community GD: XXIII This Isn't How I Left My Kingdom! - Page 23

That's how most people are. >:
I'm not entirely sure what to think of it. She made a few good points imo.
Any mention of the subject is usually brushed off as overreacting.

skimmed it, best bit was her trying to make out enjoying tits is a bad thing. silly wimen

quote Asyilem

Just read this. Thoughts?

My thoughts would be that the writer has no idea how marketing works and is trying to put blame anywhere it can be put.

She has some good points but they aren't construed in the greatest of arguments.

By this I mean that the gaming industry for decades has always had a larger male fanbase than female...this isn't to say "No woman is allowed to play games or that games shouldn't cater or have females in mind" but to use "the community would rather see tits than a game run better" is somewhat drowned out when you consider around 70% of the gaming community to be adolescent males.

In fact re-reading her article...her issue isn't so much with Skyrim or games it's the fact that society for decades has always given a clear image of what both genders "should" do...now before anyone shouts at me, hear me out.

Through-out time, men did labouring jobs, they did construction and heavy lifting jobs as well as go to war and "put food on the table"...women were left to look after the children, care for the home and cook what was put on the table.

Again for decades that's how things were. Children always had the same set of toys and were taught certain things...boys got toy cars, cowboys and indians, cops and robbers and were taught how to hunt, fish and other such things. Girls got dolls, dress-up, cooking toys and generally anything that "cared" for others.

So with the above being the mindset for decades, it's really only been the 90's onwards where women have come into their own, where they have been given more jobs that were initially given to men to do, the female gaming society is constantly growing BUT that feeling will always be there and for some people they really do believe that women belong in the kitchen.

My point is...the writer is expecting decades of sexism to be fought with a couple of years of gaming...not going to happen, not when it's so easy to rile people up like her with simple comments like "You're too far from the kitchen"

Of course most women shrug those comments off, I've played with many women on shooters and some that I have no issue in saying "they kick my ass" and I would love a gaming community as a whole where gender is not an issue but there will always be some that will have an issue with it and unfortunately at this moment within this era...the female side of things is a minority...ergo not many game companies are willing to upset the majority of their possible profits...come on...can you really see Soul Calibur putting clothes on Ivy any time soon

p.s I also realise I could have said all that within less words but meh, it's almost 2am and I'm just spewing out thoughts

quote Asyilem

Any mention of the subject is usually brushed off as overreacting.

That's usually because most articles about sexism within games are over-reacting or they do not fight their corner in the most best of ways, using poor arguments for example.

By all means, I do not need tits in my games to play games, I have many female gamers as friends that kick my ass at games and currently dating a female gamer that has a better kill/death ratio in Battlefield 3 than I do...but to try and explain why someone complaining about sexism is wrong...is quite difficult.

Their cause isn't wrong, sexism is completely stupid in my opinion but for example to use "community downloads a nude mod more than a performance mod" is just as stupid as the thing they are fighting against...if the argument was "Community downloads a nude mod more than an armour mod that will benefit them in battle" then they would have more of a fight against it.

Why is that different? Simple...not everyone needs a performance mod to make their game better, my game runs just fine without tweaking it at all PLUS they are only highlighting one portion of the fanbase, the PC fanbase. So they are already condemning the console users to the same fate as they are giving the PC users in that same respect.

It's like those people that use Xfire to strengthen their argument about a game dying. They use xfire because it records the hours people play within a game, when they see that drop, they claim a game is dying. The reason Xfire is defunct in this aspect is that not everyone playing that game uses Xfire, ergo you are not getting the full picture for that game.

By all means, if someone truly pops up an article about sexism that I can agree with...I will support it but again, they are fighting decades of "Boys should be like this and girls should be like that" mentality

Agreed but again some of my favorite protagonists are the ones you dont know all that well,John 117, Samus Aran. etc

I plan on being a game writer, which can do something for it. It's not the reason why I want that job though.

Sex sells, and as long as it does, games will continue to sell it, sadly.

Also, I feel that this is relevant.

My biggest problem with the whole, sex sells gaming marketing ploy, is that a lot of females are solely represented by the size of their bust, waist and behind. It's only taken into account later that they might be talented with bashing ones skull in with a hammer. Or having the intelligence to enchant things, or call upon the gods for wisdom and guidance. None of that matters because sex sells and the sex that they are selling is so upfront and in your face that the other aspects of the female are lost, or at least forgotten while eyes stare idly at the goodies.

