battle [Planning] Official Neoseeker Tournament Restrictions - Page 7

quote Team Hydro Aura

quote Majestic Shadow

Tiers are really useless.It's like Smogon Just put labels on Pokemon. Stupid Idea. I agree with the "wait it out" tactic. Just use light weight, warp, jump glide, or super speed as a getway tactic.

You've got to be kidding me... -_-" They ban Pokémon to keep the metagame BALANCED, the same exact reason that we're trying to ban some powers here. I don't want to be forced to have one of those powers on my power board, I want to be able to keep it the way it is, and everyone should be able to do that.

quote DunnoBro

As we evolve as a community, and universally create better weapons like these, we'll continue to find more and more horrifying combinations, and quite honestly, the bans will never end.

That's just the way it works for most every game. Again, it's all to keep the metagame balanced so we all don't turn into clones. 'Cause that's really no fun.. :/

The thing is, they ban only AFTER they become problems. No powers, combinations, or strategies are problems yet.

Banning powers before they even doing anything doesn't balance the game, it tacks on pointless rules which will eventually be less balanced than it originally was without bans.

quote Team Hydro Aura

DunnoBro, looking at this list, they're already problems online.

Against the randoms online, sure. And that list is ridiculously long, and there are lots of other more broken combos that aren't on that list compared to ones which are. Like i said, if there are so many valid competitive strategies, not even taking into account the ones not on that list, can you really call any specific combination "broken"? I think not.

Obviously one good player using those skills can crush a room of the garbage randoms. (Hell, i can win ffa with a 100 value ogre club. They're pure trash) But in tournament settings, with SPECIALIZED rules for organized play? Nothing has been a problem as there haven't been nearly enough to determine what is a problem.

Theorizing is fine and all, but to go so far as to ban so many combinations, you're just going to end up keep banning everything that just happens to be good.

Like i said, have the tournaments, and THEN decide what needs to be done. That's how every SUCCESSFUL gaming community does things. Don't kill the strategies before they even start.

quote Team Hydro Aura

So you're saying that, if you were in a tourney against these strategies, you'd still somehow pull out a win. You'd still somehow dodge the invisible club shot, the slip shotted staff hits, the Play Dead abusers, the Trolltracks, the Aries/Libra melee. Not just you, but your ENTIRE TEAM. Yeah, I don't buy that.

No, I'm not saying that. And I don't know where you got that, either.

But yes, i could dodge all that with ipad+3 evasion +4 and stamina +4. But that's irrelevant anyway.

What I'm saying is, that you can't justify banning anything without it first proving that it needs to be banned. Obviously something like "press x to win" would be banned, but there's nothing like that here. And personally, the fact that the banlist is so long is a bit ironic since with so many valid strategies, they'd all be topping/doing well. And there's definitely more powerful strategies than some of the ones listed. Honestly, powers generally are a poor man's weapon.

What you people need to realize is that this isn't one of your games balanced in minimalism, but rather in extremism.

quote Team Hydro Aura

quote DunnoBro

quote Team Hydro Aura

DunnoBro, looking at this list, they're already problems online.

Against the randoms online, sure. And that list is ridiculously long, and there are lots of other more broken combos that aren't on that list compared to ones which are. Like i said, if there are so many valid competitive strategies, not even taking into account the ones not on that list, can you really call any specific combination "broken"? I think not.

I got it from this.

Again, the problem is that it forces you to change the way you play to accommodate it. That's the reason that it should be banned, and you can't deny that these combinations do force you to carry a certain power. People shouldn't have to do that, but now I'm just repeating myself ._. OH and,

quote DunnoBro

Obviously something like "press x to win" would be banned, but there's nothing like that here.

Trade-Off while the angel is out

Know what else forces you to play differently?
An opponent trying to win.

Oh I'm SO SORRY that you might actually need to use some DEFENSE. (In either your power set, or modifiers... which you SHOULD have anyway)

And no, those powers do not force you to do anything. Good players, and strategies do.

Your argument is flawed, you think balance is being able to win by using any random combination of weapons/powers you want? No, it's just having a wide variety of valid strategies, weapons, and powers.

You wouldn't call pokemon unbalanced because you can't beat a guy's OU team with some random assortment of UUs, would you?

The same idea applies.

This is another example of goalpost moving. Also, as I've already said, there are tons of other ways to demolish the angel other than trade-off.

A simple energy charged babel club, staff, or anything with above average strength and range, really. Oh! And of course freezing on a powerful melee combo weapon would be enough to kill the angel in one go.

Like I said, you're just theorizing. And even against trade-off, the angel could have warp, lightweight, playing dead, bumblebee, or hell... Just good dodging skills. That isn't "press X and win"
It's a good strategy, that's all. If even that, really. As other powers could've delivered the same, if not better results without crippling your power board with a one-usage power.

Again I bring up the theory that trade-off is merely the poor man's weapon. I used it myself before i actually got good weapons.

DunnoBro now I REALLY want to battle just because I really want to see how good you are and your giving sound arguments. I guess we could do a tourney without rules but I dont get why we cant stop a problem before it starts. :l

quote solomon514

DunnoBro now I REALLY want to battle just because I really want to see how good you are and your giving sound arguments. I guess we could do a tourney without rules but I dont get why we cant stop a problem before it starts. :l

I never wanted a tournament without rules... just no bans.
Ex. TLG of 1500 for LvD. Not only does this pretty much ruin the trade-off concept, but the real reason for it is that it rewards using lower weapon values more than the standard. As well as rewarding weapons with less reliance on powers, or properly divvying out power uses. Also, I feel a longer, more forgiving match will leave less room for flukes.

FFAs should be longer too, but I'm unsure of just how much.

And sure, gimme your FC. I'm making dinner atm though. 3308-4781-6052

Since all this arguing is going nowhere how about trial and error matches to see what strategies upsurp the gameplay.

What they did with powers in kid icarus is like what yugioh does with cards, you see konami rushes out new cards with nifty effects, but they don't take the time to bother testing them out, and they aren't aware the OP strategies the new cards make. To an extent this is what happened in kid icarus, project Sora put in these cool powers, but didn't realize what they could do when used in a certain way, or with other powers