter where the break even point is. If they have < 60k defense post procs/bonuses you win with silver surfer. If they have > 60k defense surfer is better. The point being made is that it doesn't matter if you win by 100 or by 100k as long as you win. And 60k post procs isn't hard to hit.
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flyflyflyMD newseeker total posts: 16 since: Nov 2012 (+0 / -0)	Mar 20, 13 at 12:21am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	I believe what you said. In light of all the facts given, why is phoenix force ranked lower than hellfire ghostrider?
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jaysodelirious not-such-a-newbie total posts: 37 since: Feb 2013 (+0 / -0)	Mar 20, 13 at 12:27am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	quote flyflyflyMD I believe what you said. In light of all the facts given, why is phoenix force ranked lower than hellfire ghostrider? The only reason OB surfer is better is because his atk stats are higher than Thors. Hellfire is identical to phoenix's.
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flyflyflyMD newseeker total posts: 16 since: Nov 2012 (+0 / -0)	Mar 20, 13 at 12:33am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	quote jaysodelirious quote flyflyflyMD I believe what you said. In light of all the facts given, why is phoenix force ranked lower than hellfire ghostrider? The only reason OB surfer is better is because his atk stats are higher than Thors. Hellfire is identical to phoenix's. So the only reason ob is better is because of the base attack? So degrade is not better than boost at equal base stats?
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Quick reply unwashed heathen (guest) IP: Logged	Mar 20, 13 at 3:46am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	At equal values degrade is better. (20% degrade > 20% boost). But since we are comparing a degrade all vs an alignment buff the difference in percentages make them equal or very close depending on skill level. (12% degrade ~= 13.5% boost, 17% boost ~= 20.5% boost, 20% degrade == 25% boost) So you can just straight up compare base stats in these cases. Thats also probably why we don't have an extreme alignment debuff (30% degrade ~= 42% buff) Also a skill 10 magneto/red skulls (should've been cyclopes too) 24% degrade is ~= 31.5% boost.
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Jestevez07 newseeker total posts: 14 since: Feb 2013 (+0 / -0)	Mar 23, 13 at 8:05am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	GREAT THREAD! thanks for the info im sure it was a process to conduct the test cases enough times to get a meaningful sample size.
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Nexis619 Neo-newbie total posts: 1 since: Apr 2013 (+0 / -0)	Apr 08, 13 at 12:34pm ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	quote Yusuke Raizen quote iamrubocop forgive my ignorance if there is any, but doesn't thors boost stack if it procs multiple times, whereas degrades don't stack? very interesting post i'd love to hear other peoples opinions too Yes that is correct: 100 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 133.1 100 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 72.9 100-133.1 > 100-72.9 but when you factor the defensive boost in lets say at the same % 100 base * 1.1 = 133.1 again for the non degraded def so 133.1 = 133.1 or a tie 72.9 1.11.1*1.1 = 97 or the offense wins Now your going to tell me thors boost is 16, caps is 16, and surfers is only 12... which I already said I knew but surfer also has 1050 more attack which has to be factored in, which ends up changing things I just want to ask a quick question about this math to make sure my numbers are correct. Does the OB SS have a diminishing return value if all things are equal? Example: 5 cap wall with ability level 1 VS. 3 OB SS and 2 Leg Wolv all at ability lev 1. 5 Cap defense wall at ability lev one have a total of 60300 def points before procs. (not including any other bonuses, ie adapter or leadership position). 3 OB SS and 2 Leg Wolve have a base ATK of 59236. (not including any other bonuses.) Now.. 1st OB procs.. at 12% deg to Cap wall. That equals -7236 points from cap wall. So now the 2nd OB procs... (here comes the question)... does the 12%deg from the 2nd proc reduce from the original 60300(hold the value of -7236)... or does the 2nd OB proc reduce from the 53064 remainder def points from the 1st proc (which would give it a value of -6368 from cap wall)?
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danowensemail Neo-newbie total posts: 1 since: Feb 2013 (+0 / -0)	Apr 11, 13 at 2:05am ^ re: UR OB SS > UR SOA THOR
	can i see the spreadsheet pls?
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