On the same note however, when someone, such as myself, hypersexualizes the males in gaming, it's viewed as gross, wrong and inappropriate. The only thing I'm doing is viewing males how a vast majority of the gaming world views females. Why is it so wrong that I do it? For example, there's a nude Filkas/Varkas mod for Skyrim on that nexus site or whatever (It's been awhile forgive me) and a lot of the comments are just, presumably straight males, stating things such as: "Why would you do this?" "Ew." "CANNOT BE UNSEEN?!" etc, etc. Meanwhile, they can go and download an airbrushed Lydia with porcelain skin in a skimpy outfit and not see how it's the exact. same. thing.

And, just because I'm rambling, and I've read articles like this multiple times, and I agree with them quite obviously. I think it's pretty dumb on the male spectrum that a lot of males are viewed as valuable just because they are muscled and more masculine. As if being less physically inclined is a bad thing.

But, like SJ said, it's years and years of a social structure being put under fire and it's not going to change just because a few people are upset that Seria has big boobs and people enjoy taking panty shots of her. I mean, it's not really my business, but if you are going to swap Daedric armor for a chainmail bra and thong and not expect me to say something about how your girls nipples are probably bleeding and the fact she has little to no protection against things attacking her, or the weather, you need to evaluate life and figure out exactly what it is you want out of this game because I could gladly point you in the direction of pornhub if you are so inclined to think with your dick.

quote Asyilem

What you're saying does make sense. I'm aware of how marketing works. It's really hard to fight off tradition. Just wishing it was different. You might not have a problem playing a game without playable female characters, but I've always found it hard to get into a game where I'm not playing as my own gender. I tend to really get into the RP spirit.
Again, I have no problem with nudity. Body parts are just body parts as far as I'm concerned. It'd be hypocritical of me to be against that considering how my art features a lot of skin to show.
I just want all the females to have better character development and significant roles. That's my preference. It's in my opinion that the majority of all characters have failing personalities in gaming.

quote ShadowJ

p.s I also realise I could have said all that within less words but meh, it's almost 2am and I'm just spewing out thoughts

Not a problem. I was hoping for long responses like this.

To be in all fairness, if a game gives me a chance to play as a female I will play as one...solely for the fact that I don't have to look at a man's ass for 25+ plus hours when in 3rd person mode but I do love games like Mass Effect that don't just give a strong male lead but also a strong female lead

Mass Effect also brings in "logical" armour, in the sense that women aren't wearing skimpy stuff during battle...out of battle, hell they can run nude for all I care and yes I admit, skimpy battle armour is cool but only in the "eye-catching" appealing sense.

For example: Red Sonja is famous for wearing scale-chainmail bikini...the fact she is also a redhead and showing off skin...yeah that's me sold

Like Twilight says, sex sells...has done for decades. It's very evident in the 1950's and 1960's when you have famous actresses smoking on the big screen erotically just to sell a pack of cigarettes.

It's the same reason why women in bikinis drape themselves over fancy new sports cars and that mentality will never change..of course the reverse is done with males in adverts too

Going back to Skyrim, when I look at it, I don't really see sexism...in any Elder Scrolls game I don't see sexism at all because the game aims for neutrality...the whole point is that you create your Hero or Heroine and regardless of gender, treated the same...they may only get treated differently due to race...which again was what I loved about Morrowind because not everyone loved you, unlike in bloody Oblivion...ugh but won't get into that

I do agree there should be more strong female leads but sadly in a world where profit matters, a game with a strong female lead will fall into the pit of "how can we get male gamers to play this as well"

Best example would be Lollipop Chainsaw...a strong female lead but is cast within skimpy outfits and cheerleader stereotypes. Even Tomb Raider fell for it, I mean if she was indeed real we all know she would either need a damn good sports bra would she would be knocking herself out with her bust...this is why the tomb raider reboot they are doing involves a more gritty and violent plot...they have a strong female character that is "somewhat" normal in appearance now, she doesn't wear skimpy outfits and she can kick ass but without that gritty violence, most males probably wouldn't touch it.

I wasn't so much concerning myself with sexism in Skyrim. I was more onto games in general. |:
But yeah. It's going to be a while.