The current state of PvP, what are your thoughts?

I've been recently thinking about this, and even went as far as to extensively test the waters (so to speak). PvP, to me, seems to be little more than a bad joke at times, and sometimes it's almost enough to make me think it's not even worth the effort to be online.

The reason why? I decided to invade in every area possible of the game, not with the intention of killing everything and everyone, but just I scope out what's happening. Nine out of ten hosts were wielding lightning, chaos, or some other weapon that isn't obtainable until NG+, or sets that require one to be in NG++ (shield and sword of Artorias for example), while still being in NG. The way I was able to identify it as NG, is through phantoms that had been summoned, with appropriate area and level equipment fighting enemies.

I know some people use the bottomless box glitch as a kind of safety precaution against grievers (which has risen exponentially in number), but the amount of players that use this to gangbang legitimate invaders, i.e, invaders who are suited out in reasonable level equipment for the area they're invading (lightning +4 or chaos +2 to +3 weapons at Anor Londo), are being horribly punished for trying to play the game fairly. I had an invader recently on a new toon I had to create (courtesy of data loss on all of my game saves), wielding a Lightning Zweihander, which was no big deal. As soon as the tide turned on them when I started whittling down their health with a fire +5 Uchigatana, they proceeded to start spamming Wrath of the Gods, and fished for backstabs. This was all in the Depths, and despite having sent the invader packing (along with added gestures to send the message "you suck"), it seems like this is the way PvP is going. Before it was just the forest, and sunlight-less Anor Londo, now it's everywhere, even the Burg and Parish. I mean, come on, the Burg? So much for co-op there.

Anyway, on to the next point. Darkmoon Blades. Somehow the majority now have a sense of self-righteousness, in which they feel invading a level 20 or lower griever makes them good at PvP? I can invade a level 20 player and guarantee victory if I'm (at least) five times that level too, nothing special, and certainly nothing different.

Darkwraiths of the red soapstone variety seem to have diminished in number, but perhaps that's just the servers I end up on? I'd say I have to offer most praise when it comes to duels to Darkwraiths, they invade with the intent to kill, but I've encountered more of these that will either even the odds before getting down to business, or allow a duel to finish before attacking. I was just passing through the forest solo to kill Sif when I was invaded by two forest covenant members, both used magic, and neither wanted a duel (fair enough, it's to be expected from the forest). I then got invaded by a Darkwraith, who ran to attack me, but noticed the two covenant members trying to assault me with nearly endless streams of magic attacks. The Darkwraith then proceeded to turn their attention to one of the covenant members, while I dealt with the other. After which, we got ready for our duel, and when I noticed the Darkwraith didn't heal before we got started, I dropped a few humanities before we began. It was a good duel too I might add, ended in a double K.O, but it was fun, and fair.

So, I guess the real point to this is; what do you think of the state of PvP these days? Does it annoy you to see glitchers getting end game equipment without having put it any solid effort?

Personally, it does irritate me to a degree. Perhaps this is because I had several toons who had run through the game at level 10 and lower (pre-patch), and worked my way towards the high level equipment. Honestly, I think I'd rather see the dragon head glitch back in effect, and the bottomless box glitch wiped from existence. Might be useful for identifying the worthy opponents from the glitchers.

quote jomoh71

This whole mule thing is to me a complete mystery. As you say if you want to PvP with all the fantastic gear available, then run through the game and collect it. If you are not able to do that, then you shouldn't have the gear. I like co-op and do a lot and when doing that you need to expect to be invaded every now and then, but at low levels I expect the opponent not to pack gear as if they passed the game several times.

Bolded part of the quote, is exactly the part which irritates me. My earliest farming videos in Dark Souls were pre-patch (I think they were at least), in which I had a SL10 witch toon with some pretty powerful gear for such a low level. I clocked over 200 hours on that toon alone, and it's easily the most recognisable from the videos I uploaded. I played the entire game through, and started work on recording a Let's Play for NG+ at level 10, but now, just about anyone can complete NG at level 1 if they use the glitch. That's fine if it's for PvE, some friends might need the help, but the spill over into PvP is what it hurt the most.

Dragon head glitch is small fry in comparison, because SL700+ doesn't mean a thing if you don't have the gear or skill, now all it takes is a lucky backstab from +5 elemental weapons and a mid-level toon is half done (I usually like a bit of PvP around the SL60-80 mark), low-level PvP (with fire weapons usually) just isn't worth the bother.

A bit of an update on this: while I still think that too much is broken, I have come up with a build that, when used correctly, destroys all of the aforementioned glitchers and cheaters.

Keep a Faith / Dex build in your saved toons, because a PGS (Painting Guardian Sword) buffed build has an attack rating of 747 at +15 with Sunlight Blade at 40 Dexterity and Faith, and this thing attacks insanely fast. The strong attack dance throws opponents off, and also makes it possible to dodge some attacks during mid-attack, the range can be a killer if you don't close the distance fast, but Tranquil Walk of Peace can fix that (be fair though, don't use it unless it's a 2v1 or 3v1).

What was the AR on the PGS with Darkmoon Blade at +3, jbh?

What are your Dexterity and Faith stats at jbh? Still haven't moved my PGS build from SL101 yet, and I still need to get into NG+ for Darkmoon Blade covenant.

quote Aura

The reason why? I decided to invade in every area possible of the game, not with the intention of killing everything and everyone, but just I scope out what's happening. Nine out of ten hosts were wielding lightning, chaos, or some other weapon that isn't obtainable until NG+, or sets that require one to be in NG++ (shield and sword of Artorias for example), while still being in NG. The way I was able to identify it as NG, is through phantoms that had been summoned, with appropriate area and level equipment fighting enemies.

While it is certainly possible that most are exploiting to get their gear, there is a legitimate explanation for some of the gear that could be seen in NG. Cooperative play. Since I've been playing Dark Souls, I've always summoned (and been summoned by) my friend for clearing zones, boss fights, etc. Any time he needed gear for a build, I was happy to provide him with it, and vice versa. I needed a couple demon titanite, he needed a slab, et cetera.

Unless, of course, you feel cooperative play (and exchanging items between two legitimate characters) is exploiting, many NG+ weapons are available to players in NG.

I used the mule from beating the game to make a few pvp characters with the weapons I want without having to playthru with them. I just leveled them up to 120 real quick and built them around the weapons I like to pvp with. I never try and hunt low level players. I would not have the time to make their weapons by collecting and upgrading them as I spend my time on my original player who I level up and equip naturally without glitching. I feel it's ok to mule for making a variety of pvp only characters.

Is there a trainer mode in the game for PC?

Ok, and people use that to play PvP, with unlimited life or whatever I presume? I really have a hard time understanding people buying hard games and then cheat in order to be able to get through them or worse cheat to spoil the game for others.